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Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
Well, I do not know about Arm overtaking x86 or not. It will depend on whether Qualcomm can deliver on its promise of competing with Apple's M1, on whether Intel will be able to develop x86 to make it more competitive, and on whether AMD will chose to go the Arm route. In any case, even if x86 is overtaken, it will not be a very fast process, as the first viable Arm processors for PC will probably hit the market in 2022 or later.

I think buying a computer right now to last for 10 years is a risky move anyway. The future looks somewhat cloudy, and, while x86 will probably be supported for the next decade, we still do not know what the next 5 years will look like.
Arm is really only a catalyst, something that's showing what a rut x86 design has gotten into and really showing up its age... the real damage will be from within, with AMD looking into Arm, but especially Intel now sniffing around RISC V/ SiFive. If Arm and RISC V chips prove cheaper and easier to design it's probably not all that hard to see more and more resources diverted away from x86 development. That's a huge issue for an architecture where 100% of R&D funding come from just 2 big companies vs dozens in the case Arm and RISC V.
 

doctrsnoop

macrumors member
Feb 28, 2014
35
36
My laptop is nearing 10-years old. Thus I'm starting to do some research on any potential new computer purchase. The problem is, I feel like currently we are in the worst time to buy a new computer. I feel that we are at the tail end of x86. And unlike phones, I expect my computer to last for around 10 years, not 4 or 5.

Problem 1: Windows 11
As expected, my Windows 10 laptop is not eligible for Windows 11 because it doesn't have a supported processor. Problem is, Microsoft drew a really harsh line on processor requirements, with minimum being 8th gen intel, which were just released in 2018. That's just three years ago. Sure, Windows 10 is supported until 2025. However, it begs the question whether an x86 computer I buy today would even be supported on a future version of Windows 5 years from now. Highly suspect. Of course, coincidentally 2018 is roughly the first batch of Snapdragon supporting Windows 10 SoCs. With Microsoft themselves doing their own ARM chips, to me Windows 11 is akin of the "Big Sur" of Windows, aka it's a telltale of Microsoft' transition to ARM, by quickly abandoning anything 4 years or older x86 processors. It really begs the question if buying a Windows computer today (which are not cheap thanks to the shortages), a good idea if the whole x86 platform is being left behind?

Problem 2: intel
We know intel's lackluster performance per watt, although they boosted their performance a bit with the 11th gen. But what if intel themselves are ditching x86? Intel is acquiring SiFive. That's a huge hint of intel themselves are transitioning. Of course, the problem for a consumer is that today, intel is still making x86 processors. But it's not a good feeling when you bought an expensive laptop, and see the processor manufacturer itself abandoning the architecture mere years after. Then you add the Windows anxiety above.

Problem 3: the rest are moving to ARM
nVidia is acquiring ARM. That's obvious. Qualcomm is doubling down on their Windows supporting SoCs. Even AMD is rumored to have ARM processors in the making. And of course, we have Apple, the first in line.

So why I think it's the worst time to buy a computer (that I want to last and supported for 10 years or so)? As a consumer, I feel:
- right now, I see expensive x86 laptops at the tail end of the architecture
- consumer ARM solutions for Windows is not yet here, so we are in a transition vacuum
- looking at Apple, also expensive, they only have the M1 ready at this point, and Apple is known to drop support of machines more aggressively

It's obvious that Microsoft's stringent Windows 11 system requirements is to nudge people to buy new computers. But as a more tech savvier consumer, now I feel that I would need to hold on to my old PCs even longer to wait for the ARM transition instead of wasting money on a dead-end x86 architecture. 🙃:confused: Here's hoping my laptop is not dying anytime soon.
Because of Intel's glacial pace I disagree with the premise. If they announced tomorrow a full-on transition to ARM it would still take 5 years, as they have NO great ARM products in the pipeline. If such an announcement even happens it would be a few years from now for if and when they reach a dead end to x86 development.

As long as you make sure the computer has TPM 2.0 you will be good to go for 10 years.

As for Apple dropping machine support aggressively its only because they make so many advances quickly in hardware. 2012 Mac's were pretty much good to go until last year, 2020, not bad really.
 

steelhauler34

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2019
345
251
Why? What are your issues with Windows?

