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Well, it would make zero sense.

The Neo branding specifically is targeted at first time Mac users. Nobody buys a desktop as their first Mac. The goal of $599 Mac mini is to promote development of iOS/iPadOS apps. Neo sucks at that and Studio is too expensive. So Apple would be screwing over its own ecosystem growth.

Over time, the Mini in some narrow contexts drifted toward development deployments. However, at original 2005 introduction that was not the primary 'pitch'.

" ...
The ‌Mac mini‌ was originally designed as a gateway for users to enter the Apple ecosystem without the expense associated with the company's higher-end offerings of the time, such as the Power Mac G5 and iMac G5, and costly peripherals. Apple's then-CEO Steve Jobs described the ‌Mac mini‌ as "the most affordable Mac ever" during its unveiling at Macworld Expo 2005, noting that its $499 starting price was intended to appeal to PC users looking to switch to the Mac platform. Today's base model ‌Mac mini‌ with the M4 chip costs just $599. ..."

Jobs stated also at the intro that it didn't come with a mouse/keyboard because it was assumed that you already had one (i.e,. you were switching from something else). And Apple still hasn't added those while the iMac never lost that bundling. ( at some point the Mac Pro also lost the keyboard , but that was a different 'evolutionary' path . )

if go to the release thread


and search that thread for the word 'switchers' there are 4 pages of posts that mention the word.
there are only 6 posts that mention the "developers" word. Additionally, the majority of those mentions are far more about more mac units sold would attract more developers to write for the ecosystem ( i.e., larger user base means more developers. ) rather than a primary development machine. Finally, the iPhone app develpment kit wouldn't even arrive for several more years.

The notion of the Mini as a development node more so started in 2014 era and was formerly pushed by Apple with the 2018 Mini ( were part of the direct marketing material). MacStadium/Miniloco like set ups over time became a substantive deployment for Mini's but it didn't start out that way.


It doesn't make sense because the Ann Pro SoC has relatively weak I/O. On a laptop, it is easier to get away with that. On a desktop, that is going to be a larger sore point. Two parts and none of them USB4, relative to the rest of the min-PC market is quite delinquent. Even a Raspberry Pi 5 has more ports than that ( although not USB 4 there are more ports).

The Plain Mn Mini is already stripped of lots of stuff. Shaving off the ports openings won't make it that much cheaper. Probably would get much smaller ( unless Apple started 'sharing' enclosure with AppleTV).
 
Imagine for a moment that Apple kills off the mini for a Mac Neo, and brings in a slightly lower spec’d Studio to replace the higher end mini. Thoughts?

The Neo didn't 'kill' the MBA. A Mac Neo would have more problems than the Macbook Neo with I/O. Having only two ports on a desktop is a liability. None of them USB4 is pretty bad, but a Raspberry Pi 5 has more I/O ports than a Mac Neo would. The regular Windows Mini-PC would also swamp it with ports in number and bandwidth.

Even a ASUS NUC 14 essential with a somewhat lowly N150 chip has more I/O.


6 USB ports. ( 5 of which fastest USB 3.2 gen 2 (10Gb/s) ). Also 2.5 GbE Ethernet ... which A18/19 Pro can't do ( or any Ethernet .. because no PCI-e lane provisioning).

In a desktop context, there is higher percentage of users who are going to want to plug something into a box that doesn't move. the mobile laptop moving without those 'plug in' things is what helps the Neo get away a rather poor port provisioning properties.

Port numbers on a Mini has typically been higher than on the lowest end Macbook. There are very real market driven demand dynamics behind that.
 
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I just wonder if a big argument against a Mac Neo at the moment is Apple are actually rationing unit sales of minis right now to limit losses due to ram price increases given that they keep the published price consistent during the lifetime of a product. Historically temporarily long lead times on Apple Store have been due to new SKUs coming shortly and people ordering would get the new cpus by ‘surprise’.

If people actually got the m4 mini they ordered but weeks later rather than days later it’s down to supply chain issues rather than a new mini coming imminently.

