My early 2008 black Macbook is probably the worst. $1,500 for 2GB of RAM and a crappy integrated X3100 that struggles with Unreal 2004.
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The most overrated Apple
- Thread starter jrasero23
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Funny that you emphasize on serious, while serious gaming on consoles is just plain ridiculous. Awful old hardware with bad graphics, storage and the controls make many games impossible to play. No, real gaming is mainly for (Windows) desktop computers. (and I'm not saying you can't do games on consoles)
It is not possible to play counter strike (or any other FPS) or Supreme Commander (or any other RTS) on consoles the way it is meant to be played.
And then you mention the Mac Pro, not affordable for almost everyone. Who needs a Xeon… who needs ECC ram. Sure some need it, great for them.
Yes I'm thinking of buying a Mac Pro, I want expansion, HDD space and some GPU power. But I'm someone that invests a lot of money in computers and I just don't like Windows…
Is it really that hard to see that Apple does not provide a computer for all tasks in the right price-segment?
Well said. The glare is a pain to deal with. I can handle it sometimes, but my computer needs have dropped considerably since buying the iMac last year. So the mini and a non-glare monitor will work for me until the iPad becomes completely self sufficient (no syncing/file sharing).
What a load of crap - why the hell are you hanging it from the wall? hell, if you're going to do dopey things, why not have it hanging from the ceiling, hook up a camera at the end of the bed and have kinky times with the misses for christ sake (iCeiling, the mirror on the ceiling for the 21st century).
I mean honestly - you've just re-enforced what I just said before; legitimate reasons for getting a Mac Pro would be "I need a big ass load of storage capacity" or "I have some PCI cards for hardware because I'm a muso" - they are legitimate reasons. Hanging crap on the wall isn't a legitimate reason, it is a person who needs their head closely examined for their sanity.
The specs weren't all that bad at the time - what was the biggest rip was the extra cost Apple imposed because it happened to be black; do they charge extra for pigment or something?
Dude seriously, relax. Its perfectly fine if he wants his monitor to hang from the wall. I think it'd be awesome because it'd be a tad higher than on my desk, which I find too low come to think of it. He may have other reasons.
You must be a very special person to know whats right for other people without bothering to learn the details of their situation. You are so sure youre right that you dont even consider the possibility that there may be circumstances that hadnt occurred to you or priorities that you dont understand. Fortunately, you have saved me the effort of trying to prove your limited intellect by putting it on display for the world to see. Well done.
I dont know why I bother trying to counter your obvious ignorance and arrogance, but Ill explain in case some of the higher life forms are interested
The computer we were replacing was a 17 G4 Powerbook, which my wife kept on her desk in the kitchen. The nice thing about the Powerbook was that it was relatively small and could be closed, which allowed her to set things (like paperwork) on top of it. In other words, it didnt clutter up her limited workspace much.
Once we determined it was time for an update, the first choice seemed to be the 17 MacbookPro. Nothing less than a 17 screen would work and the MacbookPro was the only Mac laptop that offered such a large screen. However, this setup was going to cost about $2000 or so. Pretty pricy, considering we rarely used the computer outside of the house and didnt really need a laptop.
So, I started to consider other possibilities. The key was that my wife wanted to keep as much free desk space as possible. An iMac seemed like a possibility, but that, along with a keyboard and mouse, on the desktop would take up too much space. I looked into hanging the iMac on the wall, but the 21 isnt designed for it and the 27 was just too big (in all dimensions).
Then we took a look at the Mac Mini. I found an incredibly thin, wall-mountable LED-lit LCD monitor, which I mounted on the wall. I ran the wires through the wall to the computer, which I mounted on the wall under the desk. The Apple wireless keyboard and Magic Mouse completed the setup. There are no wires on the desktop and the only hardware that clutters up her workspace are the KB and mouse. It is a very elegant and clean setup and my wife is very happy with the result. Plus, the entire setup cost less than $1000.
Feel free to chime in with another intelligent response so that we can all benefit from your vast font of wisdom.
