The start of the end for me

[leman]

I said Apple slipped up...in other words, had a misstep. Apple has not addressed the pro market with the available chips out there. They can come out with a very Apple MBP and use better chips while not compromising their ethos.

Sorry, but which faster chips were available in October 2016, when the MBP was refreshed last?

The ATI chips can be replaced with NVIDIA, Apple can get them selves the latest from Intel who is rushing out chips now to compete with AMD.

Do you think that Nvidia can ship millions of GPUs that Apple needs? Besides, as far as I know Nvidia GPUs lack support of multi 4K display, which was important to Apple. There will be reasons why Apple doesn't have the contract with Nvidia, and I'd really like to know them — but the fact is that neither you nor me are aware of the business details, so you "could have" is a bit naive

Apple can use faster more current memory, instead of legacy memory. There are improvements in these details that would hush everyone.

As was discussed over and over again, they are using LPDDR3 because a) its more power-efficient than the DDR4 and b) Intel CPUs do not support LPDDR4. As to "faster more current" — LDPPR3 is still more premium memory than the standard DDR4 and the speed is basically identical as they have the same clocks (and yes, this years XPS uses a slightly faster DDR4 2400, which will translate to les the half a percent real-world performance difference).

 

[theluggage]

So this tale is about a guy with an "ancient" MBP that died, but when he turned to buy a new one, it couldn't handle all of the "work he threw at it."

Rather, Guy who has an ancient MBP reasonably expects premium-priced replacement to be a head-and-shoulders upgrade in every important respect and offer the same level of future proofing that allowed his existing machine to serve him for so long.

Personally, I spent £2k on money on a 2011, 2.2GHz i7, 17" MBP when I could have "made do" with a sub-£1k Windows laptop. I've been rewarded with a laptop that has done "everything I threw at it" for 6 years, with the benefit of only a few hundred quid spent on a mid-life RAM upgrade, SSD and data-doubler.

The 2016, 2.6 GHz MBP is 30-40% faster on GeekBench - better than a poke in the eye, but any up-to-date quad i7 will offer that and its not going to turn a coffee-break job into real time or open up previously unthinkable computing possibilities.

The retina display might sound like a clear win but my MBP spends most of its time on an elevator stand next to an external display - and in that scenario, physical size is at least as useful as the higher res (the 17" 1220p display is verging on "retina" at that viewing distance), so its at best a zero-sum game. For the same reason, the touch bar is of little interest/use since I mostly use a separate keyboard. Fortunately that makes the hate-it/tolerate-it keyboard and the "just because big is good doesn't mean bigger is better" trackpad that has problems with 3-finger drag less of an issue...

The 2016 MBP can't take any more RAM than the 2011 model. My 2011 currently has 1.2TB of internal storage: 512GB system SSD and a 720GB HD in the optical bay. Getting more than 512GB SSD in the 2016 MBP costs a small fortune, more than 1TB costs two small fortunes and you have to buy all the RAM and SSD you're ever going to need on day one. No upgrading later if prices drop or your needs change. If, in 18 months time, a new storage tech such as Optane takes off that would potentially give the machine a new lease of life (as did the availability of affordable SSDs for my 2011 MBP) then, tough.

...and, qv. ad nauseum elsewhere, switching everything to USB-C would be a pain for me with no obvious immediate upside. Give it a year or two and it might be worth switching.

So its not that the 2016 MBP wouldn't be a reasonable upgrade in some respects, its that there are too many other areas that are a compromise, and it really doesn't feel like a machine which is still going to be earning its keep in 2023.

My other option would be to abandon the idea of a single, do-it-all laptop and go for a desktop + cheaper ultraportable solution. Unfortunately, Apple's only "cheaper ultraportable" is the outdated Air and we're still waiting on updated desktops. If my MBP went phut tomorrow, by far the most straightforward solution would be to get either a 2015 MBP or the current iMac plus an Air.

...and that's me thinking about upgrading from a 6 year old MBP - not sure what permutation of misconceptions would tempt anybody with a 2014 or 2015 machine to upgrade, which can't be good news for Apple.

 

[CaptRB]

Rather, Guy who has an ancient MBP reasonably expects premium-priced replacement to be a head-and-shoulders upgrade in every important respect and offer the same level of future proofing that allowed his existing machine to serve him for so long.

Personally, I spent £2k on money on a 2011, 2.2GHz i7, 17" MBP when I could have "made do" with a sub-£1k Windows laptop. I've been rewarded with a laptop that has done "everything I threw at it" for 6 years, with the benefit of only a few hundred quid spent on a mid-life RAM upgrade, SSD and data-doubler.

