the new apple tv - 1080p isn't needed

[Friscohoya]

If 1080p was really as popular as most seem to think it is, it would be inside apple boxes. I have a 110" high def projector and regularly watch 480p and 720p films/tv on it. Looks great from the 9-12' viewing distance. Would 1080p be better? Sure, but we are talking about the difference between iphone 3G and 3GS. I'd take the latter, but was completely happy with the former and barely noticed the difference.

The real issue is the dowload speed of the itunes films and 1080p would only exasperate the situation it seems to me. Problem on these forums is that we are all tech enthusiast and our needs are different from those of the average person who is mostly looking for variety, convenience and value.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I don't think anyone would complain if the new ATV did 1080p, but its not something I particularly care about one way or the other. One of my buddies has a 1080p set and I honestly don't envy it one bit over my 1080p TV. I'm perfectly satisfied with my 720p movies in iTunes.

Heck, when I get a blu-ray, I never watch it on my PS3, I convert it for iTunes and watch it on my ATV.

My only request is 29.97fps 720p native support. I have several HD movies that play on my iPhone and iPad, but don't show up on the ATV because the framerate is higher than 24fps.

 

[rayward]

I don't think anyone would complain if the new ATV did 1080p, but its not something I particularly care about one way or the other. One of my buddies has a 1080p set and I honestly don't envy it one bit over my 1080p TV. I'm perfectly satisfied with my 720p movies in iTunes.

Heck, when I get a blu-ray, I never watch it on my PS3, I convert it for iTunes and watch it on my ATV.

My only request is 29.97fps 720p native support. I have several HD movies that play on my iPhone and iPad, but don't show up on the ATV because the framerate is higher than 24fps.

You and I are in total agreement.

Also, the new box is supposedly streaming only, no syncing, and streaming a 20 gig movie over even a wired ethernet connection is going to be tedious. It takes about 10 mins for a 3 gig movie to be copied from my HDD into my iTunes library which is stored on a NAS. The whole operation being wired (Cat 5e).

 

[rodrigomarrafao]

Well what we see here is one more aggressive move of Apple's hitlerian DRM policy.

Every single product Apple develops, excluding desktops and laptops, are a downright kick to the face in user's freedom. Apple chooses what and how you access their content.

Most people fail to realize it, because they are mesmerized with all that shining design and cool effects and really believe Apple is a groundbreaking company with innovative solutions. Far from the true, Apple in fact a very reactionary and ruthless company.

That being said, as stated above, 720p is the "right choice" since 1080p isn't in Apple business model, like MMS and video calls (available since 2001), and tethering (available even on Startac ancient models). But don't worry Apple will support 1080p soon and will call it a fancy cool name like IDef or something, like Face to Face for video call and call it groundbreaking. So much for innovation my friends.

obs - I'm a proud owner of a macbook pro and would never use another computer if i have to save my life since OSX with multi gestures boost my workflow tremendously. That is innovative.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Well what we see here is one more aggressive move of Apple's hitlerian DRM policy.

Every single product Apple develops, excluding desktops and laptops, are a downright kick to the face in user's freedom. Apple chooses what and how you access their content.

Most people fail to realize it, because they are mesmerized with all that shining design and cool effects and really believe Apple is a groundbreaking company with innovative solutions. Far from the true, Apple in fact a very reactionary and ruthless company.

Most of the content on the iTunes store is NOT Apple's content. The DRM and restrictions is not Apple's choice, it is the choice of the content holders.

If you download Podcasts, you'll realize that being free, they can play back on almost any devices that support AAC, mp3 or mp4 video. The same rings true for any music or basic music videos purchased via iTunes. Apple isn't trying to lock you into their ecosystem, the content providers are... they're trying to lock you into one format. If you buy a movie in iTunes, they don't want you to be able to play it back on multiple devices, and I'm sure Apple had to fight just to be able to let you play the content back on multiple Apple-branded devices.

Apple doesn't make any profit beyond the initial sale of their content, so why do they care if its protected or not? If you download movies or TV shows off of Amazon, they too are protected. And they don't offer any first-party media players or devices.

iTunes has long been self-sustaining enough thanks to the iPhone and iPod line that they don't need DRM, and it would probably be easier and cheaper for Apple if they didn't have to worry about it and could sell everything DRM free, including movies and music. It's purely the content holders at work.

