the NEW switching from 35mm thread

[wmmk]

OK, I know I did one of these before, but I've done more research on the cameras, I've found prices from reputable vendors (I was looking at amazon before), and most importantly, I actually have the money to buy a camera (and a laptop) and I'm thinking of going to Ritz tomorrow afternoon to make the final purchase. After purchasing a laptop and all neccesary accesories for laptop and camera, I'll have $860 to $1160 to spend on the camera, lense(s), and maybe a flash or small tripod. So I've been thinkin' about:
Pentax K10D, 18-55mm kit, $999
Nikon D70s, 18-200mm kit (quantaray lense), $1059
Pentax K100D, 18-55mm kit (with extra $$ for a macro possibly), $699

 

[greenmac]

Nikon D70s, 18-20mm kit (quantaray lense), $1059

I'm not sure what lens you are talking about here, But what is wrong with the nikkor kit lens 18-70mm?

If you are looking at K100D, what about the Nikon D50?
The D50 is actually a great camera with not too much difference to the D70s, and at a much better price, although it has been discontinued so you might need to be quick to get one, or you could wait and see if Nikon release the D60.

Any reason you have neglected Canon? the Eos 400D (Rebel xti) is another great camera.

And what I now know after buying my camera, and what a lot of people on this forum will tell you, look at what lenses you may want in the future, then pick a body to suit the lens.

Then really its best for you to pick up the cameras in a store play with them and see what feels best for you. If you want to read some reviews http://www.dpreview.com/

 

[dogbone]

If you are tight for cash do be aware that purchasing a D70s will open you up to the possibility of a *huge* range of easily obtainable pre digital lenses.

The depth of field button though gets in the way for non AI lenses so make sure any old lens you get is an AI. A good example of a great lens is the 55mm micro nikkor the ƒ3.5 will be non AI and the ƒ2.8 will be AI.

 

[beavo451]

If you are tight for cash do be aware that purchasing a D70s will open you up to the possibility of a *huge* range of easily obtainable pre digital lenses.

The depth of field button though gets in the way for non AI lenses so make sure any old lens you get is an AI. A good example of a great lens is the 55mm micro nikkor the ƒ3.5 will be non AI and the ƒ2.8 will be AI.

And those same lenses will work just as well on the D50...

 

[dogbone]

And those same lenses will work just as well on the D50...

Indeed, in fact Nikon is unique amongst camera makers in that apart from some specific anomalies like the dof switch on the D70, (which btw can be accommodated if necessary) *all* Nikons lenses from the 50's and onwards will fit on all their Digital cameras and all their digital lenses will fit on the analogue cameras.

 

[wmmk]

I'm not sure what lens you are talking about here, But what is wrong with the nikkor kit lens 18-70mm?

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant 18-200mm lens. It's a quantray aned comes in a kit they sell at ritz/wolf.

If you are looking at K100D, what about the Nikon D50?
The D50 is actually a great camera with not too much difference to the D70s, and at a much better price, although it has been discontinued so you might need to be quick to get one, or you could wait and see if Nikon release the D60.

I like the K100D over the D50 because it has built in SR.

Any reason you have neglected Canon? the Eos 400D (Rebel xti) is another great camera.

I simply don't like the feel of the rebels, and the 20D is out of my price range.

And what I now know after buying my camera, and what a lot of people on this forum will tell you, look at what lenses you may want in the future, then pick a body to suit the lens.

thanks. that's great advice.

Then really its best for you to pick up the cameras in a store play with them and see what feels best for you. If you want to read some reviews http://www.dpreview.com/

I completely agree. That's why I'll be at Ritz this afternoon (hopefully)

Indeed, in fact Nikon is unique amongst camera makers in that apart from some specific anomalies like the dof switch on the D70, (which btw can be accommodated if necessary) *all* Nikons lenses from the 50's and onwards will fit on all their Digital cameras and all their digital lenses will fit on the analogue cameras.

Pentax is like that too, right? I mean, aren't all of their lenses K-Mount?

 

[cube]

Pentax teles are very hard to find.

There are 2 basic 35mm Pentax mounts and different versions of K, so caveats apply.

 

[cube]

Indeed, in fact Nikon is unique amongst camera makers in that apart from some specific anomalies like the dof switch on the D70, (which btw can be accommodated if necessary) *all* Nikons lenses from the 50's and onwards will fit on all their Digital cameras and all their digital lenses will fit on the analogue cameras.

This is very misleading.

Nikon compatibility chart for popular cameras

 

[Clix Pix]

Don't waste your money on a Quantaray lens. You will be very disappointed. There are much better choices, including Nikon's own 18-200 or 18-70 lenses and some from Tamron, Sigma and Tokina.