In case anyone is interested, I thought I'd share some photos of our application for the Mac Mini (see post above for details). This is my wife's desk, which is pretty small. She wanted the least intrusive setup possible. The Mac Mini proved to be the perfect solution... for our needs.
Here's a photo of the desktop with monitor on the wall and wireless keyboard and mouse:
Here's a side view, showing how hanging the monitor on the wall really made a difference (note the backsplash, which would push a desktop sitting monitor even further forward):
Here's the computer mounted under the desk:
The Mac Mini isn't for everyone, but this under $1000 setup was perfect for us.
Here's a photo of the desktop with monitor on the wall and wireless keyboard and mouse:
Here's a side view, showing how hanging the monitor on the wall really made a difference (note the backsplash, which would push a desktop sitting monitor even further forward):
Here's the computer mounted under the desk:
The Mac Mini isn't for everyone, but this under $1000 setup was perfect for us.
I have to agree that you done good. And My sentence about morons and fools could very well be applied to myself. something about assuming things. and the odd couple come to mind.
Macbook
The mac mini is a very underpowered device for the cost. For me, the White MacBook has to be the least cost efficient device. The mac mini has the cool form factor and low power usage going for it. The MacBook is a crappy plastic laptop, which has known quality problems, yesterday's technology inside but at today's prices. I don't understand why you would buy one, at least not in the uk, the MacBook air or the 2010 mbp can be had at roughly the same price.
The mac mini is a very underpowered device for the cost. For me, the White MacBook has to be the least cost efficient device. The mac mini has the cool form factor and low power usage going for it. The MacBook is a crappy plastic laptop, which has known quality problems, yesterday's technology inside but at today's prices. I don't understand why you would buy one, at least not in the uk, the MacBook air or the 2010 mbp can be had at roughly the same price.
There may still be a (narrow) audience for the MacBook though, as it's cheaper than the MBP and stronger (in terms of CPU) than the MBA. Very narrow though, as spending 20% more will get you about twice the machine.
Very sleek indeed! I'd personally have a problem with inserting CD's/DVD's into it, but I guess your wife doesn't do that all that often.
Very sleek indeed! I'd personally have a problem with inserting CD's/DVD's into it, but I guess your wife doesn't do that all that often.
Okay, that's pretty effin' cool....
We think so; thanks.
Thanks, and I appreciate the words. Its not often someone backtracks on an online forum these days.
We only use the optical drive a handful of times a year, mostly for software install (and I have to do that). I could have installed it on one of the sidewalls of the knee hole if we felt strongly about it, but I knew it would be a rare occurrence.
Looks nice! My daughter uses the CD/DVD drive too much to do that. Not sure if they would want the monitor that far back either. Is that a full 24" countertop depth?
We have that same monitor. And maybe the same countertop. Is that Silestone Brazillian Brown?
I'm sure this setup wouldn't work for everyone. Seeing how seldom my wife used her optical drive on her laptop (few times a year, max), it seemed a good choice for us. She was much more concerned with having as clean and uncluttered a desktop as possible.
I'm not sure how deep the countertop is (I'm not home right now), but I doubt it's 24" (I'd guess about 20"). To my eye, the distance is perfect for a screen that size (21.5").
Not sure of the specs on the countertop (previous owners installed it). I know that it's quartz and it's closer to black.
Just a question...
Lol I posted this days ago and forgot about it. It was intended to generate friendly comments but I see this has turned into a bash fest
Lol I posted this days ago and forgot about it. It was intended to generate friendly comments but I see this has turned into a bash fest
Personally, I went with a mini for a few reasons. I never owned a Mac and did not want to spend over $1000 to try out OSX. I already owned an iPad which replaced most of my laptop needs. This left me with the mini as the only choice. Also, I figured that if I decided to get an iMac later, I could use the mini full time in my HT or move it to my bedroom TV setup. Because of it's size, it has a lot of flexibility in small spaces (as shown above) or on a HT rack.
As someone posted, there isn't really a "worst value" if you research and buy the computer that is best for your needs. Personally, I think the iMac is the best overall value, but if you spend all of your computer time away from your desktop, it does no hold nearly as much value to that type of person as a laptop would.