Now, what you are saying may be true of the app store, which is a different beast and different subject altogether.

 

[Chealion]

Psh. Who cares about 1080? Where's my 2K, 4K, 4.5K and 5K content? YouTube already supports 4K!

</ridiculous satire>

 

[iTiki]

No 1080p. Not interested. Apple needs to wake up on this one.

 

[yancey47]

My only request is 29.97fps 720p native support. I have several HD movies that play on my iPhone and iPad, but don't show up on the ATV because the framerate is higher than 24fps.

I'm much more interested in a fps boost than anything else. Really hoping for that. It could happen too with the iPhone 4 shooting at 30fps. I'd be surprised if Apple put out a new product that doesn't work perfectly with all it's other new products.

 

[TwoBytes]

As far as movie content, the only device that supports TRUE content rendered in 1080p is blueray. Other devices may output content in 1080p but its upconverted. You then are at the mercy/quality of their upconverting chipsets and allot are not of good quality.

In addition 1080p is solely the video/resolution. What about the audio? There are dobly and dts audio formats for HD audio. Much higher quality. But all of this requires a huge amount of storage and bandwith. Nothing that we will see via download or instant downloads for along time.

If you have a 1080p TV hooked up to a 720p ATV or iTV, the TV will auto scale it to 1080p. Now you are at the mercy of the scaler of the TV.
You can get great quality if you are using a newer receiver with a good upconverting/scaling/deinterlacing chipset from Achorbay. Anchorbay also makes external scaler as well.

Another thing to mention about 1080P is that in order to really perceive benefits of the better resolution, you really need to be viewing content on a screen larger than 50". Its not really noticiable at 50" and below. A caveat to this is if you plan on adding blueray to the mix. Otherwise, you are downconverting the video content of the blueray player and will loose quality.

+1000 to that one. Nobody should be bitching with this one unless they have an extensive blueray collection. I don't even known anyone with more bluerays than DVDs. Once that scenario is swapped, then it's grounds for 1080p. They haven't even got everything out on blueray. Unless ATV comes with a bluerayer player, 1080p is just a number and it's a waste. Until blueray gets more established and more titles come out, Apple won't put a device in.

Another post which was quite good;

FWIW, a Blu Ray rip is 20-40 gigs, while a 720p encode of that for Apple TV is 2-4 gigs. The bandwidth required to download a 1080p movie simply doesn't exist for the home consumer, and won't for a long time to come. Thus 1080p for Apple TV is wasted cost/effort. It's not even practical to rip and store full 1080p versions of movies, as you'd fill up a 2TB HDD with less than 100 movies and choke your network trying to stream them.

This just sums it all up. Blueray is not practical at the moment

 

[daver11]

Apple has never struck me as a company that would say "We don't need to do better, this is good enough." 720p would be a disappointment.

 

[mstrze]

Apple has never struck me as a company that would say "We don't need to do better, this is good enough."

True...so if the 1080p experience isn't up to their standards, they aren't going to offer it until they can perfect it.

 

[rayward]

True...so if the 1080p experience isn't up to their standards, they aren't going to offer it until they can perfect it.

While Apple isn't perfect (see iPhone 4), for the most part they do not beta test on unsuspecting customers. That was always the knock on WinPC, in that MS would roll out a new OS, millions would install it, and all crash at the same time for different reasons because they hadn't even begun to iron out all the bugs.

Apple have run a tighter ship historically, and usually don't release something to market until they are certain that it works properly. They also tend to create more elegant deployments of "new" functionality, instead of slapping on a hastily written patch (which is why Windows is such a dysfunctional FrankenOS), which takes time also.

One of the reasons that iPhone 4 was such big news, because it was so unlike Apple to take pot shots at their own tootsies like that (and then SJ poured gasoline on the fire with his off-handed quips about the problem). Hopefully they learned their lesson and will take care to be true to Apple's heritage than Microsoft's in the future.

 

[bigpatky]

i don't even know why the current apple tv has to do 720p. 480i is fine. i enjoy dvd quality. think about the bandwidth. 2-3 gigs for a 720p movie when it could be 400-500 mb for 480i? what a waste. plus, my hd camcorder records just fine in standard def and if i save them in sd, i can save 10-20x as many videos in the same space.

