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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
I am not speculating though. Apple has deprecated kernel extensions in 2019 and has confirmed that support for kernel extensions will be completely removed in future versions of macOS. They been mentioning this in no unclear terms during the WWDC and also on the support forums.
The number of kernel extensions used by Apple is immense. I don't think they will be able to remove them from the OS anytime soon. Instead they will not support them and not sign them. Also, I would expect no further documentation so over time any use would be more difficult. But actually removing the kernel extension code would be a huge chore and there really isn't any reason to do so.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,678
The number of kernel extensions used by Apple is immense. I don't think they will be able to remove them from the OS anytime soon. Instead they will not support them and not sign them. Also, I would expect no further documentation so over time any use would be more difficult. But actually removing the kernel extension code would be a huge chore and there really isn't any reason to do so.

I don't think it's that unfeasible.

I mean, I get what you are saying. The main reason why monolithic kernels have failed is because interfacing with third-party hardware was a mess — you either had to bake a monstrously fat kernel that supports everything under the sun, or you used slow interfaces that absolutely killed performance. So as long as Macs support heterogenous hardware, kernel extensions are a necessity.

But Apple Silicon? It's an integrated system with a very limited selection of hardware components. You can absolutely bake all the essential drivers into the kernel, without any drawbacks. And you can still let the user have low-level interface to their storage systems, drivers, webcams and even custom extension boards via user-space drivers: those will offer "good enough" performance for most cases. Looking at the information found so far by low-level hackers, I have a strong suspicion that Apple Silicon is designed with high-performance user-space drivers in mind: they have very fast interrupts, which should in theory allow low-overhead communication between the driver and the kernel API.

So yeah, I do believe that couple of years down the road we won't have any third-party kernel extensions at all. Sounds like a logical thing to do and a natural direction, with Apple deprecating the kext APIs left and right. But of course, I might be mistaken. Time will tell.
 
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Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,101
1,312
So yeah, I do believe that couple of years down the road we won't have any third-party kernel extensions at all. Sounds like a logical thing to do and a natural direction, with Apple deprecating the kext APIs left and right. But of course, I might be mistaken. Time will tell.
I don’t think there’s actually much disagreement between you and jdb8167 about the emphasized bit there. Apple has flat out said this is where things are going.

However, I do have to agree with jdb8167 that Apple isn’t likely to chuck the whole thing out, just block access to it. While Apple could link everything into a single binary, they already get a lot of the benefit of doing that with prelinked kernels. I disagree that Apple Silicon will homogenize the kernel driver pool all that much, either. The last couple of years of Intel stuff are already pretty homogenous.

Apple still needs to be able to revision the drivers for different generations of SoCs as technology evolves/changes, or they simply change what module designs they include on the SoC. So we’ll still see a proliferation of drivers required over time anyways. Apple is likely to need to do the same with the GPU as well, unless they want their work there to get stagnant. There’s benefit to continuing to bundle Apple-written chipset drivers that enable docks/etc to work without installing additional drivers, but those don’t need to be prelinked at all.
 
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thedocbwarren

macrumors 6502
Nov 10, 2017
430
378
San Francisco, CA
Corellium claim that their Linux port for the M1 can talk to eGPUs using TB3. Unsure how far they’ve gotten with actually running off of it, but the TB hardware supports it just fine. Others have shown TB3 pcie network cards working on the Mac side. And others have mentioned other examples. So, hardware seems to be fine. Restrictions on more than 2 monitors and no eGPU seem to be due to lack of drivers/restrictions in software.
I
Don’t get your hopes up. I don’t think it’s likely that Apple will allow official eGPU integration because it violates the Apple Silicon GPU programming model.
That's what I'm think as well honestly. But more the design vs the programing model. The SoC is very integrated and benefits from the design.
 
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ArPe

macrumors 65816
May 31, 2020
1,281
3,325
It might surprise you, but that's exactly what GPU driver have been doing for decades and do today, with great success. Yes, GPU data synchronization is a complicated and channeling topic. But it's a solved problem.



Stop assuming that there is some weird magic to Apple's implementation that prevents it from using PCI-e for data transfers just like any other computer. On the memory organization level, there is little difference between an Intel SoC or an Apple SoC — it's just that the later is faster and smarter.
Don’t know who you are responding to but I said it is possible but not ready yet. They will probably drop it anyway in favour of Apple GPUs that they can have control and responsibility for.

One thing they can do immediately is open thunderbolt support for the Afterburner card.
 
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ArPe

macrumors 65816
May 31, 2020
1,281
3,325
Afterburner should already be working via Thunderbolt. The driver has been ported to ARM since the first Big Sur release.
Not yet not even on Intel. It’s blocked and only usable in Mac Pro.
 
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