I get why Apple want to launch a cut price laptop given people’s budgets might be stretched with upcoming economic shocks but Apple desktops sell a lot less than laptops and I can’t see Apple catering for a 299 desktop crowd.

Third party retail stocks of all Apple desktops appear to be drying up but I’d suggest m5 replacements aren’t imminent at this point.
 
I just wonder if a big argument against a Mac Neo at the moment is Apple are actually rationing unit sales of minis right now to limit losses due to ram price increases given that they keep the published price consistent during the lifetime of a product. Historically temporarily long lead times on Apple Store have been due to new SKUs coming shortly and people ordering would get the new cpus by ‘surprise’.

Very good chance Apple is not rationing Minis as much as don't have access to memory outside of the amounts they had projected and signed contracts for last year. A new "Mac Neo" (not MacBook Neo) would very likely steam roll right into the exact same problem.

The Macbook Neo is very likely 'getting by' because Apple booked the room before OpenAI went 'drunken sailor' at Samsung/SKHynix and bought about ever wafer that didn't have someone names on it.

When folks are ordering the devices are not as long as the projected time in several cases. It is a more a 'scare' tactic trying to move folks from buying too many now. Someone who 'really needs it' will just order. Speculators or fad chasers will just move along.

It is probably a combination of both a M4->M5 transition and the RAM hoarding that is making the transition harder than usual. If RAM wasn't 'crazy' they could have tweaks orders months ago to ease into a 'smooth' landing. The RAM problem is making this a bumpy 'landing' of how to transition over the SoCs to a new phase and products.

[ Also looming on the horizon is Apple flipping 'on' the Mini factory in USA later in the year and tariff duties of whatever fickle mood comes out of a White House weekly temper tantrum . Not just RAM crosswinds mucking up the landing. ]
 
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Sure, and when I say "nobody" I don't mean it literally. But Gen Z/Alpha, teens, and adults who went through COVID, are not buying Mac mini as their first Mac. They grew up using iPad, iPhone, and understand the value of mobility. That leaves the 35-65 year old Windows users, but given deeply rooted habits, there aren't many switchers in that group.

Windows sales didn't collapse during COVID or before/after COVID. It is still the case the Windows has been selling in several multiples to the number of mac units. An iPhone/WinPC combine is fully supported by Apple ( iClould , keychain , phone backup , Music , Photos , etc.). It isn't just old folks for decades ago.

Apple has largely ignored the market the Macbook Neo is in for a very long time. Which means there are lots of people over varying ages in it. Especially, if look at worldwide demographics.
 
Windows sales didn't collapse during COVID or before/after COVID. It is still the case the Windows has been selling in several multiples to the number of mac units. An iPhone/WinPC combine is fully supported by Apple ( iClould , keychain , phone backup , Music , Photos , etc.). It isn't just old folks for decades ago.

Apple has largely ignored the market the Macbook Neo is in for a very long time. Which means there are lots of people over varying ages in it. Especially, if look at worldwide demographics.

Windows desktops are very much alive. Laptops not so much.

In the case of desktops, besides the traditional tower, there are a LOT of options in the size of Mac mini / ATV (see Amazon) with both INTEL and AMD chips and many ports. The reduced size facilitate placement (behind monitors or in any size desk). But the main factor is price. You can get these mini PCs with Windows installed for $200-300 easily (there are models that costs less, and others that cost much more) but these is the range for a useful config (good CPU, 16Gb, 512-1TB SSD).

That is the reason that Chromebooks are dying a slow death. Their price advantage is basically null these days and their limitations are glaring!
 
The Neo didn't 'kill' the MBA. A Mac Neo would have more problems than the Macbook Neo with I/O. Having only two ports on a desktop is a liability. None of them USB4 is pretty bad, but a Raspberry Pi 5 has more I/O ports than a Mac Neo would. The regular Windows Mini-PC would also swamp it with ports in number and bandwidth.

Even a ASUS NUC 14 essential with a somewhat lowly N150 chip has more I/O.