 

[cube]

A VR lens is better than sensor antishake because it also stabilizes the image in the viewfinder (and maybe it's more effective too).

 

[wmmk]

A VR lens is better than sensor antishake because it also stabilizes the image in the viewfinder (and maybe it's more effective too).

i see. but in the end, will that end up costing a lot more? also, are there many VR lenses available? if i can find a nice VR zoom, i might go for the D50.

 

[ChrisA]

OK, I know I did one of these before, but I've done more research on the cameras, I've found prices from reputable vendors (I was looking at amazon before), and most importantly, I actually have the money to buy a camera (and a laptop) and I'm thinking of going to Ritz tomorrow afternoon to make the final purchase. After purchasing a laptop and all neccesary accesories for laptop and camera, I'll have $860 to $1160 to spend on the camera, lense(s), and maybe a flash or small tripod. So I've been thinkin' about:
Pentax K10D, 18-55mm kit, $999
Nikon D70s, 18-200mm kit (quantaray lense), $1059
Pentax K100D, 18-55mm kit (with extra $$ for a macro possibly), $699

I hope you really like the Quantaray lens because you will never be able to sell it. They are worth about zero on theused market while Nikor lenses typical re-sell for about 60% or their new price.

On the Nikon side the D50 is a much better deal then is the D70s. The two camera do almost the same thing but the D50 costs less. Put a d50 with 18-55 and a D50 with 18-70 on your list of candidates.

 

[cube]

Pentax would be cheaper, but they also won't have ultrasonic lenses until next year (3).

Nikon has 6 VR lenses. Canon has more IS lenses, but nothing like the 18-200 VR (at the price and size).

Sigma has 1 OS lens now and 1 more announced for next Spring (18-200, which might be a bit cheaper than the Nikon).

The Nikon 18-200 is in high demand, so it's more expensive now that when it just came out (it used to cost $699).

I really like the K10D, but it's the lenses that push me to Canon or Nikon.
Canon lures me with IS, DO, and FF, but it looks like with the Nikon 18-200 I could bear with an SLR for travel, although I will miss the 24mm equiv. (I have been traveling with a film Pentax Espio 24EW (24-105) because there's nothing as compact in digital, plus I was not convinced about choosing around 6mp over film). But if Kodak solves the speed and noise issues of the P880 in a new camera starting at 24mm I will probably just go for that: not pocketable like the Espio, but much less bulk than an SLR (and cheap). Of course, I would prefer Panasonic to finally sort out their noise problems, and offer a pocketable 24mm camera with IS. Or even better, pocketable 24mm SuperCCD Fuji with IS.

BTW, I only got the Espio because I bought it on short notice. I would have preferred the Fujifilm Zoom Date 2.8 (24-50).
I have been eyeing the Fujifim Natura 1.9, but I am not convinced about shooting EVERYTHING at 24mm when I travel.

 

[beavo451]

i see. but in the end, will that end up costing a lot more? also, are there many VR lenses available? if i can find a nice VR zoom, i might go for the D50.

Lens VR/IS technology is better than in body IS. Where VR/IS is most useful is on telephoto focal lengths. In-body IS effectiveness diminishes as the focal length increases. So with in-body IS, you might get 1/2 to 1 stop effectiveness at 200mm, where as on lens IS will get you 3-5 stops effectiveness.

 

[cube]

See D40 thread for Staples in-store deals for D50 with 18-50.

You can call them to look up item #613565 in your ZIP.

Or you can ask Best Buy to price match (they won't find anything online so some guy made them search dpreview for "D50 $529 staples" and it worked).

A 24-120 VR (36-180 equiv.) costs about $500.

 

[cube]

Remember the D50 has no DOF preview or viewfinder grid.

 

[dogbone]

This is very misleading.

Nikon compatibility chart for popular cameras

No, not really. Basically the chart says what I said. It's only the AI lenses that don't fit straight on. But you can still fit them if you want to quite easily. And I did leave out the early autofocus that was made specifically for a single camera. But most people would be more interested in fitting early lenses on to digital not the other way.

Fact is that if you have a nikon digital you will have the largest option by a long long way of fitting top quality pre digital lenses to it.

 

[cube]

But you need at least a D200 to meter with pre-AI-P lenses.

 

[dogbone]

But you need at least a D200 to meter with pre-AI-P lenses.

Look, the point is that nikon have a huge range of analogue lenses that are easily available all over the world. These are lenses that were best in class when they came out and are still excellent.

Take the 105mm ƒ4 micro nikkor, still considered by some to be one of their (or anybody elses) very finest macro lenses, digital or analogue and still available for a couple of hundred bucks.