As someone posted, there isn't really a "worst value" if you research and buy the computer that is best for your needs. Personally, I think the iMac is the best overall value, but if you spend all of your computer time away from your desktop, it does no hold nearly as much value to that type of person as a laptop would.
I picked up a mini because after getting an iPad and iPhone, and using a Mac Pro in my business, I thought it was a good idea to switch from PC at home. Since picking up the iPad, I rarely used a traditional computer for anything other than syncing my iOS devices. (not counting professional use at my studio)
That said, I knew I wanted to move to the Mac as my "hub" machine. With the Mini, I was able to hook it up via HDMI to my HDTV in my living room. I can also control it with my iPad--no need to buy a keyboard/mouse etc. I'm not doing any serious work on it, it's purely there to act as my hub and now is also used very often to watch Netflix, iTunes movies/shows, web content etc. Because it goes right into my home theater setup, I can use it to feed my music content right from iTunes instead of having to plug in a separate device.
All the media uses were secondary discoveries. I didn't expect to get that much mileage out of that stuff. In the end I did and the Mini turned out to be a really great purchase for me.
Some make the argument that the specs are bad and thus it's overpriced. I don't really see it that way. It's form factor and HDMI output help it to fill very versatile roles. It supports 1080i output and looks absolutely gorgeous displaying on my TV. Would I have liked it to be cheaper, sure, but it's not and I'm ok with that. It met my needs and saved me money over buying an iMac or MBP (which I ended up buying later anyway as my needs changed) that wouldn't have done what I needed at the time.
Making the statement that the Mini is a waste of money because of the specs is like a trucker saying a VW Golf is a waste of money because he can't use it for work. It's all about what need or desire the machine is intended to fill.
That said, I knew I wanted to move to the Mac as my "hub" machine. With the Mini, I was able to hook it up via HDMI to my HDTV in my living room. I can also control it with my iPad--no need to buy a keyboard/mouse etc. I'm not doing any serious work on it, it's purely there to act as my hub and now is also used very often to watch Netflix, iTunes movies/shows, web content etc. Because it goes right into my home theater setup, I can use it to feed my music content right from iTunes instead of having to plug in a separate device.
All the media uses were secondary discoveries. I didn't expect to get that much mileage out of that stuff. In the end I did and the Mini turned out to be a really great purchase for me.
Some make the argument that the specs are bad and thus it's overpriced. I don't really see it that way. It's form factor and HDMI output help it to fill very versatile roles. It supports 1080i output and looks absolutely gorgeous displaying on my TV. Would I have liked it to be cheaper, sure, but it's not and I'm ok with that. It met my needs and saved me money over buying an iMac or MBP (which I ended up buying later anyway as my needs changed) that wouldn't have done what I needed at the time.
Making the statement that the Mini is a waste of money because of the specs is like a trucker saying a VW Golf is a waste of money because he can't use it for work. It's all about what need or desire the machine is intended to fill.
I find the mini to be a little exquisite machine that fits the bill of 90% of the population. There I said it.
I would also say that even a PPC MAcMini fits the bill for most IF and only IF Adobe wouldn't have screwed Apple users over with the horrible performance of Flash on PPC.
I would also say that even a PPC MAcMini fits the bill for most IF and only IF Adobe wouldn't have screwed Apple users over with the horrible performance of Flash on PPC.
Here's a really crude way to measure relative value. Geekbench score (base models) divided by price. http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/ Higher is better.
Mac Mini 2.4 3307 $699 = 4.73
MacBook Air 1.4 2024 $999 = 2.03
MacBook 2.4 3646 $999 = 3.65
MacBook Pro 2.3 6448 $1199 = 5.38
iMac 2.5 7970 $1199 = 6.65
Mac Pro 2.8 9715 $2499 = 3.89
The Mini looks pretty good in this calculation. The Air is by far the most "overrated" based on bang for the buck, although this will change with the upcoming switch to Sandy Bridge processors.