6 USB ports. ( 5 of which fastest USB 3.2 gen 2 (10Gb/s) ). Also 2.5 GbE Ethernet ... which A18/19 Pro can't do ( or any Ethernet .. because no PCI-e lane provisioning).

In a desktop context, there is higher percentage of users who are going to want to plug something into a box that doesn't move. the mobile laptop moving without those 'plug in' things is what helps the Neo get away a rather poor port provisioning properties.

Port numbers on a Mini has typically been higher than on the lowest end Macbook. There are very real market driven demand dynamics behind that.
Pump the brakes on this. Nowhere did I assert that the Neo had killed the MBA. I merely asked for supposition that Apple kills the Mini in favour of a Mac Neo and asked for thoughts. I think there are many different factors at play here, some of which you’ve highlighted, but there are many more involved in Apple’s technical and business decisions. Appreciate your passion for the topic though!
 
Windows desktops are very much alive. Laptops not so much.

Eh? Laptops are 70+% of Windows market also. If you are hand waving at the recent higher 'percentage growth' of desktops, then the problem that laptops have is the 'law of large numbers'. The higher the number the harder it is to get 'sexy' double digit growth out of those numbers. For example 70 laptops goes to 74 laptops. 'Weak' 6% growth. 30 desktops goes to 34 units. 'Strong' 13% growth. It is the same number increase for each group. Desktops are not quite as small as before , but all need is a different refresh cycle phase to 'rebalance' that small shift. 74/108 --> 68% laptops would still be twice as large as desktops.

Part of the problem with the lower end , average laptop is that they are same somewhat morbid 'race to the bottom' formula the last 10 years. cheap 1080p screen, margin build quality , lots of marketing sticks and even more bloatware when you start it up.


In the case of desktops, besides the traditional tower, there are a LOT of options in the size of Mac mini / ATV (see Amazon) with both INTEL and AMD chips and many ports. The reduced size facilitate placement (behind monitors or in any size desk). But the main factor is price. You can get these mini PCs with Windows installed for $200-300 easily (there are models that costs less, and others that cost much more) but these is the range for a useful config (good CPU, 16Gb, 512-1TB SSD).

Those $200 level models were being sold at razor thin margins (and Intel or AMD dumping low end product). RAM and NAND price increases are likely going to blow up those margins. Price increases once inventory is depleted are likely coming for those. Or going to get shadier and shadier knock off

That is the reason that Chromebooks are dying a slow death. Their price advantage is basically null these days and their limitations are glaring!

Nope. Chromebook unit sales has been relatively constant the last 3 years. It isn't a fast growth story, but it is also not a dying either. For the market segment they are targeting they have a pretty tight grip. What Chromebooks are missing is a way to target folks who don't have any classic form factor PC now and drag them into the PC form factors.

Rumblings are that Google is going to push 'Chromebooks' into the direction of being "Android PC". Google has screwed up all kinds of product shifts in the past. If "Android PC" squashes the essential features that has help keep the Chromebook market size stable then "Chromebook" will probably die. If this move expands the market scope then probably won't die anytime soon. ( losses and gains will probably mostly offset one another and they'll keep their kernel of users. )

They don't have to attrack Windows folks over to Chromebook/Android PC. There is a very large set of Andriod only users out there. They already like Android, so it won't be as hard of a 'pull' to get them to come to the platform (since they are already on it in handheld form.). How they do that but don't push away the folks who liked the managed device and GApps integration tools will be a balancing act. ( if ban phones from school , but hand students that runs random Android (phone) apps then really haven't done much positive.)
 
The reduced size facilitate placement (behind monitors or in any size desk). But the main factor is price. You can get these mini PCs with Windows installed for $200-300 easily

A bit of a side issue, but, I did have a little experience with these some years ago when they first came out, both in cheap laptop and "desktop" back of the monitor models. At that time, the Achilles heel was the flash drive. They were just terribly, terribly slow at random access, far slower than a regular HDD, and it made them very frustrating for novice users to use. Whatever size storage you have, it has to be reasonably fast at random read/write to run any kind of disk-based OS like Windows.
 