My experience through many years is windows always gets clogged after a few years and basically will hardly run. Way back on the day I can’t count how many times I had to completely wipe and reload everything on my pc’s. My wife’s dell laptop is 4 years old. She did the some restore when it was completely unusable 4-5 months ago that made it barely useable. At work we had handheld computers that ran windows and they sucked. The ones we have now run Android and are flawless. I had one iMac I bought in 2009. It ran and booted up fine until I dropped it last year and wasted the screen. My wife won’t spend the money on a Mac book and I won’t waste the money on a pc.
 

raqball

macrumors 68020
Sep 11, 2016
2,323
9,573
My experience through many years is windows always gets clogged after a few years and basically will hardly run. Way back on the day I can’t count how many times I had to completely wipe and reload everything on my pc’s. My wife’s dell laptop is 4 years old. She did the some restore when it was completely unusable 4-5 months ago that made it barely useable. At work we had handheld computers that ran windows and they sucked. The ones we have now run Android and are flawless. I had one iMac I bought in 2009. It ran and booted up fine until I dropped it last year and wasted the screen. My wife won’t spend the money on a Mac book and I won’t waste the money on a pc.
My experience has been much different.. I flop back and forth between macOS and Windows. Currently typing this on a M1 Air and just ordered a Dell XPS...

Both OS's have pluses and minuses.. When I am on macOS I miss specific things from Windows (and I need a few win programs that won't run on Mac) and when on Windows I miss things macOS has to offer...

I've had issues and problems, both hardware and software, with both. Windows 10 has caught up to, and in some cases, passed macOS in usability (my .02)..

In my opinion neither has a glowing advantage. If you are deep in the Apple ecosystem then obviously macOS is the better choice. However for those not entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, Windows 10 is solid and has a lot to offer..

I am pretty deep into both ecosystems so I don't look at things with blinders on.. I get it, this is a predominately a Mac / Apple forum so bashing and hating on Windows and Android is expected..
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Because of Intel's glacial pace I disagree with the premise. If they announced tomorrow a full-on transition to ARM it would still take 5 years, as they have NO great ARM products in the pipeline. If such an announcement even happens it would be a few years from now for if and when they reach a dead end to x86 development.

As long as you make sure the computer has TPM 2.0 you will be good to go for 10 years.

As for Apple dropping machine support aggressively its only because they make so many advances quickly in hardware. 2012 Mac's were pretty much good to go until last year, 2020, not bad really.
The old intel, I wouldn't be worried. But then intel just acquired SiFive, and from their own press releases, it gives quite a bit of hints on where things are going. That abrupt move from intel thus made me think that intel themselves are ditching x86, despite of their own marketing.

As for TPM 2.0, sure, but then again, Microsoft's own action of putting a requirement of 2018 processors or newer for Windows 11, makes me think they might be more aggressive in their future processor support, mimicking Apple to push the upgrade cycle of PCs.

Basically the traditional companies of Microsoft and intel right now are behaving inconsistent from the way they were, thus it brings uncertainty for me as a consumer on my purchasing decision. 😂
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
My experience has been much different.. I flop back and forth between macOS and Windows. Currently typing this on a M1 Air and just ordered a Dell XPS...

Both OS's have pluses and minuses.. When I am on macOS I miss specific things from Windows (and I need a few win programs that won't run on Mac) and when on Windows I miss things macOS has to offer...

I've had issues and problems, both hardware and software, with both. Windows 10 has caught up to, and in some cases, passed macOS in usability (my .02)..

In my opinion neither has a glowing advantage. If you are deep in the Apple ecosystem then obviously macOS is the better choice. However for those not entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, Windows 10 is solid and has a lot to offer..

I am pretty deep into both ecosystems so I don't look at things with blinders on.. I get it, this is a predominately a Mac / Apple forum so bashing and hating on Windows and Android is expected..
Yep, I've been happy with W10, if anything Big Sur is my problem OS currently, though I do use my Mac a lot more than my Windows laptop, so more opportunity to see bugs and glitches. I'm looking forward to trying it on an Apple Silicon machine, and also W11 on an up to date Windows machine in the future :)
 
