The possibility that the 8800 GS is an underclocked card, and other GPU notes.

[chaosbunny]

Except that for $40 more than the stock top-dog iMac with Applecare and 4Gb of aftermarket RAM, you can get an XPS 630 with a proper desktop board + 3Ghz C2D, 4Gb/500, a 2408WFP, 4-year onsite warranty and 8800GT's in SLI

And for about $2000 less you can get a XBox 360 for gaming...

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

 

[QCassidy352]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I don't quite understand why we keep seeing these arguments.

Surely people here at a Mac site is not that interested in a PC, not to mention a Dell to boot.

He was simply saying that this is the first time in many years where the entire range of products have a fairly good GPU/VPU.

The key is that this desktop lags behind the competition, and that nothing has really changed.

lags behind - in terms of pure hardware power, yes. (but these iMacs are still capable of running any game game out there, and running it well, so even on hardware power, one might say "who cares.")

The dell, by contrast, lags far behind on aesthetics, power consumption, footprint, and last but not least, OS and bundled software.

Judging the value of a computer purely based on its hardware components is just... Well, I'll be nice and call it "silly."

 

[Eidorian]

The key is that this desktop lags behind the competition, and that nothing has really changed.

I don't see much of a point to keep making the iMac thinner. It was thin enough as it was. Apple limits what it can do with the form factor they've choosen just for looks.

How does the aesthetics of the hardware help me use Terminal or RDC?

 

[I am Sampson]

Are we sure it really is a 8800 GTS??? I just don't understand why apple would say its a GS when its really a GTS. There must be a reason they would undersell it, they clearly know more about it than us, so perhaps its not quite a GTS so they have to call it a GS even though its better than a GS? I dunno...

 

[Niklaas]

When the say 8800 GTS everybody with a Mac Pro plus 8800 GT will scream WTF !
Also the 8800M GTS has nearly the performance from an desktop 8800 GS.

 

[ceres]

I don't see much of a point to keep making the iMac thinner. It was thin enough as it was. Apple limits what it can do with the form factor they've choosen just for looks.

How does the aesthetics of the hardware help me use Terminal or RDC?

Judging by the "quality" of the screens I have had to whitness last year on my 24" Alus the iMac is already too thin. Thin limits performance too much. Really, nobody would mind if the Al iMac had the white iMac´s dimensions.

 

[ROFISH]

Really, nobody would mind if the Al iMac had the white iMac´s dimensions.

Possibly, but to stuff a real 8800 or 9600 in there would require some loud fans and/or extra copper heatsinks to push the heat out. Using all mobile equipment and chips for the all-in-one is a decent compromise for heat and has an added bonus of making it thin.

I'm definitely with the 'just a prosumer Mac, not an expensive Mac Pro w/ Xeons, not the Mini with too little of everything, not the inupgradable iMac with slower mobile chips, just a simple midrange tower Mac' crowd. :/

(I'd also be happy with a single dual core option for the Mac Pro, lowering the price by $1000. I don't need octo cores, I need PCI-E ports.)

 

[D4F]

Possibly, but to stuff a real 8800 or 9600 in there would require some loud fans and/or extra copper heatsinks to push the heat out. Using all mobile equipment and chips for the all-in-one is a decent compromise for heat and has an added bonus of making it thin.

I'm definitely with the 'just a prosumer Mac, not an expensive Mac Pro w/ Xeons, not the Mini with too little of everything, not the inupgradable iMac with slower mobile chips, just a simple midrange tower Mac' crowd. :/

(I'd also be happy with a single dual core option for the Mac Pro, lowering the price by $1000. I don't need octo cores, I need PCI-E ports.)[/QUOTE]

then go to apple store, click buy on Mac Pro and change the specs to 1x quad core.
You get a price in the iMac range while having a quad core setup.

 

[luffytubby]

Im surprised that the 8800 card in Imac, will use GDR3 memory. 512 of it! Should make it pack more of a punch than similiar GDR2 memory cards?

