I am simply unable to follow most of what you’re saying or understand how it relates to the original question. I don’t know what else to tell you. Sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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The new 14 and 16” models should jump to A16 architecture next year… right?
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Not sure what kind of chip or architecture the ARM Mac Pro will use but it will be interesting to see how they handle the RAM.
Then let me just make it shorter: it's unlikely for the 2021 MacBooks, which just came out, to be upgraded again next year. These devices most likely won't be upgraded until Apple at least introduces new iMacs, new Mac Pro, new iPhones, new iPads, and new MacBook Airs.
Also even if an upgrade comes, it'll be marginal because 4nm is basically 5mm++ from TSMC's point of view and the improvement is not that big.
that cant be .if so,the m2 SOC in the mba m2 will be more powerful than the m1 pro macbookpro ?
if it has 4P+4E that would already be as powerful as the m1pro (since a15 has about 20/25% more perrf than a14 when cooled down)
new imacs could be coming early 2022,mac pro no idea ,new iphones will come in september as usual,new ipads in mid 2022,new mba in april 2022 .
al this is assumption but it makes a lot of sense
the mba ,ipad ,iphones and imacs are obviously coming before october 2022
if that was the only thing bothering u from saying a mbp's refresh will occur next year ,i dont see the problem rly
Until Apple actually announces/releases M2-series SoCs, it can be anything one can dream up...?
Without official announcement, all & any SoCs are henceforth known as Schrodinger's SoCs...! ;^p
You made a valid point; balancing new Mn-series SoCs against previous generation SoCs is gonna be tricky for Apple; a new Mn-series SoC needs to be powerful enough to make end users want to upgrade, but not so powerful as to "weaken" the perceived performance of previous gen Mn Pro / Max SoCs...
Given A14 and A15 is basically the same architecture (at least with the performance cores) with some cache changes and clock speed increases, it doesn't really matter. Apple seems to have adopted a bit of an Intel-style "tic-toc" cadence, with architectural jumps followed by refinements in cache depth and power efficiencies.
M2 will almost certainly have whatever the next generation architecture holds. The question is whether that will be before the next iPhone or after. It will also be interesting if the new MBA has M2, given it might mean better single-core performance that the newly released M1 Pro/Max machines.
It seems that Apple is releasing it's chips on the lowest powered devices first (phone) then entry level Macs/iPads and then the big guns. The rumored Mac Pro next year will have up to 4 M1 Max chips, but that will basically be a 2 year old design by that point.
Whatever happens, it's all very exciting again!
better single core,also means better multicore.and if the single core is improved by 20% or more (which is very very likely) ,it means the new mba will be as powerful as the new macbook pros...which is kinda weird
and all that is assuming they keep the same 4+4,but if they ever go 6+4 ,itlll literally blow the mbp out of water
There are plenty of ways to bork this though - even way back in the day, Intel's i7 would often outperform it's Xenon counterpart in single-threaded tasks because Xenon was always a generation or two behind the consumer grade chips. But Xenon has more cores, much larger caches and often faster and more accurate memory.
The MBA is likely to still have 4 performance cores which even at 20% faster won't outperform 8 or 10 cores in the M1 Pro/Max. The unified memory could be slower, caches could be smaller, it could lack some fixed functions like the video encode/decode for Pro Res or even run at a much lower TDP or clock speed.
I would honestly be surprised if the new MBA has the same chip in 2022 that it had in 2020, that would be a hard sell, but also it would be weird if it out-performed the flagship devices.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the M2 MacBook Air turns out to be almost as powerful as the base model binned 14” MBP.
It looks like it’ll have an M2 chip with the same CPU layout and 2 extra GPU cores — likely also A15 stuff such as double the SLC.
SoC weirdness is normal for Apple, like when they released an A14 iPad Air that exceeded the single-core and GPU performance of the 2020 iPad Pros and then released an iPad Mini that’s more powerful than the Air.
New MacBook Air won't be as powerful as the new MacBook Pros. The M1 Pro is literally 2x the performance of M1 with 10 cores, and it's still about 50% more powerful even with 8 cores.
A 20% increase in single-core performance for a theoretical M2 chip will only mean 20% increase in multicore. Apple did think this through when they made these M1 Pro/Max chips. Even if the Air tries to reach the base model M1 Pro 8-core with 6 P cores, it'll incur efficiency penalty because M2 isn't going to be built on 3nm but on 4nm, which is basically 5nm++.
Last but not least, the Air is meant to be a fanless chip, so if anything, I'd expect the new chip to instead be a little faster in single-threaded performance, slightly faster in graphics, and slightly more efficient (thus able to sustain performance for longer instead of throttling like the current Air). But it won't be mind-blowing. We already knew this was going to be the case when TSMC announced the delay of their 3nm process.
I'm gonna make a comparison with Geekbench as it scales up perfectly.i know it's not exactly representative of real life usage but still...it means something
Currently the 8c MBP is about 25-28% faster than the MBA .
Now,if u add 20% faster performance in P cores,and 30% faster E cores(A15 has very very impressive efficiency cores) ,with even less power consumption than the m1(A15 is VERY impressive in power consumption,it's more powerful and much more efficient ,crazy)
Then...well imma calculate it .
For reference,the 4E in m1 equal to 1.3P
The m1 has 4+4 ,which literally equals to 5.3P cores .the m1 pro has 6+2,which is 6.7P cores
With A15 improvements,it would mean 4P+20%=4.8P .add to it the 1.3P (4E=1.3P) +30% (the 30% improvements of efficiency cores) ,that gives u 1.7
Total : 4.8+1.7= 6.5 ...