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OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
But then intel just acquired SiFive, and from their own press releases, it gives quite a bit of hints on where things are going.
Intel has not acquired SciFive. There are rumors that Intel is bidding on SciFive and Intel has announced it will fab SiFive cores on 7 nm. But I don't think the sale has been confirmed by anyone.
That abrupt move from intel thus made me think that intel themselves are ditching x86, despite of their own marketing.
I think Intel sees the writing on the wall. The list of x86's advantages are getting shorter and shorter. But I don't think they are ready to ditch x86 — yet.
Basically the traditional companies of Microsoft and intel right now are behaving inconsistent from the way they were, thus it brings uncertainty for me as a consumer on my purchasing decision. 😂
I don't think there is any good advice apart from wait if you can for laptops and AMD's Zen 3 for desktops.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,562
New Hampshire
My experience through many years is windows always gets clogged after a few years and basically will hardly run. Way back on the day I can’t count how many times I had to completely wipe and reload everything on my pc’s. My wife’s dell laptop is 4 years old. She did the some restore when it was completely unusable 4-5 months ago that made it barely useable. At work we had handheld computers that ran windows and they sucked. The ones we have now run Android and are flawless. I had one iMac I bought in 2009. It ran and booted up fine until I dropped it last year and wasted the screen. My wife won’t spend the money on a Mac book and I won’t waste the money on a pc.

I built a large Windows system and haven't had any performance issues over time. I suppose that you could reinstall from time to time but I haven't found that necessary. If you configure the system properly it should run fine over the long haul unless you're leaving a lot of stuff around - but you could do that on macOS too.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,562
New Hampshire
Yep, I've been happy with W10, if anything Big Sur is my problem OS currently, though I do use my Mac a lot more than my Windows laptop, so more opportunity to see bugs and glitches. I'm looking forward to trying it on an Apple Silicon machine, and also W11 on an up to date Windows machine in the future :)

W10 is the best Windows I've ever used. It runs fine on my 2008 Dell XPS Studio to my 10700 system. Great support for really old systems.

I've just started using Big Sur on M1 and it's fine for me. It didn't run well on my older MacBook Pros.
 
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Sydde

macrumors 68030
Aug 17, 2009
2,563
7,061
IOKWARDI
I recall MS struggling to make Windows apps run well on ARM. The biggest translation problem (i.e., if you are going to directly convert x86 object code to ARM object code is the inherent chaos in the ARMv8 CPU core. Stuff happens whenever, which is rarely a problem except that x86 programs are strictly coded to expect program-order-sequenced memory accesses whereas ARM is, meh, we will get to it, unless we already just did. So translated code tend to be heavily salted with DMBs, which of course is almost always a performance penalty. It is a pretty interesting thing, to envision how a code translator could discern critical passes where hard or slightly mushy memory ordering would be important.
 

progx

macrumors 6502a
Oct 3, 2003
829
967
Pennsylvania
So why I think it's the worst time to buy a computer (that I want to last and supported for 10 years or so)? As a consumer, I feel:
- right now, I see expensive x86 laptops at the tail end of the architecture
- consumer ARM solutions for Windows is not yet here, so we are in a transition vacuum
- looking at Apple, also expensive, they only have the M1 ready at this point, and Apple is known to drop support of machines more aggressively

It's obvious that Microsoft's stringent Windows 11 system requirements is to nudge people to buy new computers. But as a more tech savvier consumer, now I feel that I would need to hold on to my old PCs even longer to wait for the ARM transition instead of wasting money on a dead-end x86 architecture. 🙃:confused: Here's hoping my laptop is not dying anytime soon.
Damned if do. Damned if you don’t?

If you feel you need to upgrade, then just buy any Ryzen 5 or 7 PC. You’ll be fine for at least five years. While the Arm and RISC-V transition is beginning, we’re barely through the front door of this new place we’re walking into now. There were so many great posts made about the subject, so I’ll provide a direct answer: buy one if you need it, don’t worry about being obsolete since it will take a while.

Not to mention, how many people still have old Macs running Core and Core 2 Duo? You can easily have it as a server or repurpose any old machine to serve a function. Hell, there’s old PowerPC Macs still running today. Someone on this forum still uses a 2005 PowerMac G5 as their main driver, but they have a 16” MacBook Pro as well. Not sure if it’s an M1 equipped MBP or an Intel one. Either way, you can transition to something new (whether X86 or Arm based) and still have the old machine as a backup.