 

[flopticalcube]

Im surprised that the 8800 card in Imac, will use GDR3 memory. 512 of it! Should make it pack more of a punch than similiar GDR2 memory cards?

The HD2600 also uses GDDR3. Does the 8800 even come in GDDR2 form?

 

[furious]

Any more news on the graphics cards. Like benchmarks.

 

[ROFISH]

(I'd also be happy with a single dual core option for the Mac Pro, lowering the price by $1000. I don't need octo cores, I need PCI-E ports.)

then go to apple store, click buy on Mac Pro and change the specs to 1x quad core.
You get a price in the iMac range while having a quad core setup.

It doesn't take it down enough. MP with 8800GT and one CPU is $200 more than the highest iMac. And that doesn't even include the screen. One of the advantages is that I get a nice H-IPS 24" screen too with the iMac.

Basically the MP is way to prohibitively expensive to come without a monitor. (And don't tell me I could use my own, I'm still on a 19" CRT I want to get rid of, but any decent LCD in the 24" range that isn't crap is $500+)

 

[ceres]

It doesn't take it down enough. MP with 8800GT and one CPU is $200 more than the highest iMac. And that doesn't even include the screen. One of the advantages is that I get a nice H-IPS 24" screen too with the iMac.

Basically the MP is way to prohibitively expensive to come without a monitor. (And don't tell me I could use my own, I'm still on a 19" CRT I want to get rid of, but any decent LCD in the 24" range that isn't crap is $500+)

The MP is a great value only matched by the MB and the 24in AL screen is not "nice" at all. Actually it´s close to being useless for anyone vaguely interested in display quality. It´s leagues behind Apples white 24in iMac and will probably remain so at least until the next MAJOR hardware overhaul in summer/autumn.

 

[molintorch]

Any more news on the graphics cards. Like benchmarks.

Someone told me today where to find the HL2: Lost Coast Video Stress Test (I had Orange Box installed), so I ran it on both my MPB and my iMac tonight, heres how it turned out

MBP (1024x768) - 84 fps avg
MPB (1440c900) - 57 fps avg
iMac (1024x768) - 200 fps avg
iMac (1920x1200) - 142 fps avg

I also have CoD4 and World in Conflict; if there are benchmarks in those as well then just let me know where to find them. Enjoy

P.S. while the benchmark was running on the MPB, sounded as loud as my old tower use to, but on the iMac, I never heard the fans at all.

 

[hookem12387]

The MP is a great value only matched by the MB and the 24in AL screen is not "nice" at all. Actually it´s close to being useless for anyone vaguely interested in display quality. It´s leagues behind Apples white 24in iMac and will probably remain so at least until the next MAJOR hardware overhaul in summer/autumn.

I'd always heard it was a good monitor, just glossy

 

[furious]

Someone told me today where to find the HL2: Lost Coast Video Stress Test (I had Orange Box installed), so I ran it on both my MPB and my iMac tonight, heres how it turned out

MBP (1024x768) - 84 fps avg
MPB (1440c900) - 57 fps avg
iMac (1024x768) - 200 fps avg
iMac (1920x1200) - 142 fps avg

I also have CoD4 and World in Conflict; if there are benchmarks in those as well then just let me know where to find them. Enjoy

P.S. while the benchmark was running on the MPB, sounded as loud as my old tower use to, but on the iMac, I never heard the fans at all.

Thank you so much. Now to pay off my card and start all over again. Only kidding. I have money just need to wait for a quite few weeks after exams so that I can play.

This update is so cool. I held off buying the last gen because the GPU was less than I would like I expected at least 8800 to make it an appearance this time round and was rewarded.

 

[ceres]

I'd always heard it was a good monitor, just glossy

Yes, it´s a good panel and the glossy finish didn´t bother me that much to be honest but every 24in I have seen suffered from a noticeable gradient and tinting. The backlights / inverter seem to be the problem. The AL iMac with the white 24in screen would be magnificient machine and great value. My hopes are riding on the Montevina upgrade in summer.