Not as powerful .but the MBP will be only 4% faster ....
.. Which means the M2 will have much higher single core ( 2100) ,and multi core of 9650( the m1 pro is 1760 and 9950) ...isn't it some crazy **** ??
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It is absolutely not 2* more powerful.e cores are actually very useful it seems.
In best case scenario,the m1 pro is 70% faster ,and that's apple claims lol
In reality it's usually 60-62% faster
The 8c base should still be better than the new MBA given it's price...and it is what? 28% more powerful than m1
In any random GPU workload, it is more than 2x as fast.
And in any CPU workload, it's consistently much faster, even up to 2x:
See more here:
Most of this extra performance comes from the memory bandwidth being more than 2x the M1. It only makes sense that when memory is more than 2x faster that we also get 2x the performance on workloads that are memory-bound. Don't just base everything on Geekbench as if it's gospel. It's not as "linear" as you think it is.
In fact, M1 is already somewhat memory-bound as it is. Making the CPU and GPU faster without raising memory bandwidth means the chip will be held back. You can clearly see how M1 Pro and Max perform much better with faster memory.
im saying geekbench is linear,do u deny it ? not saying that its vey reprensentative howeverIn any random GPU workload, it is more than 2x as fast.
And in any CPU workload, it's consistently much faster, even up to 2x:
View attachment 1899823
See more here:
Most of this extra performance comes from the memory bandwidth being more than 2x the M1. It only makes sense that when memory is more than 2x faster that we also get 2x the performance on workloads that are memory-bound. Don't just base everything on Geekbench as if it's gospel. It's not as "linear" as you think it is.
In fact, M1 is already somewhat memory-bound as it is. Making the CPU and GPU faster without raising memory bandwidth means the chip will be held back. You can clearly see how M1 Pro and Max perform much better with faster memory.
besides youre comparing the max which has 400gbps of bandwidth ,unlike the m1pro which is half of that.not everyone gonna buy the m1max
even the m1 pro ,many buyers get the binned 8c version
This test is purely on the CPU though. Max and Pro don't really differ much in how the CPU accesses the memory. This is known. The binned model of the 14" just has less cores, but it still has the exact same memory bandwidth, and is neck to neck with the 10-core model except in specific CPU-bound situations like... say... when you export multiple photos in Lightroom.
I have the 10-core 14" model. It's not that hard to use Xcode Instruments to see how it'll perform with 2 cores taken out of the equation.
P.S.: and yes, I am denying that Geekbench is linear. Otherwise, please feel free to explain why the M1 Pro with 10 cores is 25% faster than M1 Pro with 8 cores:
MacBookPro18,1 - Geekbench
Benchmark results for a MacBookPro18,1 with an Apple M1 Pro processor.
browser.geekbench.com
MacBookPro18,3 - Geekbench
Benchmark results for a MacBookPro18,3 with an Apple M1 Pro processor.
browser.geekbench.com
If your math makes sense, then the 10-core M1 Pro should be at most 20% faster, not 25%.
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m1pro has 200,max is 400..simple
the binned also has less gpu cores but idk how many will be in m2 air anyway. oh otherwise it doesnt make much of a diff u sure ?
why did u got for the 10c may i ask ? especially on such small body
besides,would u mind helping me ? what are idle temps ,when using internal display /when using external monitor ?
what are the temps for light usage ,like some background processes,mail,messages,communication stuff,some safari tabs,some music,pages and numbers opened ? on my mba m1 i average 25 at idle ,30 when connected ot external monitor
with the tasks i described,im usually around 35 degress,and beetween 40-45 when connected to external monitor
while there is a "problem" in the max with how much memory can be accessed at once,the max still has double the memory bandwidth compared to m1pro.
m1pro has 200,max is 400..simple
the binned also has less gpu cores but idk how many will be in m2 air anyway. oh otherwise it doesnt make much of a diff u sure ?
why did u got for the 10c may i ask ? especially on such small body
besides,would u mind helping me ? what are idle temps ,when using internal display /when using external monitor ?
what are the temps for light usage ,like some background processes,mail,messages,communication stuff,some safari tabs,some music,pages and numbers opened ? on my mba m1 i average 25 at idle ,30 when connected ot external monitor
with the tasks i described,im usually around 35 degress,and beetween 40-45 when connected to external monitor
Yeah, I'm quite certain 8 cores won't make much of a difference in actual use. It's not like all workloads scale linearly anyway. Very few workloads actually benefit from more cores.
Some of my workloads happen to fall in the category that benefits from having more CPU cores.
I do photo editing with Capture One Pro, and I compile large programs in Xcode and such. If the fan is slightly louder, then so be it.
I also had the 16" MacBook with M1 Max to compare to and found that I didn't need the extra GPU performance, plus the machine was very bulky/hefty, and last but not least, it doesn't play nice with 65W charger, so I returned it. I am now happy with the 14" because it's more portable, still more screen real estate than the 13" M1 Pro, and it plays very nicely with 65W chargers, so I can save a lot of room and weight in my bag when I travel.
All I can tell you is... I don't hear the fan in this 14" MacBook at all unless the CPU cores are being stressed very hard. It's cool to the touch with most normal tasks and doesn't get that much worse battery life compared to my 13" M1 Pro when I am just listening to music and browsing the web:
Overall fan noise is not that much worse than the 13" M1 Pro and I can live with it. In exchange, photo export and compile speed is overall 1.5 - 2x faster than my 13" M1 Pro.