My long term plan is to keep my late 2018 Mac mini Core i7 for a server and just grab a MacBook Air or iMac in the future. Plus, I’m armed with a Radeon 570 4GB eGPU and 32GB of RAM, it’ll have some legs for a while. I don’t play games on my mini, but it’ll house my data going forward so I don’t have to keep transitioning every 5-6 years.

I have a Ryzen 5 3600 build, which I might do one more X86 one before I go Arm on Windows.
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
The reports of x86 death are greatly exaggerated. Just look at what is happening.
  1. Apple released the M1 in November 2020. More than one year later, there is no sign of a successor. According to some of the latest rumors, Apple may have an 18-month release window between M-series processors.
  2. More than one year after Apple release the M1, manufacturers have yet to come up with an Arm-based competitor. Qualcomm is announcing its competitor to be released in 2023 (I would guess Q4 2023).
  3. Intel is counter-attacking. It changed its CEO, hired an Apple engineer who worked on the development of the M1, and is announcing that its 12th gen processor is faster than Apple's in some circumstances.
It is too early to say that the x86 is gone. It will still be around for years to come. Most PCs sold in 2022 (and perhaps in the foreseeable future) will still have the x86 inside.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
the new line of PC laptops that are being released this spring are incredible!
the new Dell XPS laptop had a 12 core, 19 processor and a hidden trackpad that act on touch sensor.
but
this is an fanboy site and PCs, intel will get their acclaim, but more tarnish.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
The reports of x86 death are greatly exaggerated. Just look at what is happening.
  1. Apple released the M1 in November 2020. More than one year later, there is no sign of a successor. According to some of the latest rumors, Apple may have an 18-month release window between M-series processors.
  2. More than one year after Apple release the M1, manufacturers have yet to come up with an Arm-based competitor. Qualcomm is announcing its competitor to be released in 2023 (I would guess Q4 2023).
  3. Intel is counter-attacking. It changed its CEO, hired an Apple engineer who worked on the development of the M1, and is announcing that its 12th gen processor is faster than Apple's in some circumstances.
It is too early to say that the x86 is gone. It will still be around for years to come. Most PCs sold in 2022 (and perhaps in the foreseeable future) will still have the x86 inside.
From the date I originally posted the thread (mid 2021) to now (early 2022), there are some changes in the market that brings a bit of relieve.

I'm noticing more and more Ryzen based laptops, allowing better value for the dollar compared to Intel. Intel is still pushing premium pricing, especially for their 11th gen. Makes no sense spending that much money for Intel today, especially since their own 12th gen will be a paradigm change. Thankfully AMD is bringing common sense back.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,562
New Hampshire
I just bought a 2014 iMac 27 and it is quite nice for office stuff. I upgraded to 32 GB of RAM and I could run my entire office stuff off of this system but not my workflow stuff. The big draw on this system is the iMac 27" screen and the speakers and that I don't have cables all over the place. It does not have the neck-snapping speed of Apple Silicon but I have two Apple Silicon systems for that. I am somewhat questioning my need for the M1 mini on the desktop right now. I also have an M1 PRO MacBook Pro and it is a great mobile system.

If you want to run macOS, then your options are Intel and Apple Silicon and it's clear that Apple's timetable has been greatly affected by the pandemic. But I think that they continue on and are successful with it. A good chunk of it is the ecosystem. Intel has executed well too while AMD has been napping somewhat on the CPU-front but their 3D technology looks great - but we won't see it for a while.

I can Hackintosh which gives me a lot of options but one of the nicest benefits of Apple Silicon is the deflationary effect that it's had on older Macs. This means that I don't have to go through the headaches of setting up and maintaining hackintoshes. It's not horrible - just some work from time to time.

I wonder if Intel would have responded the past 18 months if it weren't for Apple Silicon. I do hope that Apple continues to support x64 for another four or five years as it gives us tinkerers more options.
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
From the date I originally posted the thread (mid 2021) to now (early 2022), there are some changes in the market that brings a bit of relieve.

I'm noticing more and more Ryzen based laptops, allowing better value for the dollar compared to Intel. Intel is still pushing premium pricing, especially for their 11th gen. Makes no sense spending that much money for Intel today, especially since their own 12th gen will be a paradigm change. Thankfully AMD is bringing common sense back.
I bought an LG Gram 17 equipped with an 11th gen Core i7 back in October. I am very happy with it so far (I even made a review of it on this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/lg-gram-17.2320107/).