 

[iCaleb]

Meh.....I'd rather just rent off my PS3 in 1080p

 

[GermanSuplex]

i don't even know why the current apple tv has to do 720p. 480i is fine. i enjoy dvd quality. think about the bandwidth. 2-3 gigs for a 720p movie when it could be 400-500 mb for 480i? what a waste. plus, my hd camcorder records just fine in standard def and if i save them in sd, i can save 10-20x as many videos in the same space.

I'll have to politely disagree here. It's cool if you're fine with 480i or 480p conent. It looks good when upscaled via the ATV, but there's quite a noticable difference in quality between 480i/p conent and 720p... much more than going from 720p to 1080p.

Going from SD content to HD is like going from cassette to CD, and going from 720p to 1080p is like going from CD to DVD Audio or something like that.

That's why I'm perfectly content with 720p on my 720p set... I get the bennefits of HD and a very nice picture with great detail, even in compressed mp4 videos, but also maintain relatively small file sizes and easy streaming.

 

[Flynnstone]

i don't even know why the current apple tv has to do 720p. 480i is fine. i enjoy dvd quality. think about the bandwidth. 2-3 gigs for a 720p movie when it could be 400-500 mb for 480i? what a waste. plus, my hd camcorder records just fine in standard def and if i save them in sd, i can save 10-20x as many videos in the same space.

I agree.
I have some VHS tape that look great on a Commodore 64 monitor. Looks great.

 

[gianly1985]

MacMini + NAS full of 1080p MKV rips of your blurays + Plex software (+hw acceleration of nvidia 320M) + Adobe Flash @Gala (again, 320M hw accelaration) + DVB-T HD tuner + USB Common Interface*+ + EyeTV software + Remote Buddy software + Wii Remote + Apple Wireless Keyboard + Magic Trackpad + BetterTouchTool software and you're good to go.

(*swap that with DVB-T2 and Common Interface Plus when available/needed in your country)

That's the solution for the "there's a whole HD world outside itunes ecosystem"-people. Why use a closed iOS device when you can easily fit a MacMini under your TV and do every kind of stuff. The obvious price difference should be not a problem for people geeky/enthusiast enough to even care.

For the itunes-ecosystem people and for most common users, the 720p ATV is just fine. With apps to ice the cake.

 

[brentsg]

People overestimate the value of resolution when the degree of compression is more important.

 

[Markusp]

1080p is a huge item to leave off the iTV, even if for no other purpose other than marketing. Why promote something as being obsolete right of the bat?

Who cares if iTunes doesn't have any 1080p content? Why alienate those of us who do have 1080p content? I would imagine that the new iTV architecture can indeed support 1080p streaming as it is new tech and all of it's similar competition have little problems doing so, so why handcuff the device just to keep in line with iTunes?

AppleTV was never a big seller and the iTV will flop if it does not promote itself as being 1080p compatible. Every TV that is sold now at every electronics merchant is 1080p and so most consumers will want a 1080p device, even if they never download or stream a single 1080p source!

 

[TwoBytes]

Markusp, see my last post and the hilighted bit from tdmac which i think is spot on - you're not being alienated. You don't have an extensive blueray collection and therefore don't have the 'need' according to the mighty apple in the site.

Who cares if iTunes doesn't have any 1080p content?

It means if iTunes doesn't have it, you most likely won't either unless your a rich kid with a top of the link BR player..and if you are, you probably won't be wanting an atv.

Why promote something as being obsolete right of the bat?

Because 1080p isn't as mainstream as everything else. In fact, 1080p is 'more' obsolete at the moment if you think about content to the masses...

so why handcuff the device just to keep in line with iTunes?

the answer is in your question. A seamless experience. If you want the fiddling about apple could have released 1080p functionality and let non-tech people fumble with configurations and getting it to work...but you might as well buy a pc

tdmac's post is brilliant. It makes me think a lot of people are bitching for the sake of it without knowing what they want is pointless.

 

[gianly1985]

It means if iTunes doesn't have it, you most likely won't either unless your a rich kid with a top of the link BR player..and if you are, you probably won't be wanting an atv.