The 2016, 2.6 GHz MBP is 30-40% faster on GeekBench - better than a poke in the eye, but any up-to-date quad i7 will offer that and its not going to turn a coffee-break job into real time or open up previously unthinkable computing possibilities.

The retina display might sound like a clear win but my MBP spends most of its time on an elevator stand next to an external display - and in that scenario, physical size is at least as useful as the higher res (the 17" 1220p display is verging on "retina" at that viewing distance), so its at best a zero-sum game. For the same reason, the touch bar is of little interest/use since I mostly use a separate keyboard. Fortunately that makes the hate-it/tolerate-it keyboard and the "just because big is good doesn't mean bigger is better" trackpad that has problems with 3-finger drag less of an issue...

The 2016 MBP can't take any more RAM than the 2011 model. My 2011 currently has 1.2TB of internal storage: 512GB system SSD and a 720GB HD in the optical bay. Getting more than 512GB SSD in the 2016 MBP costs a small fortune, more than 1TB costs two small fortunes and you have to buy all the RAM and SSD you're ever going to need on day one. No upgrading later if prices drop or your needs change. If, in 18 months time, a new storage tech such as Optane takes off that would potentially give the machine a new lease of life (as did the availability of affordable SSDs for my 2011 MBP) then, tough.

...and, qv. ad nauseum elsewhere, switching everything to USB-C would be a pain for me with no obvious immediate upside. Give it a year or two and it might be worth switching.

So its not that the 2016 MBP wouldn't be a reasonable upgrade in some respects, its that there are too many other areas that are a compromise, and it really doesn't feel like a machine which is still going to be earning its keep in 2023.

My other option would be to abandon the idea of a single, do-it-all laptop and go for a desktop + cheaper ultraportable solution. Unfortunately, Apple's only "cheaper ultraportable" is the outdated Air and we're still waiting on updated desktops. If my MBP went phut tomorrow, by far the most straightforward solution would be to get either a 2015 MBP or the current iMac plus an Air.

...and that's me thinking about upgrading from a 6 year old MBP - not sure what permutation of misconceptions would tempt anybody with a 2014 or 2015 machine to upgrade, which can't be good news for Apple.

You are not part of the market that these machines are intended for and that's not Apple's fault.

I'm a writer and professional photographer, thus these new machines are among the very best choices for my multi-media needs.

I've never bought a computer with a plan to keep it more than 2 or 3 years, but if I wanted to keep one for that long I'd simply buy a higher spec model and I'd be fine. My usage is professional. I can't be bothered by tinkering and swapping drives and other hobbyist stuff. My time is worth a lot more than that. So when ANY tool becomes obsolete I replace it and also enjoy the benefits of that upgrade across the board.

You do have other choices, but Apple isn't obligated to design a machine that you can keep for 6 years.


R.

 

[theluggage]

You are not part of the market that these machines are intended for and that's not Apple's fault.

...and maybe next month Apple will decide that professional photographers aren't part of their intended market. I suspect that there are some people at Apple (you know, the ones who can't see why anybody would want anything other than an iPad Pro, think that emojis on the touch bar is a selling point for a $2k pro laptop and get really excited over watch bands) who'd be more than happy to release XCode for Windows/Linux and kill the Mac completely.

can't be bothered by tinkering and swapping drives and other hobbyist stuff.

It takes about 15 minutes, plus the time to copy your old drive to the new one (which you can leave unattended). Your friendly local computer dealer would be more than happy to do it for a modest fee if wielding a screwdriver is beneath you, and in my case it doubled the lifespan of an expensive computer.

You do have other choices, but Apple isn't obligated to design a machine that you can keep for 6 years.

Except it does help of you want to keep customers for 6 years plus. I've bought other Apple bits and pieces in those 6 years (that I probably wouldn't have bought if I didn't have a Mac), advised work colleagues on buying Macs and fully expected to be spending several grand on a new Mac last year. Plus, as I said, if I had a 2/3 year old MBP I'd have even less incentive to upgrade right now.

 

[CaptRB]

...and maybe next month Apple will decide that professional photographers aren't part of their intended market. I suspect that there are some people at Apple (you know, the ones who can't see why anybody would want anything other than an iPad Pro, think that emojis on the touch bar is a selling point for a $2k pro laptop and get really excited over watch bands) who'd be more than happy to release XCode for Windows/Linux and kill the Mac completely.


And if that happens I'll buy something else. No big deal.



It takes about 15 minutes, plus the time to copy your old drive to the new one (which you can leave unattended). Your friendly local computer dealer would be more than happy to do it for a modest fee if wielding a screwdriver is beneath you, and in my case it doubled the lifespan of an expensive computer.


Sorry, not interested in keeping old tech going. I buy a new system every 2-3 years and this has worked perfectly for me.