I knew that the 12th gen was just around the corner and that the whole Intel architecture could be destroyed by something else in the coming years. It did not matter.

I live in Brazil and I happened to find this laptop for a very good price ($1450, down from a launch price of $2650 back in May 2021). Now, the LG Gram 17 is sold out countrywide and I cannot find it elsewhere for any price, so I am happy I got it. Plus, even if LG launches a new Gram (which it will probably do), it will not arrive here in Brazil before mid-2022. If it ever arrives: LG launched its Gram line here in 2018 and it stuck with 8th gen Intel laptops until it launched new models only in 2021, three years later.

There will always be something else around the corner. Intel is launching the 12th gen, AMD is trying to dethrone Intel, Qualcomm is entering the arena. Plus, Samsung is shipping OLED displays with a 90 Hz refresh rate. Manufacturers are gearing up to significantly upgrade webcams for the first in several years following their increased use during the pandemic.

The biggest upgrades are just around the corner. All the time. This is how companies keep the interest of the consumer up so they can sell the next device. I am not saying I will not buy it; I definitely will. However, it may take some time before all these advances make into consumer devices. Plus, I am not buying the first laptop with a Qualcomm Arm chip or the first with a 90 Hz OLED display. I will wait for these features to make into more laptops, so I can have more options to choose from.

My LG Gram 17 will probably be just fine for some 3 years.
 
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Bodhitree

macrumors 68020
Apr 5, 2021
2,068
2,200
Netherlands
I don’t think x86 is going anywhere. There’s a huge catalog of software, there is an ecosystem of hardware enthusiasts, there’s a mountain of legacy hardware, its market share will shrink slowly if at all, even if performance lags. Apple has been making products with a superior design for years, and it hasn’t moved the needle, except that some PC manufacturers have stepped up their game and started releasing slicker laptops.

It was interesting to see that AMD said that their 2022 processors will be using a new socket, AM5. The AM4 socket has lasted five years, which means that if you’d bought an AMD-powered machine in 2016 you could take a 2021 processor and drop it in as a 1-for-1 replacement without major surgery. Also AMD has been managing a 15-20% rate of improvement on cpu speeds every year since the original Zen architecture came out, often outpacing Intel. Those two things convince me that AMD machines are where you want to be for a new PC desktop for the next few years.

For a laptop, the M1 MacBook Air is great value for money, you get a high-spec machine for your shekels. Although it might be worth waiting for the M2 version, which might not be that far away.

But honestly, if you spend your money wisely, it’s likely that any machine you buy today is going to be capable of doing what you ask of it ten years down the line. And if you get a PC you’d be well advised to get a Windows 11 compatible machine, but aside from that I don’t see many problems with software support.
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
I just bought a 2014 iMac 27 and it is quite nice for office stuff. I upgraded to 32 GB of RAM and I could run my entire office stuff off of this system but not my workflow stuff. The big draw on this system is the iMac 27" screen and the speakers and that I don't have cables all over the place. It does not have the neck-snapping speed of Apple Silicon but I have two Apple Silicon systems for that. I am somewhat questioning my need for the M1 mini on the desktop right now. I also have an M1 PRO MacBook Pro and it is a great mobile system.

If you want to run macOS, then your options are Intel and Apple Silicon and it's clear that Apple's timetable has been greatly affected by the pandemic. But I think that they continue on and are successful with it. A good chunk of it is the ecosystem. Intel has executed well too while AMD has been napping somewhat on the CPU-front but their 3D technology looks great - but we won't see it for a while.

I can Hackintosh which gives me a lot of options but one of the nicest benefits of Apple Silicon is the deflationary effect that it's had on older Macs. This means that I don't have to go through the headaches of setting up and maintaining hackintoshes. It's not horrible - just some work from time to time.

I wonder if Intel would have responded the past 18 months if it weren't for Apple Silicon. I do hope that Apple continues to support x64 for another four or five years as it gives us tinkerers more options.
Apple will still support x86 for at least 4-5 years.

Apple still sells Intel versions of all its Macs, even those which already received M1 models. And, perhaps more importantly, all Mac Pros still carry Intel processors. A Mac Pro is a computer aimed to be replaced less frequently than other Macs. Plus, according to rumors, Apple may still launch another Intel Mac Pro alongside an M-series version.

