There is NO reception issue. THE FACTS.

[drjsway]

When Apple makes a product with a serious defect... why do you want everyone to defect? Why is it ok for Apple to sell the defective product without dealing with it? Do you want all Apple products to have serious problems? Do you not care if Apple makes decent products? Do you want people to associate Apple with phones that can only make phone calls in strong signal areas?
What is your beef? Are you worried that you bought a product that people are complaining about? Is the product not 'cool' anymore, does that mean you're not 'cool'?

Why do people who do not have a problem get so worked up when folks who do have a problem with the new iPhone 4 talk about it?

If you don't have a problem great. You should be enjoying your fantastic phone. On the other hand, people who are experiencing a problem are complaining, trying to figure out more about the problem and in hopes that Apple will fix it.

I don't think everyone will defect because it doesn't affect most people in day to day use. The angry minority is the loudest, so it may seem like most people are unhappy, which is not true. I think every iPhone has this phenomenon so everyone is technically "affected" but not everyone cares. The very fact that most people still have their phones is evidence of that. If this problem were really that serious, people would be lining up to return their phones.

When I say "there is no issue", I don't mean I'm not experiencing this phenomenon. I am. But it's not an issue because it was intentionally designed that way. You can bet Apple field tested the hell out of the phone (in employees' houses, sans case). They found new phone gets much better reception than the 3GS normally but signal degrades if held a certain way. Apple thought it was worth the trade-off.

At this point, there are four options if you are unhappy: get a bumper, hold it differently, live with it, or return it. Most people here are not satisfied with any of these options and keep complaining in hopes Apple will fix it, which they might, but it's wishful thinking.

They've already denied the issue and if it were as simple as a software fix, they would've issued a statement saying, "We are aware of this problem and working on a fix." It would be a quick way to calm everyone down. Can you think of a reason they wouldn't say this if they had a fix? And for something that was intentionally designed that way?

So in the end, all this complaining will get you nowhere. I don't see how I'm being a fanboy when I advise returning the phone, which will hurt Apple's business. In fact, people returning the phone in droves be may the only way to get Apple to fix it.

 

[br0adband]

So in the end, all this complaining will get you nowhere. I don't see how I'm being a fanboy when I advice returning the call, which will hurt Apple's business. In fact, people returning the phone in droves be may the only way to get Apple to fix it.

But it won't hurt them, that's the point. They'll take the phones people return, wipe them to factory state, polish 'em up all nice and pretty, toss 'em in white boxes, slap a REFURBISHED sticker on the box, and resell them and make profit not once but twice off the same problematic devices.

Did you miss that part, somewhere down the line? Or was the Kool-Aid really that good...

 

[drjsway]

But it won't hurt them, that's the point. They'll take the phones people return, wipe them to factory state, polish 'em up all nice and pretty, toss 'em in white boxes, slap a REFURBISHED sticker on the box, and resell them and make profit not once but twice off the same problematic devices.

Did you miss that part, somewhere down the line? Or was the Kool-Aid really that good...

If people return their phones, Apple will make twice the profit? Is that really what you're saying?

Wow. Just wow.

I'm gonna make this simple. Let me know if I'm going too fast. When people return things, they give the money back to the consumers. Then they can try to sell it refurbished for a lower price, but that's if they can find buyers when everyone is returning it.

You gave Apple $600 (including the subsidy ATT paid). You are unhappy with the phone. Yet Apple still has all your money because you are not returning it.

 

[Jetaray]

But it won't hurt them, that's the point. They'll take the phones people return, wipe them to factory state, polish 'em up all nice and pretty, toss 'em in white boxes, slap a REFURBISHED sticker on the box, and resell them and make profit not once but twice off the same problematic devices.

Did you miss that part, somewhere down the line? Or was the Kool-Aid really that good...

Please explain how they make a profit TWICE if a phone is returned and a refund is given. In reality every phone that is returned and reconditioned cost the manufacture money, even when the unit is found defect free a loss is incurred. The product is no longer new and is usually sold for a lesser price and the expense of repackaging the product for another sale usually lowers the profit substantially when compared to the sale of a new item.

This is why returning a defective product or one that does not work as advertised is the only way to get a manufacture to fix design flaws. If a high percentage of units are returned, the losses begin to mount up to the point that the manufacture must fix any problems on new units to prevent future returns and lost revenue.

If people feel the need to just vent their frustrations this is the place to do it, but no amount of verbal complaining will ever cause a manufacture to make changes.