Except it does help of you want to keep customers for 6 years plus. I've bought other Apple bits and pieces in those 6 years (that I probably wouldn't have bought if I didn't have a Mac), advised work colleagues on buying Macs and fully expected to be spending several grand on a new Mac last year. Plus, as I said, if I had a 2/3 year old MBP I'd have even less incentive to upgrade right now.

Sorry again, but Apple is not selling computers and systems hoping people keep them for 6 years! Nor is Dell or HP. I don't know anyone in real life (except in these complaint forums) who keeps ancient laptops. They are not the majority. Even my 77 year old father upgraded his 2013 rMBP when he saw mine!


R.

 

[iShater]

I actually appreciate these types of threads, because for many of us it is a difficult decision to decide if we should stay the course with Apple or jump ship, or wait, etc.

I had to to decide where to go next with my personal systems and the new MBPs were NOT for me. I hate the new keyboard, and the price is just insane.

However, the 2015 15" MBP are my favorite laptops (my one at work), and I basically ended up getting a 2nd hand one from ebay. For the long upgrade cycle that I have (5+ years) I think I will be set for a while before having to worry about the upgrade again.

While I love OSX, some of the design features of the MBP were game changers (MagSafe is my favorite example), and those are no longer differentiating factors when you take the performance and specs of alternatives.

 

[zone23]

This sure feels like one of those threads when someone buys something other then a Mac then tries to justify the purchase by boasting about how great the non Mac computer is. I bought a new Macbook Pro non TB top of the line but did not make a thread about how great I think it is.

 

[CaptRB]

This sure feels like one of those threads when someone buys something other then a Mac then tries to justify the purchase by boasting about how great the non Mac computer is. I bought a new Macbook Pro non TB top of the line but did not make a thread about how great I think it is.

You're right. And I have sympathy for former, or about to be former, apple owners who are unhappy with the new machines.

But if you hate the latest MBP upgrades you're in the minority. Most like the new keyboard, trackpad, screen and speakers and most have little issue with USB-C.

If you had tried the new MBP (and I mean REALLY tried it) and still can't work with it, that's a drag. But move on with your life! Buy something else.


R.

 

[fastbagger]

I posted a while ago about my dissatisfaction with the new MacBook Pros. Despite my grumblings I had intended to hang out until any late 2017 releases to see if Apple had listened before I made up my mind about jumping ship or not. That was until the discrete graphics card died last week in my admittedly ancient MPB. I had to make a choice. It wasn't even close, I compared specs (albeit 7th gen i7 vs Apple's 6th gen), price, software, my specific narrow needs, etc. and I ended up getting a top-end gaming laptop made by a major company (that I won't name so I can't be accused of promoting them). (Note: I found gaming laptops suited my requirements more than standard ones)

I received the new thing on Saturday, 32gb RAM, 4GB discrete graphics and other really solid stuff. It's blazingly fast and just sucks up the work I throw at it. For half the price of the highest spec MBP that still doesn't come close to the specs. Oh, and it's designed for easy user access for upgradeability purposes. It took me a while to get some of my software and testing kit working but I had to sacrifice nothing in functionality for my work needs.

Do you know the only thing I'm missing with not having my MBP? Integrated messaging between my MBP, iPhone an iPad. It's annoying not being able to respond to texts and messages on my laptop and see them replicated on my iPhone. Also, the trackpad is not as good quality but then I use that maybe twice a day max when I'm too lazy to reach for my mouse.

I'm now thinking that there's no point in me staying loyal to my iPhone when it starts to get on a bit, same with my iPad.

The cash cow has left the field and has gone to another farmer's field who gives better food while demanding less.

A friend pointed out that Apple seem to have cloned the senior managers who destroyed Nokia, RIM (Blackberry), Nortel Networks, IBM, etc. The figures they give to investors and the stock market are far more important than recognising that those figures are solely driven by how hard they can milk their cash cows and that the cows can move on at will if they become severely dissatisfied.

And finally, to keep this on-topic for this thread, my view on the MBP these days? Designer handbag for college students to show off how much money they have. It's certainly no longer a mobile workstation for those who might need one.

Try Push Bullet

 

[theluggage]

Sorry again, but Apple is not selling computers and systems hoping people keep them for 6 years!

Of course not. What they're failing to do is sell new systems to people with 6-year-old computers.

Its not as if I'm the only one out here still sticking with a "classic" MBP, Mac Pro, 3-4 year-old Air.

Apple have been trumpeting their "4%" growth in Mac sales quarter-on-quarter as if its a triumph - but this is the first major re-design of the MBP since 2012 and comes after an 18 month+ period without even a spec bump. Pretty much Everybody with a MacBook Pro should have been queuing to upgrade - not just those who habitually buy a new Mac every year or two.