Pump the brakes on this. Nowhere did I assert that the Neo had killed the MBA. I merely asked for supposition that Apple kills the Mini in favour of a Mac Neo and asked for thoughts.

If there were reasons why Apple didn't kill the MBA ... why wouldn't those also apply to the Mini? To fill the each same price/product space why would the toss away a product name they already have that has a long track record?

The whole point of the MB Neo is to sell to new people. Killing the Mini implies going to sell to the Mini folks something named differently. The iMac wasn't going to magic get cheaper. The Studio neither. Killing the Mini means you are inserting a replacement. On the laptop side the Neo did not replace anything. It expanded to targeted market.

If Apple would be doing a "Neo" (i.e., new opportunities. ) that means not killing off what you are already covering. Otherwise, you are creating an interior line up gap! Those gaps are lost revenue for Apple if they are already being covered.


Apple has killed off a part of the product offering with a new name. iMac 27" (largest screen) got replaced by Mac Studio. (and augmented a bit by Mini Pro). However, they absolutely did not replace it with a lower performing , less port provisioning device. Nor did the price change much.

Similarly the MP 2013 --> iMac Pro --> Mac Studio Ultra . No performance backslide , or port collapse.

I think there are many different factors at play here, some of which you’ve highlighted, but there are many more involved in Apple’s technical and business decisions. Appreciate your passion for the topic though!

Apple sells more laptops than desktops. The business decision here is to sell more 'Ann Pro' chips via placement in another Apple product to sell more units. Reportedly Apple is already going to drop these into AppleTV over time also. So that would be more time sold in more units covered that sits on a flat surface while plugged in. The placement in the laptop is the actual real unit volume needed to make a difference. The desktops aren't going to bring much higher unit volume, just more time.

P.S. AppleTV doesn't have any USB ports. For for all of the A17/18/19 Pro chips where the USB 3.0 controller is busted... it really doesn't matter for that product. Similar aspects of some major defects not making a difference in the Studio Display deployment. Selling more of the chips that get made is the 'business problem'.
 
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Over time, the Mini in some narrow contexts drifted toward development deployments. However, at original 2005 introduction that was not the primary 'pitch'.

The 2010-2014 evolution of the Mini was quite interesting. Some good, some bad. Great packaging to start. Unfortunately, they started dropping some ports and right-to-repair-ability at the same time some good came in, such as all-SSD configurations available. Some people were actually building clusters with the powerhouse 4-core 8-thread core i7. (It would have been nice if they hadn't phased out FireWire so suddenly.)
 
....(It would have been nice if they hadn't phased out FireWire so suddenly.)

They didn't.


The only the folks that wanted it had to pay for it. But built in OS support lasted for a long while. What happened suddenly was to stop making folks who didn't want it to also pay for it.

USB 3.0 standard went final in 2008. FW 400 was 'toast' at that point. The games Apple played with segmenting FW800 only to higher priced laptop system limited its impact so that by time got to USB 3.1 , 3.2 it was gone also. Apple phased that out. After 3.0's move to Intel's North/Southbridge chips FW days were numbered, because that wasn't going to be part of the I/O provisions that Apple had to pay for. It took a couple of years for it to arrive in the required IOHub chip, but the writing was on the wall at that point. Thunderbolt even more so.

The mini also starting taking gaps at 2012 so that last 'hurrah' with FW800 their is a bit of fluke relative to whole ecosystem.
 
They didn't.

I still have several of those in my dongles container.

But, I perhaps didn't explain the more pertinent part of the saga, which was that with the 4-core i7, and, all the ports, and, the all-SSD option, you could have had a "Studio" ahead of its time. The GPU was the missing piece with no way to cool a really capable option. So, we had to wait a few years. I'm happy now with the Mx options at every level, but, I don't like the new shrunken Mini form factor. Yes, I know every "legacy" port you want can be supported with dongles on dongles, but, I prefer a larger box with the ports on the back. That's me.
 