 

[ricb]

Yep. The wallet speaks. I'm sad about it, but I'll have to return mine if we hear nothing. I'll at least give it up until a few days before my 30-day window at ATT.

I wonder what ATT does with their returns? Just sit on them ,or return them to Apple with a 'frowny' global emoticon stamped on the box?

It's quite unfortunate - I love the phone but yeah, it's got to at least work like a phone since it's my only method of communicating, voice, text, etc.

I think it's great if there's people not experiencing the signal issue. Wonderful. I just know I'm seeing it. I drop nearly every call I've taken or placed - and that was only once in a while with my old 3G.

Maybe there will be an "iSignal" solution announced. Combo rubber bumper with an external antenna built in poking out of the top. You can even iExtend it (29.00 more for this feature) just like the old FM radios.

EDITED to say: Once you iExtend the antenna (one time 29.00 charge) - you can have access to all of the 80's hits in the i80's iTunes library for another one-time fee of $29.00!

 

[Slip Jigs]

I don't think everyone will defect because it doesn't affect most people in day to day use. The angry minority is the loudest, so it may seem like most people are unhappy, which is not true. I think every iPhone has this phenomenon so everyone is technically "affected" but not everyone cares. The very fact that most people still have their phones is evidence of that. If this problem were really that serious, people would be lining up to return their phones.

When I say "there is no issue", I don't mean I'm not experiencing this phenomenon. I am. But it's not an issue because it was intentionally designed that way. You can bet Apple field tested the hell out of the phone (in employees' houses, sans case). They found new phone gets much better reception than the 3GS normally but signal degrades if held a certain way. Apple thought it was worth the trade-off. K

At this point, there are four options if you are unhappy: get a bumper, hold it differently, live with it, or return it. Most people here are not satisfied with any of these options and keep complaining in hopes Apple will fix it, which they might, but it's wishful thinking.

They've already denied the issue and if it were as simple as a software fix, they would've issued a statement saying, "We are aware of this problem and working on a fix." It would be a quick way to calm everyone down. Can you think of a reason they wouldn't say this if they had a fix? And for something that was intentionally designed that way?

So in the end, all this complaining will get you nowhere. I don't see how I'm being a fanboy when I advise returning the phone, which will hurt Apple's business. In fact, people returning the phone in droves be may the only way to get Apple to fix it.

You've made about ten assumptions in this post, stated them as fact, and offered nothing to support them.

Nothing but a load of bollox if ya ask me...

 

[rburly]

So, the iPhone 4 is the worst voice phone Apple has made.

Yes it is.

I'm just quoting what apple said. You're holding it wrong and there is no issue. You're problem is with apple/jobs, not with me. If you're not happy, return the phone.

There is no "right way" to hold a phone. It should work without someone suggesting that I'm deficient in understanding how to hold a cell phone. How can so many people throughout the world have the same problem with holding a phone the "wrong way?" (rhetorical question) If you don't like the fact that so many people bought a phone with everything they wanted only to be told they can't hold the phone properly, think of what you're saying. And if you don't like discussion of this problem, don't read threads or posts about this problem.

 

[ricb]

You've made about ten assumptions in this post, stated them as fact, and offered nothing to support them.

Nothing but a load of bollox if ya ask me...

....agreed.

 

[rburly]

So, the iPhone 4 is the worst voice phone Apple has made.

Yes it is.

I'm just quoting what apple said. You're holding it wrong and there is no issue. You're problem is with apple/jobs, not with me. If you're not happy, return the phone.

There is no "right way" to hold a phone. It should work without someone suggesting that I'm deficient in understanding how to hold a cell phone. How can so many people throughout the world have the same problem with holding a phone the "wrong way?" (rhetorical question) If you don't like the fact that so many people bought a phone with everything they wanted only to be told they can't hold the phone properly, think of what you're saying. Also, if you don't like discussion of this problem, don't read threads or posts about this problem.

 

[finatk]

My iPhone4 works fine, my dad's iPhone4 works fine.

The 180+ handsets we have sold in my store to O2 customers are working fine...Placebo effect much?

 

[Eso]

The only fact discernible from this thread is that forum registration should be locked for at least a week after any Apple product launch.

 

[ricb]

What a mystery - so many (me included) seeing a problem, yet so many seeing no problem.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping for the best!