 

[MattZani]

any news on OC'ing the card to GTS speeds? Or did I miss something and GPU-Z already said it was at GTS speeds?

I have pretty much decided on te top end iMac instead of the 2.5Ghz macbook pro, as I'm quite the gamer, and having an 8800 GTS is amazing!

 

[mattcube64]

Someone told me today where to find the HL2: Lost Coast Video Stress Test (I had Orange Box installed), so I ran it on both my MPB and my iMac tonight, heres how it turned out

MBP (1024x768) - 84 fps avg
MPB (1440c900) - 57 fps avg
iMac (1024x768) - 200 fps avg
iMac (1920x1200) - 142 fps avg

I also have CoD4 and World in Conflict; if there are benchmarks in those as well then just let me know where to find them. Enjoy

P.S. while the benchmark was running on the MPB, sounded as loud as my old tower use to, but on the iMac, I never heard the fans at all.

Awesome! Thanks for that... my main concern with the iMac has always been game performance. And I know, to a lot, that shouldn't be important when buying a Mac. But if I'm gonna drop two grand or more on a computer, I wanna play some games from time to time.

Were those with all settings on high, or highest? Also, could you just tell me how those other two games run, with high settings, compared to, say, and Xbox 360 title?

Thanks!

 

[ROFISH]

any news on OC'ing the card to GTS speeds? Or did I miss something and GPU-Z already said it was at GTS speeds?

I have pretty much decided on te top end iMac instead of the 2.5Ghz macbook pro, as I'm quite the gamer, and having an 8800 GTS is amazing!

It's already at stock 8800M GTS speeds. I haven't heard if people were able to unlock the extra 32 stream processors for GTX speed though. (It's a crapshoot if you're able to.)

Yes, it´s a good panel and the glossy finish didn´t bother me that much to be honest but every 24in I have seen suffered from a noticeable gradient and tinting. The backlights / inverter seem to be the problem. The AL iMac with the white 24in screen would be magnificient machine and great value. My hopes are riding on the Montevina upgrade in summer.

Boards around here says that this new update fixed a lot of those problems except for backlighting.

 

[I am Sampson]

Thats shockingly good scores for lost cost!
I still really struggle with the whole GTS thing. I agree its specs look like a GTS, what I don't understand is why apple say its a GS if its a GTS. Why understand if there is no reason too? There must be something going on.

 

[Eidorian]

Thats shockingly good scores for lost cost!
I still really struggle with the whole GTS thing. I agree its specs look like a GTS, what I don't understand is why apple say its a GS if its a GTS. Why understand if there is no reason too? There must be something going on.

Apple wants you to believe it's the desktop 8800GS.

 

[Sesshi]

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lags behind - in terms of pure hardware power, yes. (but these iMacs are still capable of running any game game out there, and running it well, so even on hardware power, one might say "who cares.")

The dell, by contrast, lags far behind on aesthetics, power consumption, footprint, and last but not least, OS and bundled software.

Judging the value of a computer purely based on its hardware components is just... Well, I'll be nice and call it "silly."

As is judging a computer purely by the aesthetics and how idiot-resistant the OS is. I outgrew the bundled software in a month. What about life beyond the JRDF-addled period

I also find it hard to believe - given the cable management capability of the monitors that many Apple owners also own - that anyone would be stupid enough to believe the somewhat widely bandied about promotional image of the iMac vs the older XPS desktop. A 2408WFP takes a smaller footprint on your desk than a 24" iMac, and moreover it is more ergonomically adjustable. The footprint under your desk - does it matter a lot? I mean, these are all pedantic points but the mention of them just indicates a total lack of understanding of anything but Apple marketing.

 

[ozthegweat]

Has anyone found a way to use the 8800 on the new iMacs with Vista 64bit? There seem to be some drivers for the 8800M GTS, but they are not WHQL signed, which doesn't allow them to be installed on 64bit Vista. Or is it possible to bypass that?