The ‌Mac mini‌ was originally designed as a gateway for users to enter the Apple ecosystem

Jobs stated also at the intro that it didn't come with a mouse/keyboard because it was assumed that you already had one (i.e,. you were switching from something else).
The M1 Mac Mini was my introduction to the M series processors as it was the cheapest option in 2021. I already had a thunderbolt display, so the only else needed was a keyboard and mouse/trackpad. It's also cheaper to upgrade than a MacBook or iMac as the displays and input devices can be useful for a decade or more. Having used a MacBook as a desktop for 9 years and Mini's for 5 years, I much rather buy a Mini (or Studio) for desktop use.

I would think that much of the market for a Mac Neo is already served by the MacBook Neo.
 
The M1 Mac Mini was my introduction to the M series processors as it was the cheapest option in 2021. I already had a thunderbolt display, so the only else needed was a keyboard and mouse/trackpad. It's also cheaper to upgrade than a MacBook or iMac as the displays and input devices can be useful for a decade or more. Having used a MacBook as a desktop for 9 years and Mini's for 5 years, I much rather buy a Mini (or Studio) for desktop use.

I would think that much of the market for a Mac Neo is already served by the MacBook Neo.
I for one have never been a fan of Apple I/O. From the single button mouse, to the hockey puck, to the Magic Mouse with a very oddly placed lightning jack... they just never really seem to nail it. I'm not a huge fan of the chiclet keyboard either, not quite enough travel for me when doing serious typing. The only thing they really NAIL is their trackpad. And touch devices obviously! And the screens are gorgeous... but EXPENSIVE.

I use a custom keyboard with custom switches, a pulsar gaming mouse and a massive Asus monitor. It isn't a Retina display, sure, but macOS still looks lovely on it and it was very cheap in comparison.

The idea of "we engineered this little computing cube for you, everything on the inside is our problem, you handle the rest" really makes me feel warm inside and I think the Mac mini is Apple at my favourite. This little mini m4 I bought... it's so simple and tiny and plain but it changes my life. I think its the ultimate expression of the original philosophy of what apple set out to do in the first place and I will stand my ground.

And the studio is just a bigger version. And I hear there might be a "Neo" version that has a phone chip which would be amazing as well. The mini may have been intended as an entry point, but to me it is THE point. Computing for the common man, access to professional grade tools and everyday safe private online use at an AFFORDABLE price point, bicycle for the mind yada yada, not some status symbol like the MacBook often is, but just a good computer.
 
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I for one have never been a fan of Apple I/O.
I'm not a fan of Apple keyboards either, but don't mind the price for their monitors as they last a long time. The Thunderbolt display is now hooked to its third computer and will probably last long enough to be hooked to a fourth. In the age of USB-C, the USB-A ports on the Thunderbolt come in handy.
 
You know what else lasts a long time? $200-$300 LG monitors. 😅
Along with a $130 HP monitor that I bought 10 years ago and still using. The common thread with the mini is that monitors, keyboards and mice can be cheap enough so that a Mac Mini system will still cost less than an MBA as well as going upscale where the monitors, keyboard and trackpad are kept when the Mini is replaced with a newer model.
 
I think GP is talking about a Thunderbolt Display from 2011 - back when 1440p was bleeding edge. Lets see if those LGs are still not only working but still nice displays in 15 years time.
My current LG was $300 in 2018, is 4k, 60Hz refresh rate (60fps gaming), covers 99% of the sRGB spectrum, and supports FreeSync. I can't really think what feature/specs can be massively updated?
 
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I'm curious if the 4k LG has an Ethernet port, extra USB ports and power for a laptop, all of which were on the Thunderbolt and the Studio display along with speakers, microphone and camera. Note that the power and Ethernet port are intended for laptop users as neither is of significant interest to a Mac Mini or Studio user. I will qualify the last statement in that the ASD has a 5G Ethernet port, which could be of interest with an owner of a Mini with the base 1G Ethernet port. One additional comment, a desktop computer needs an Ethernet port.