I think it is likely that Apple continues supporting Intel Macs for some 10 years.
I don’t think x86 is going anywhere. There’s a huge catalog of software, there is an ecosystem of hardware enthusiasts, there’s a mountain of legacy hardware, its market share will shrink slowly if at all, even if performance lags. Apple has been making products with a superior design for years, and it hasn’t moved the needle, except that some PC manufacturers have stepped up their game and started releasing slicker laptops.

It was interesting to see that AMD said that their 2022 processors will be using a new socket, AM5. The AM4 socket has lasted five years, which means that if you’d bought an AMD-powered machine in 2016 you could take a 2021 processor and drop it in as a 1-for-1 replacement without major surgery. Also AMD has been managing a 15-20% rate of improvement on cpu speeds every year since the original Zen architecture came out, often outpacing Intel. Those two things convince me that AMD machines are where you want to be for a new PC desktop for the next few years.

For a laptop, the M1 MacBook Air is great value for money, you get a high-spec machine for your shekels. Although it might be worth waiting for the M2 version, which might not be that far away.

But honestly, if you spend your money wisely, it’s likely that any machine you buy today is going to be capable of doing what you ask of it ten years down the line. And if you get a PC you’d be well advised to get a Windows 11 compatible machine, but aside from that I don’t see many problems with software support.
x86 is going to live for a long time, even if it falls behind in terms of performance. Intel is certainly investing heavily in improving its processors. Intel's core business is being threatened. If Intel manages to outperform Apple and everyone else, Apple may shift again to Intel and things go back as they were. If Intel fails to deliver, then it may even go bankrupt if Qualcomm or AMD or someone else exceeds expectations, but the architecture will remain for some time at least.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,562
New Hampshire
x86 is going to live for a long time, even if it falls behind in terms of performance. Intel is certainly investing heavily in improving its processors. Intel's core business is being threatened. If Intel manages to outperform Apple and everyone else, Apple may shift again to Intel and things go back as they were. If Intel fails to deliver, then it may even go bankrupt if Qualcomm or AMD or someone else exceeds expectations, but the architecture will remain for some time at least.

I don't see Apple going back to Intel as Apple has economies of scale over mobile, and now, PCs. Apple really got burned leaving their PC processors in Intel's hands. I really love what Apple Silicon has done for the MacBook Pro but I'm using an Intel iMac right now and thermals are much less of an issue on the desktop. It's better to have an efficient system, of course, but I'm no longer getting antsy waiting for an Apple Silicon iMac. The other really crazy thing is that it could be an M1 iMac 27 for all I care about. I don't really need more performance for my office stuff. I run my production on a Windows system because that's where the software runs best.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,854
4,594
From the date I originally posted the thread (mid 2021) to now (early 2022), there are some changes in the market that brings a bit of relieve.

I'm noticing more and more Ryzen based laptops, allowing better value for the dollar compared to Intel. Intel is still pushing premium pricing, especially for their 11th gen. Makes no sense spending that much money for Intel today, especially since their own 12th gen will be a paradigm change. Thankfully AMD is bringing common sense back.
I didn’t see this thread when it started last summer but knowing today what’s happening in the PC space, I don’t think you could go wrong with a notebook from Framework. Upgradable and highly configurable.

The only risk is if the company is still around in 8-10 years.

Edit: As of now they don’t have an AMD option unfortunately.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,854
4,594
the new line of PC laptops that are being released this spring are incredible!
the new Dell XPS laptop had a 12 core, 19 processor and a hidden trackpad that act on touch sensor.
but
this is an fanboy site and PCs, intel will get their acclaim, but more tarnish.
And to everyone’s apparent delight, it has a Touch Bar. 😬
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,133
14,562
New Hampshire
And to everyone’s apparent delight, it has a Touch Bar. 😬

Does it come with Flexgate too?

I follow tech reviews and the past year has had a lot of complaints about Dell over quality and customer service issues. Dell certainly has their share of bad years but they have been my #1 Windows supplier in the past.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,591
11,279
Would be nice if it's true that x64 is dead so there wouldn't be demand shortage of critical components like GPUs and DDR5 that cost multiple times over MSRP.
 
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