I have to admit, I'm enjoying this "you're not holding it right" camp. Please...I've owned many cell phones going back to the analog Motorola's that came in a pleather bag and I've NEVER had a problem with the way I held it. What a joke. Weak.

 

[br0adband]

If people return their phones, Apple will make twice the profit? Is that really what you're saying?

No, actually, that's not what I said, and reading is fundamental:

...and resell them and make profit not once but twice off the same problematic devices.

So it's more clear for you, that statement says: they sold the phone once, made a profit from the sale, then even in spite of it being returned, incurring some minimal expense for shipping it back to the factory, minimal expense for a simple test to verify - at least as far as Apple is or would be concerned - no defects (HA!), the phone would then be repackaged at minimal expense and then shipped back at minimal expense and sold a second time, at a lower price, while still making yet another profit.

I didn't say they'll make twice the profit (which would imply double the profit), I said that they would make profit on the phone twice (make a profit of some varying amounts twice from the same phone).

Apple works on a ~40% profit margin, they always have and sometimes - like in the situation with the Bumper that profit margin becomes pretty ludicrous - they'll make even more. But even in spite of minimal expenses incurred to take the phone back the first time, get the complete refurb cycle done, and the sell it a second time, they're not losing a dime anywhere.

Gotta pay attention to the words, folks. At least this guy or girl gets it:

Please explain how they make a profit TWICE if a phone is returned and a refund is given.

I didn't say twice the profit, I simple said they'll make a profit TWICE, big difference there. Jetaray caught it and understood it correctly. At least it appears he/she did...

You gave Apple $600 (including the subsidy ATT paid). You are unhappy with the phone. Yet Apple still has all your money because you are not returning it.

I didn't pay for it (it was a gift), and I already had AT&T service to begin with, it's a non-issue. It's not working as a phone so I don't really prefer to call it that, but you could say that yes I'm unhappy with this incredible piece of sophistication that's not working as a phone even when branded, designed, marketed, and sold as such.

Returning it is not enough.

 

[MacHamster68]

where is the point here? i come to work to london and i have seen thousands of iphone users around, but never ever a single one using the iphone as a phone holding it towards the ear
everyone is holding it in one hand in front of themselfs and pressing the screen with the other ....now i guess i know why

 

[Figbash Acrobat]

I, like others here, would like to say how appalled I am by someone claiming their opinion as fact... but, alas, I am not because this happens everyday on MacRumors (and most forums) and I'm growing more and more conditioned to accept the sad reality of it and move on.

Plus when over a 100 posts already debunk what is clearly faulty reasoning, there's no need for me to! Thank you to the still intelligent and functioning MR members!

 

[Tunster]

The only FACT relevant to this thread is that the OP is in denial .

 

[Figbash Acrobat]

The only FACT relevant to this thread is that the OP is in denial .

Yes, this. And that he clearly hates everyone with a brain who still think for themselves.
Though, you could make the case that he hates everyone without a brain, and wants them to accept unhappiness.

 

[rburly]

My iPhone4 works fine, my dad's iPhone4 works fine.

The 180+ handsets we have sold in my store to O2 customers are working fine...Placebo effect much?

All of us are very happy that you and your father's phones work fine.

The placebo effect has absolutely no place in this discussion. Has it occurred to you that likely most people experiencing this problem are waiting for a fix of some kind to occur, and just have decided to wait for Apple to address this "non issue"?

If Apple continues to deny, deny, deny, they're only hurting themselves with regard to future sales. Burn me once and I'll have learned my lesson when next June comes around.

 

[MacHamster68]

the fact is the iphone is not bad designed , just not clever designed as a phone as many people complain about bad or even no reception , i used mine in the car with handsfree kit so there was clearly no hand on the phone to cover a aerial while making calls ,but the reception was terrible or not existent at all , went to apple store had it replaced a bit better but still same problem so i sold it , took the loss and back my old nokia phone in the car because with that i never had any problems whatsoever even in the weakest reception spots , i can make phonecalls and receive texts , as thats all i need from a phone i dont use the mobile phone very often to make calls , but wheni use it i need a good reception , and i am not willing to sacrifice reception for some nice looking apps which i do not need anyway

btw the nokia fell once even in the bathtub full of water , all it needed was a night on the heater and perfectly working after ever since
it once fell out of my pocket on a motorcycle tour at about 70mph landed on the tarmac bounced of a couple time landed but apart from some tiny scratches on the back other then that no damage and still fully functional

and best of all i can type a text message blindfolded on the nokia ...try that on a iphone i can even go online to read a email or look in google maps


but maybe i am too old for the iphone , and maybe apple never imagined that someone would use a iphone as a mobile phone