Mac Mini 2.4 3307 $699 = 4.73
MacBook Air 1.4 2024 $999 = 2.03
MacBook 2.4 3646 $999 = 3.65
MacBook Pro 2.3 6448 $1199 = 5.38
iMac 2.5 7970 $1199 = 6.65
Mac Pro 2.8 9715 $2499 = 3.89
The Mini looks pretty good in this calculation. The Air is by far the most "overrated" based on bang for the buck, although this will change with the upcoming switch to Sandy Bridge processors.
I said it was "crude" but I think the underlying data is relevant. What are the two highest ranking models? What two models have recently been upgraded to Sandy Bridge? It's not a coincidence.
When the new Airs get Sandy Bridge next month I would guess their rating will shoot close to the top. The same goes for the Mini, assuming the price remains at $699.
Regardless of Geekbench, a $699 Mini with Sandy Bridge is worth much more than a $699 Mini with C2D. To me, at least.
Unless you assume that every Mac is identical in value to every other Mac, one gives the best bang for the buck and one gives the least. Finding a way to decide which is which is the game. Methods that rely on hard numbers are best for logical arguments.
When the new Airs get Sandy Bridge next month I would guess their rating will shoot close to the top. The same goes for the Mini, assuming the price remains at $699.
Regardless of Geekbench, a $699 Mini with Sandy Bridge is worth much more than a $699 Mini with C2D. To me, at least.
Unless you assume that every Mac is identical in value to every other Mac, one gives the best bang for the buck and one gives the least. Finding a way to decide which is which is the game. Methods that rely on hard numbers are best for logical arguments.
If you are looking for a computer that "does the job", performance beyond a certain point is irrelevant. I've got all "white" minis because they have all the performance I needed and were less expensive. For what they are doing, no other product in the Mac line would have made the cut.
For someone who needs a very portable system, the 11" MacBook Air is the best value even though it is at the bottom of the list! Lots of people buy iPads and I'm sure they would be even worse.
The problem with any rating scale is it is only good for the people the scale was written for.
For someone who needs a very portable system, the 11" MacBook Air is the best value even though it is at the bottom of the list! Lots of people buy iPads and I'm sure they would be even worse.
The problem with any rating scale is it is only good for the people the scale was written for.
Hard to argue with the results
My first Apple purchase, beyond an iPod was a White MacBook. I needed a new laptop, and I needed to become familiar with Mac OSX. In a matter of months I had made up my mind that I wasn't going to purchase any more PCs to install Windows on!
My next Apple purchase was a Mac Mini to replace my wife's dead HP PC. She already had everything else, including dual monitors... so I spent less than the PC it replaced, and she was very happy.
Then, when we were buying for our new business, Apple won the business. As the title says, "Hard to argue with the results". Had the non expensive toe-in-the-water systems not been available, I'd still be using a PC.
Instead, I'm writing this post on a 27" iMac. Our Point of Sale system is a 21.5" iMac, and my wife, who needed a laptop has a 15" MacBookPro with an external 27" Apple LED Cinema Display. For our server we bought a MacMini server.
Then, looking at how I use a laptop, I decided the best option was an iPad, so I purchased one to replace my original white MB. In the time I've had my white MB, all I've done is upgrade to Snow Leopard, upgrade the memory (which I did myself), and run out of hard drive space, so I replaced the hard drive (which I also did myself). The hard drive upgrade was orders of magnitude easier than any previous PC upgrade experience in over 20 years! I thought the process would take all night, and I was done in less than 3 hours, and that was copying the original drive, and resizing the partition to the larger size.
Bottom line is that I agree with everyone who says you buy the system that meets the objective the best. And, even the most overrated (read under performing) Apple is more likely to work, and work well until its components fail. Try that on a PC, that will become sluggish within months of being the fastest "kid on the block".
My first Apple purchase, beyond an iPod was a White MacBook. I needed a new laptop, and I needed to become familiar with Mac OSX. In a matter of months I had made up my mind that I wasn't going to purchase any more PCs to install Windows on!
My next Apple purchase was a Mac Mini to replace my wife's dead HP PC. She already had everything else, including dual monitors... so I spent less than the PC it replaced, and she was very happy.
