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The Next Big MMO?

leman said:
I am very sceptical about The Elder Scrolls Online because Bethesda never could deliver a good, balanced and engaging RPG system, which is of absolute importance in a MMO. I don't see them making an interesting MMO.
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I'd disagree in what Bethesda has produced, maybe not perfect, but is the absolute best RPGs I've been exposed to. I went through an RPG phase and was trying everyone that came along. ;) I admit that one of the big draws for me is Oblivion's and Skyrim's open worlds. I love them. The main story line is good, although in Skyrim they eradicated spell forging (whatever they called it). :( I created some kick-ass spells in Oblivion.

However, I agree with you regarding an Elder Scrolls MMO. There is reason to be skeptical because it could be just another late comer trying to cash in on the MMO craze and Blizzard's coattails.
 
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Huntn said:
I'd disagree in the Bethesda has produced, maybe not perfect, but the absolute best RPGs I've been exposed to. I went through an RPG phase and was trying everyone that came along. ;) I admit that one of the big draws for me is Oblivion's and Skyrim's open worlds. I love them. The main story line is good, although in Skyrim they eradicated spell-working (whatever they called it). :( I created some kick-ass spells in Oblivion.
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Well, the RPGs I started with were the excellent Fallout and Baldur's Gates series. After that, Oblivion and Skyrim are a bit... lackluster... For me, their dialogues are badly written, game mechanics are very irritating. I agree on the open world bit, but then again, the best open-world game I know is still GTA III: San Andreas :) Bethsesda's worlds, although visually stunning are repetitive and I get easily bored of them. I had high regards for both Oblivion and Skyrim (and Fallout 3, as well), and all of them were a disappointment to me.

I did enjoy Morrowind, because it was really new and unique at that time.
 
niuniu said:
All MMOs by nature have no ending.
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Doesn't mean all people (who play MMOs) spend all their time on them trying to complete them.

I know many people that only play a few hours a week. I know more people that spend endless hours playing xbox live than MMO's.
 
niuniu said:
Different people spend different amount of time playing games? Thanks for that, I'm sure someone out there wasn't aware.
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Apparently you weren't. People need to stay away from MMO games, because people don't have self control, but other types of games are ok?
 
niuniu said:
Really, I wasn't aware that different people spend a different amount of time playing games? :D
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I am not sure if I should answer that, because we seem to be going in circles. Either way, "Stay away from MMOs. They suck your life and soul away. Do it now before you learn the hard way". AKA play any other type of game, it won't suck your life away.
 
ericrwalker said:
I am not sure if I should answer that, because we seem to be going in circles. Either way, "Stay away from MMOs. They suck your life and soul away. Do it now before you learn the hard way". AKA play any other type of game, it won't suck your life away.
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We don't know what a soul is, or if it exists. Games don't actually have the ability to 'suck' life out of people. So if you're trying to take what I wrote literally at least do a good job of it, not some half-arsed effort.
 
niuniu said:
We don't know what a soul is, or if it exists. Games don't actually have the ability to 'suck' life out of people. So if you're trying to take what I wrote literally at least do a good job of it, not some half-arsed effort.
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You seem to be loving this, all I was saying is that it doesn't matter what type of game it is. Some people spend way too much time on Tetris, some play for a reasonable amount of time. Same goes for MMOs. :rolleyes:

Can we hug and make up now?
 
ericrwalker said:
You seem to be loving this, all I was saying is that it doesn't matter what type of game it is. Some people spend way too much time on Tetris, some play for a reasonable amount of time. Same goes for MMOs. :rolleyes:

Can we hug and make up now?
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You said and are still saying that different people spend a different amount of time playing games. Yes, much to my amusement. :D

If you were serious you'd have tackled the issue of MMO hooks which have become insidiously advanced as the subscription model has all but died in the genre (eg. developers had to save SW:TOR pre-release from Sony) and publishers are aggressively developing the meta-game around micro-transactions and regular play reward.

These concepts are also filtering through to other genres, such as FPS (eg. FPSRPG, FPSMMO) with the aim of keeping players hooked.

And about the 3 hour a week MMO players - they're looked down on and often the bane of the community as they're often underskilled, undergeared, less knowledgeable and waste the time of more experienced players. Casuals, noobs, bambi spikers etc all levelled at them in game, and they voice back their frustration calling experienced gamers 'no-lifers'. It's a community rift that has gutted many games (AION EU for example).
 
niuniu said:
And about the 3 hour a week MMO players - they're looked down on and often the bane of the community as they're often underskilled, undergeared, less knowledgeable and waste the time of more experienced players.
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They better just stick to questing then.
 
niuniu said:
All MMOs by nature have no ending until the publisher runs out of money to support it. To call that 'misleading', is itself misleading.
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Not at all. The fact that MMOs have no ending is common knowledge. There is no conclusion to a persistent world until most players loose interest. You seem to misunderstand how MMOs function, but no hard feelings. :)

I acknowledge that MMOs can be major time time sinks, but my point was and continues to be that depends on the individual player. Just because you may lack control, does not mean that others can't control the excesses of their urges. ;)
 
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ericrwalker said:
They better just stick to questing then.
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Many do try that, some even just craft a little without participating in pve/pvp.