It does like the Studio Display would be more of an incremental upgrade rather than a massive upgrade to the $300 LG.
 
If there were reasons why Apple didn't kill the MBA ... why wouldn't those also apply to the Mini? To fill the each same price/product space why would the toss away a product name they already have that has a long track record?
Consistency of naming was never Apple's strong suit. I mean, they did just kill the Mac Pro, whereas the MacBook Pro, iPhone Pro, and AirPods Pro are still around.
 
Consistency of naming was never Apple's strong suit. I mean, they did just kill the Mac Pro, whereas the MacBook Pro, iPhone Pro, and AirPods Pro are still around.

If the MBP , iPhone Pro and AirPod Pro sold at the same unit volume as the Mac Pro .... they'd be dead also. Why it was killed has almost nothing to do with the name of the product. [ Only 'name' factor is that same folks anchored on that name want something that looks exactly like it did in 2016. And long as it looks 'different' they won't buy (form preference over function). ]

Apple has flipped flopped on names. MBA started out as 'premium for thinnest' laptop. ( that didn't work so well.

" ... As iconic as the new initial 2008 MacBook Air was, it “didn’t sell very well” according to Joz. ..."
https://9to5mac.com/2026/04/15/apple-execs-talk-biggest-flops-macbook-neo-more-in-new-interview/

So defacto it got refactored into the 'entry laptop' offering. When Apple brought back 'MacBook" they tried to re-insert into that same 'premium for thinnest" slot and ... surprise the was even bigger 'flop' as it birthed the butterfly keyboard mechanism.

They also when MP 2010 --> MP 2013 (small ) --> MP (large ) where the form factor changed significantly. But in terms of where it was on the pricing spectrum in the line up; that was consistent. ( brief glitch with iMac Pro having a higher entry price. But in iMac spectrum ... Pro was still on top. )

The Neo somewhat lets the MBA get out of the role of "entry laptop" , but it isn't going back to that 'thinnest' niche. It is likely still going to be a one of the highest volume Macs.

If the iPhone Air eventually disappears it will be the sales, not the suffix, that motivates that verdict.

the Mac Studio is not named iMac because is substantively different from iMac 27" (large screen) , but it did replace that product. No embedded display panel is worthy of a name change.
 
.... Note that the power and Ethernet port are intended for laptop users as neither is of significant interest to a Mac Mini or Studio user. I will qualify the last statement in that the ASD has a 5G Ethernet port, which could be of interest with an owner of a Mini with the base 1G Ethernet port. One additional comment, a desktop computer needs an Ethernet port.

ASD as in Apple Studio Display? There is no Ethernet port.

"
Connections
Two Thunderbolt 5 ports (up to 120Gb/s) and two USB-C ports (up to 10Gb/s)

  • One upstream Thunderbolt 5 port ( ) for host (with 96W host charging)
  • One downstream Thunderbolt 5 port () for connecting high-speed accessories or daisy-chaining additional displays
  • Two USB-C ports (up to 10Gb/s) for connecting peripherals, storage, and networking
..."


There now a decent number of Thunderbolt docks that have 2.5GbE. But a 'docking display' combo that is relatively rare. And certainly extremely rare at lower price points.
(and example at about $1K.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/del...5qe/apd/210-bqhs/monitors-monitor-accessories
)


Apple's stance toward Ethernet ports is rather tepid.
1 GbE (a standard laid down in the last century) as a default , if you can get it. Entry iMac has none. Apple has a 'war' on wires . It tends to hurt them in the desktop space. To get to a Ethernet port with a standard defined in the current century you have to climb all the way to the top of their desktop line up.

Non-junk desktops on the Windows PC side relatively tend to start out at 2.5GbE. Don't have to get anywhere near $2K to get a default that is past 1GbE.


It does like the Studio Display would be more of an incremental upgrade rather than a massive upgrade to the $300 LG.

The Studio Display is more than just a display panel. if the camera, sound , and display are a substantial jump then that is more of what paying for. If have a great camera and great speakers.. it has a more narrow value proposition.
 
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