It goes without saying that an old analogue lens is not going to use all the electronic functions on later cameras. That is why they are cheap, because the average person in the street would rather the convenience of plug and play. But the savvy user who is after great quality and doesn't have a lot of spondulax to throw around knows that he can use a hand held meter and manual focus and pick up a bargain lens. Not only that but the early lenses are tough mo fo's.

 

[cube]

What can I say... Those old lenses are not supported by DxO, so F100 RULES! ($350).
F6 would be better but it's still too expensive and I expect it will continue to be, if you can find one in the future.

 

[ChrisA]

Look, the point is that nikon have a huge range of analogue lenses that are easily available all over the world. These are lenses that were best in class when they came out and are still excellent.

Take the 105mm ƒ4 micro nikkor, still considered by some to be one of their (or anybody elses) very finest macro lenses, digital or analogue and still available for a couple of hundred bucks.

It goes without saying that an old analogue lens is not going to use all the electronic functions on later cameras. That is why they are cheap, because the average person in the street would rather the convenience of plug and play. But the savvy user who is after great quality and doesn't have a lot of spondulax to throw around knows that he can use a hand held meter and manual focus and pick up a bargain lens. Not only that but the early lenses are tough mo fo's.

Let's get the terminology reasonable: ALL lenses are analogue and these are no digital lenses. In the Nikon line the distinction is between manual focus and auto focus. And (with some exception) either type of lens can be used on either film or digital camera.

Nikon did the lens switch-over well before the first digital camera was out Nikon has a system for talking about lenses. it goes non-AI, AI AI'd AIS These are all of the manual focus kind. Then came "AF" and they made "AFS" Other marks like "DX" mean "small sensor format" and "G" means the lens lacks an aperture ring.

One interesting type is "AI'd". When the AI system came out everyone already had non-AI lenses. Nikon sold conversion kits that was just a replacement aperture ring with a bit less metal. Many people converted the lenses without the kit using a milling machine Even today you can still get a lens converted for about $35. People who are very brave can do the conversion at home with a hand file or dremmel.

So if you are willing to do the AI conversion ANY Nikon lens will work on the D50 with very little exception. And yes, those older lenses were best
in their class and are still very good. They will capture more details than the D50 can record with it's 6MP sensor.

 

[dogbone]

@ChrisA

Thanks, I'm aware that lenses are not digital or analogue I was using the term in the sense that the lenses while not being restricted to digital or analogue capture were primarily optimised for either digital or analogue cameras, either due to functions available like electronic shutter coupling, or things like the smaller size of the sensor.

But basically all I was really saying is that unlike every other make of camera if you are short of cash and you get a modern nikon you will have access to a sh*tload of top quality older lenses at cheap prices , and for those starting out in photography this can be very useful. Doing things manually can keep the novice in tune with the fundamentals of photography rather than relying on auto everything.

 

[sjl]

Canon lures me with IS, DO, and FF

I'd only count one of those as a good reason to go Canon over Nikon. Canon's IS is equivalent to Nikon's VR (Image Stabilisation / Vibration Reduction); I don't know what sort of comparison can be drawn in terms of quality of the tech, or the range of lenses that have it available. (I can find info about Canon's lens lineup very easily, but I have no idea where to look to find out about Nikon's current lineup.) [Edit: just saw the earlier post in more depth. Don't worry about the extent of how many lenses the two companies have in IS or VR - worry about whether the lenses you want have it.]

DO is overrated. There are only two diffractive optics lenses available from Canon at this time: the 400mm f/4L, and the 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM. Of those, the only one I'd seriously consider owning is the 400mm, and at over ten grand Australian, I can't justify the cost. If DO is as good as some people claim it is, why hasn't Canon brought out more lenses that use it?

That leaves full frame. Very nice to have, but by no means essential - right now, I'm saving up for lenses so I can switch over to a full frame (the 24-105mm f/4L IS will do the job nicely, unless they bring out a 24-70mm f/2.8L IS before I've finished saving), but to be completely honest, I can live without it. It's a long term goal, rather than a short term need. And given that full frame bodies start at $AU3000 (or more), well ...

Yes, I shoot Canon, but I dislike seeing differences overhyped as advantages, no matter which system those differences might promote.

 

[Buschmaster]

Be a rebel, get the K100D. Did you end up making it to the Ritz?

Also, if you're willing to wait for the K10D, that'll be an impressive camera... Probably a lot better than the K100D, but with the K100 you'd still be able to get a lot of other stuff.

 

[compuwar]

Nikon D70s, 18-200mm kit (quantaray lense), $1059

Steer away from reseller made "kits." At least the Nikon kits have halfway decent glass- Quantaray doesn't make any lenses that are desirable. If you're on a budget, check KEH for used Nikon glass.