Unfortunately the genre has such interconnection between most aspects of gameplay that eventually many casuals will be pushed into less casual types of gameplay.

This is my main issue with MMO's - they've become clever at converting a casual into a non-casual player which then consumes more of their gametime (peer pressure to attend at specific times, competitive pressure to farm/craft/grind for armor etc)

I can't think of anything outside of gambling that has such powerful hooks at converting the player-base. Actually, I've seen gambling hooks introduced into MMOs in recent years.

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Huntn said:
The fact that MMOs have no ending is common knowledge. You seem to misunderstand how MMOs function, but no hard feelings. :)
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Tell me how they function, since I misunderstand.
 
niuniu said:
Tell me how they function, since I misunderstand.
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You mentioned that MMOs have no end like it was some kind of revelation. That is entirely the point, the intent, and for anyone who knows MMOs, it's not a revelation.

You also implied it is impossible to participate in a MMO without having your "life and soul sucked away". You should only speak for yourself. :D
 
Huntn said:
You mentioned that MMOs have no end like it was some kind of revelation. That is entirely the point, the intent, and for anyone who knows MMOs, it's not a revelation.

You also implied it is impossible to participate in a MMO without having your "life and soul sucked away". You should only speak for yourself. :D
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I think MacRumors has sucked my life away. :D Actually I try to not post when I am not at work, I do make exceptions though.
 
Huntn said:
You mentioned that MMOs have no end like it was some kind of revelation. That is entirely the point, the intent, and for anyone who knows MMOs, it's not a revelation.

You also implied it is impossible to participate in a MMO without having your "life and soul sucked away". You should only speak for yourself. :D
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You said my premise was wrong, without stating what you thought my premise was. Part (and certainly only part) of my premise would be that MMO's have no singular aim, or ending. Since you said my premise was wrong, I have no option but to assume that you disagree with this.

I have asked you to explain, but you seem to dodge the question. So I'll ask again:

What is my premise, and why is it wrong?
You said I misunderstand how MMOs function - tell me how it is you came to know my understanding of how they function, and why is it wrong?
 
Huntn said:
Lol, have your screen hider active and your network address hidden/scrambled.

Wait, stop reading this, get back to work!! :):)
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I tend to keep this up all the time at work. I usually have a few computers up at work, that I am working on, or assisting someone remotely. As long as my work is getting done, and I am not on porn sites I am good (the chive might be questionable).

At home my wife, daughter and household things take up all my time and there is still never enough time.
 
lol, I'm satisfied I saw Dofus & Wakfu mentioned in here somewhere.

I kinda wonder how they survive since nobody I know actually pays for subscription anymore. :D
 
niuniu said:
You said my premise was wrong, without stating what you thought my premise was. Part (and certainly only part) of my premise would be that MMO's have no singular aim, or ending. Since you said my premise was wrong, I have no option but to assume that you disagree with this.

I have asked you to explain, but you seem to dodge the question. So I'll ask again:

What is my premise, and why is it wrong?
You said I misunderstand how MMOs function - tell me how it is you came to know my understanding of how they function, and why is it wrong?
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Zzzzzz
 
Huntn said:
Zzzzzz
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Exactly what I thought when you made your pop-phil remark about a 'misleading premise' from what was simply a hyperbolic comment earlier. But out of courtesy I decided to engage with you on a level that discussion of a premise would require. You asked for that.

Must be convenient to make ridiculous comments about premises that were never made and accusing people of misunderstandings without having the confidence, intellectual honesty, courtesy or know-how to back those comments up.

You only look bad when you hit and run. Don't be the new renewed. Take note from ericwalker, he had a go at me, and had the decency to follow up on what he said.
 
niuniu said:
Exactly what I thought when you made your pop-phil remark about a 'misleading premise' from what was simply a hyperbolic comment earlier. But out of courtesy I decided to engage with you on a level that discussion of a premise would require. You asked for that.

Must be convenient to make ridiculous comments about premises that were never made and accusing people of misunderstandings without having the confidence, intellectual honesty, courtesy or know-how to back those comments up.

You only look bad when you hit and run. Don't be the new renewed. Take note from ericwalker, he had a go at me, and had the decency to follow up on what he said.
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I'm not fighting with you. As a blanket statement your premise, "MMOs suck the life and soul out of you" is mistaken, misleading, which I told you in my very first reply, and flat wrong and you are giving bad advice. Maybe you and others can't control your MMO urges, but there are lots who can, who can manage it, and enjoy it immensely. I'm done explaining this to you. You've broadcast your warning about MMOs. I do agree that for some it's a good warning, but not for all, and that is what I disagreed with. This happens to be a pro- MMO thread, with most participants looking forward to new offerings. I'm moving forward from there.
 
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