This.

As I said, rich/geeky/enthusiast and tech savvy people can buy a MacMini and tinker it to a 1080p media center heaven (sort of). That's what I'm doing since the 9400M mini has come out. Heck, Apple even included an HDMI port in the last mini, that's a clear message.

 

[Markusp]

Musio - I politely disagree. Every manufacturer today promotes 1080p so it is mainstream and the norm, be it upscaling to 1080p in standard DVD players, the resolution of every TV produced today, video games on consoles such as Xbox 360 or PS3, or the latest camcorders. It is the norm and to not promote the iTV as being 1080p is a non-starter for many people, be they videophiles, enthusiasts or just Joe public who wants a 1080p device to match their new 1080p TV.

I used to be a HT enthusiast, having a system worth tens of thousands of dollars, including multiple DVD changers, an Escient server, 800 DVDs etc. but those days are behind me now and I am now a simple consumer who wants to stream my kids films to my TV. I have an AppleTV which I use for music and movie rentals and an Acer Aspire Revo with XBMC for my videos, which includes 50 odd Blu-rays ripped in full 1080p resolution. For me, the new iTV is a non-starter, despite the fact that I strongly prefer the user interface of the AppleTV to my Acer Revo setup. If the iTV could stream 1080p, I would pick one up in a heartbeat, but as it is already handcuffed out of the gate, I will pass, as I suspect many other people will as well.

All this from a loyal Apple owner, currently running 2 macbooks, an iPad, an AppleTV, an Airport Extreme, an Airport Express, an iPhone and several different iPods. Brand loyalty can only take you so far and for me, the iTV, if the rumors are true, is a non-starter.

 

[Markusp]

This.

As I said, rich/geeky/enthusiast and tech savvy people can buy a MacMini and tinker it to a 1080p media center heaven (sort of). That's what I'm doing since the 9400M mini has come out. Heck, Apple even included an HDMI port in the last mini, that's a clear message.

Bought the new Mac mini but ended up returning it as the Acer Aspire Revo running XBMC Live (Linux) was a much cheaper and more stable solution.

never touch Windows on the thing

 

[carlgo]

Well if that's the case, why doesn't Apple start offering 1080p HD downloads for an extra couple of bucks for sales/rent? They can do that this afternoon if they wanted...Doesn't affect them negatively...in fact, it would make them more money. The fact is the END USER EXPERIENCE would be HORRIBLE and that my friend is the main reason they won't do it....YET.

Get the bandwidth availability high enough to enjoy streaming 1080p content and I GUARANTEE Apple will be right on board. Why wouldn't they want to make more money? Right?

I mean, if you really think that the end-user experience does not enter into Apple's mindest you must have never owned an Apple product in your life.

Only Apple products, from the beginning of time. Heck, I just fixed my Time Capsule!

1080p is fast becoming the standard, advertised as being "real high def". Apple is going against the zillions of dollars being spent to promote that standard and what sense does that make?

Sometimes you just have to offer what people expect and want. Certainly Apple could offer both, 1080p downloads for all those who have expensive new TVs and who will wait to download an epoch movie now and then, and 720 for those who demand streaming video so they can watch Friends reruns at a coffee shop.

Why have all this controversy? Don't fight your customers!

 

[gianly1985]

Bought the new Mac mini but ended up returning it as the Acer Aspire Revo running XBMC Live (Linux) was a much cheaper and more stable solution.

never touch Windows on the thing

Sure the Revo may be the best for your needs, but I prefer the Mini as it's a more versatile machine, offering "real PC" processing power and not atom-ish CPUs. (and it's just as stable, don't know what you meant)
The Revo is cheaper than the Mini but there are reasons for that. (CPU, FW800, Unibody casing, double digital video output, future-proofed MinidisplayPort 2560x1600 output, better GPU, 8gb max ram instead of 4gb-ish of the Revo, slim ODD, etc)

EDIT: moving on from the Revo vs Mini argument, and going back to the forthcoming "iTV/ATV 720p"

Somehow the ATV 720p is the iPod Shuffle, the Mini is the iPod Classic of the living room.

Somebody will be OK with listening to AACs/MP3s from the shuffle, other will load lossless ALAC CD rips in their Classic.