 

[Coukos34]

Wow, 6 pages and the OP still won't back down after being proven wrong multiple times and has yet to admit his mistake of stating his opinions as fact . I give up, as the OP obviously will never just admit his wrongs. Sad really.....I'm out

 

[sneezymarble]

3. Does the iPhone 4 experience MORE signal loss than other phones when held in this manner? According to Anandtech, definitely more than the 3GS and Nexus One. But since there is no set standard on how much signal loss is acceptable and no laws regarding this, it is NOT an issue legally and therefore, Apple is not legally required to fix it (they can if they want to).

You're right that they may not be legally required to fix the phone, but they may be required to give full refunds, including covering any restocking fees, and it's even possible for some consumers to recover damages, say, if the unusual frequency of dropped calls incurs some monetary loss.

As I understand things, All of this sort of hangs on whether it can be successfully argued that the phone doesn't do is unfit for its purpose (as a phone). And, I think, that will depend on whether it can be shown that there's a reasonable expectation that one ought to be able to hold the phone in the way that causes reception loss without incurring such extreme amounts of reception loss.

That might not be too difficult a thing to show, by the way, since Steve Jobs himself showed off the phone, and used it, by holding it in the way he later said users ought not hold it. Prior to that there was no instruction on exactly how to hold the phone. Additionally, Apple's own marketing materials show the phone being used in the death grip. All of that, I think, creates a reasonable expectation that the phone can be used in that way with problem, and makes a prima facie case for full refunds, including restocking fees, and, possibly, even damages, under the Sale of Goods Act.

Maybe I'm wrong about all this. I'm perfectly content not holding my phone in the way that causes the problem. And, I do get severe reception loss when I do death grip my phone. My wife's phone does the same thing in the same places, and so does my brother in law's phone. In fact, every iPhone 4 I've interacted with has this problem. It's annoying, to be sure, but, for me, it's not a deal breaker. I do understand why people are upset, though. And I think Apple may very well get bruised by this, if not simply by market forces, perhaps by the lawsuits that are being brought against them.

Edit: This is for UK folks, by the way. I assume there's something similar in the US.

 

[Steviejobz]

Apple will quietly apply some coating on the second or third run of iPhone 4s. Thereby never really admitting fault. Those with troubled phones can exchange them in within the warranty period and their new phone may magically work as intended. Those who never exchange their phone will just continue to adapt to holding it differently or, if they live in a strong signal area, be ok.

 

[samcraig]

I'm just quoting what apple said. You're holding it wrong and there is no issue. You're problem is with apple/jobs, not with me. If you're not happy, return the phone.

First it's facts then it's just what apple said.

I think you're confusing facts with PR, Marketing and dare I say - propaganda.

If you had typed out your first post but it was a bunch of racial slurs without crediting the source - or - I don't know - USING QUOTES - guess what? You'd be the one making the slurs. No different.

So stop playing the victim. You thought you'd be a big internet tough guy and solve a faux MR "issue" by grandstanding and failed. Miserably. Now you want to backpeddle and cry foul.

As someone else said - just man up and exit the thread...

 

[drjsway]

First it's facts then it's just what apple said.

I think you're confusing facts with PR, Marketing and dare I say - propaganda.

If you had typed out your first post but it was a bunch of racial slurs without crediting the source - or - I don't know - USING QUOTES - guess what? You'd be the one making the slurs. No different.

So stop playing the victim. You thought you'd be a big internet tough guy and solve a faux MR "issue" by grandstanding and failed. Miserably. Now you want to backpeddle and cry foul.

As someone else said - just man up and exit the thread...

Regardless of what Apple said, it is a fact that they said it. Geez, take a logic class.

So Apple announced their fix and all they're going to do is take away your precious bars in the first place. This confirms that if you have a strong signal, there is no problem. Now will you all just return your phone if you're still unhappy and shut up?

 

[jambobowron]

Only Savage and Heineman can distinguish theses myths and 'FACTS' - I can see it now... Mythbusters: Apple Special...
Does the iPhone 4 have a signal issue?
Does saying 'i don't believe in Jobs' kill a fanboy somewhere in the world? (Peter pan joke - if you don't understand )
and does the iPad battery run on unicorn blood?

clown OP...