Then, when we were buying for our new business, Apple won the business. As the title says, "Hard to argue with the results". Had the non expensive toe-in-the-water systems not been available, I'd still be using a PC.
Instead, I'm writing this post on a 27" iMac. Our Point of Sale system is a 21.5" iMac, and my wife, who needed a laptop has a 15" MacBookPro with an external 27" Apple LED Cinema Display. For our server we bought a MacMini server.
Then, looking at how I use a laptop, I decided the best option was an iPad, so I purchased one to replace my original white MB. In the time I've had my white MB, all I've done is upgrade to Snow Leopard, upgrade the memory (which I did myself), and run out of hard drive space, so I replaced the hard drive (which I also did myself). The hard drive upgrade was orders of magnitude easier than any previous PC upgrade experience in over 20 years! I thought the process would take all night, and I was done in less than 3 hours, and that was copying the original drive, and resizing the partition to the larger size.
Bottom line is that I agree with everyone who says you buy the system that meets the objective the best. And, even the most overrated (read under performing) Apple is more likely to work, and work well until its components fail. Try that on a PC, that will become sluggish within months of being the fastest "kid on the block".
most Mac's cost a awful lot more outside the USA for various reasons , without the people earning lot more money here outside the USA
and the mini is hit big times , a refurbished iMac cost here in the UK and in europe only a couple quid more then a brandnew Mini offering a faster processor, better GPU , more ram , more hdd space , a display, a keyboard , a mouse and all apple branded
Refurbished iMac 21.5-inch 3.06GHz Intel Core i3 processor
Originally released July 2010
21.5-inch LED-backlit glossy widescreen display
4GB memory
500GB hard drive
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics with 256MB memory
Built-in iSight camera
comes with apple bluetooth keyboard and apple magic mouse
price £769
new mini
2.4GHz : 320GB
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB memory
320GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics
price £612.00
plus apple bluetooth keyboard £57
plus apple magic mouse £59
makes a total of £728
and not including a 21.5 " ips monitor as there is none available from apple , same for the isight camera , ok you get a 20" apple cinema display used and a used isight camera of ebay , but even cheap it will set you back at least £200 together if you insist of working items
and to me placing a generic monitor and a generic keyboard and mouse in front of a Mac looks like ..oha that guy ran out of money
sure the mini is cute , efficient enough for most tasks and easy to hide and i would if i would live in the USA got one , but here in the UK its not worth the money you pay for it as you get better offerings from pc makers and not much bigger and installing OSX is not that difficult if you just look what hardware is on a Mac's logicboard and look to get the same hardware on your motherboard then even updates work as good as on a Mac
and the mini is hit big times , a refurbished iMac cost here in the UK and in europe only a couple quid more then a brandnew Mini offering a faster processor, better GPU , more ram , more hdd space , a display, a keyboard , a mouse and all apple branded
Refurbished iMac 21.5-inch 3.06GHz Intel Core i3 processor
Originally released July 2010
21.5-inch LED-backlit glossy widescreen display
4GB memory
500GB hard drive
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics with 256MB memory
Built-in iSight camera
comes with apple bluetooth keyboard and apple magic mouse
price £769
new mini
2.4GHz : 320GB
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB memory
320GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics
price £612.00
plus apple bluetooth keyboard £57
plus apple magic mouse £59
makes a total of £728
and not including a 21.5 " ips monitor as there is none available from apple , same for the isight camera , ok you get a 20" apple cinema display used and a used isight camera of ebay , but even cheap it will set you back at least £200 together if you insist of working items
and to me placing a generic monitor and a generic keyboard and mouse in front of a Mac looks like ..oha that guy ran out of money
sure the mini is cute , efficient enough for most tasks and easy to hide and i would if i would live in the USA got one , but here in the UK its not worth the money you pay for it as you get better offerings from pc makers and not much bigger and installing OSX is not that difficult if you just look what hardware is on a Mac's logicboard and look to get the same hardware on your motherboard then even updates work as good as on a Mac
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