There's got to be an 1080p ATV3 coming out

[dgalvan123]

Wouldn't AirPlay at 1080 be heavily handicapped or be impossible by the lack of most wifi network bandwidth?

I don't know about Airplay mirroring. But Apple has already stated that the Airplay Mirroring in OS X Mountain Lion will be limited to 720p, so maybe the answer to your question is yes (for mirroring), and Apple has recognized this and pre-imposed a resolution limit for mirroring.

As for streaming movies to a 1080p ATV through iTunes, I'd think the 1080p wouldn't be an inherent problem, rather it's the bit-rate that is going to matter. It's possible to have a 1080p resolution video that has a lower-than-bluray bit rate.

I do know that I have a lot of 1080p home video from my Canon DSLR camera, and I can simply drag the 1080p file into iTunes and the video becomes available as a thumbnail on my ATV. HOWEVER, usually my ATV starts caching that video file (while presumably also downconverting to 720p), and it almost always crashes and reboots the ATV. In order to get my 1080p DSLR videos to play, I have to downconvert them either to 720p or simply export from quicktime at a lower bit rate on my mac, and then drag the downconverted video into itunes. (Alternately I can export the video from iMovie at the 720p level.)

This is a big hassle, and I am definitely looking forward to a 1080p ATV so that I don't have to downconvert my home movies before watching them on the TV.

 

[hafr]

Yes indeed, hence my original statement said that 1080 mirroring is likely to be handicapped by "most" available wifi routers.

Anyhow, I was just asking the question since 1080 mirroring was brought up in the original post, and I thought that it would be rather moot to have it if very few can utilize it.

Either way, one can only hope that 802.11ac becomes standard in their products ASAP.

 

[Jus711]

Yeah, 1080p over wifi isn't really possible even with an N router, at least not uncompressed. I use ps3mediaserver to compress mkv's on the fly and stream to my ps3, but you have to compress it to 2-5 Mbps to work, it can handle spikes, but not a constantly high bitrate. I think I'm going to wire my house for ethernet eventually to bypass this issue, the prices are just too low on monoprice not to.

 

[osohardy]

Yeah, 1080p over wifi isn't really possible even with an N router, at least not uncompressed. I use ps3mediaserver to compress mkv's on the fly and stream to my ps3, but you have to compress it to 2-5 Mbps to work, it can handle spikes, but not a constantly high bitrate. I think I'm going to wire my house for ethernet eventually to bypass this issue, the prices are just too low on monoprice not to.

I'm sorry but what is everyone talking about having problems streaming 1080p over wireless N? I stream bluray rips ALL THE TIME over wifi. 30-35Mbps for a bluray really is not a problem...even my ipad2 which is limited to 65Mbps will do it. A wireless N mac will do 270+ Mbps minus overhead on 5Ghz...PLENTY.

 

[class77]

I don't know about Airplay mirroring. But Apple has already stated that the Airplay Mirroring in OS X Mountain Lion will be limited to 720p, so maybe the answer to your question is yes (for mirroring), and Apple has recognized this and pre-imposed a resolution limit for mirroring.

I know this might be a case of semantics, but I don't think they said they limited the mirroring to 720p, I think they said they were passing it thru your 720p ATV2. That's where the limiting is introduced into the scenario.

Look Roku has been able stream almost a year ago from their boxes at 1080p without a problem. The rest of the Apple products can take/play without problem. Why would Apple go to those lengths on a phone and have the artificial barrier of a ATV hold up everything. Those are just my thoughts, I'm sure that they don't coincide with everybody.

 

[gkarris]

My take:

A5 based AppleTV with 1080p capabilities (no apps) for the $99.

A6 based iTV for a pretty penny with Siri, Apps, etc....

 

[CocoaPuffs]

I know this might be a case of semantics, but I don't think they said they limited the mirroring to 720p, I think they said they were passing it thru your 720p ATV2. That's where the limiting is introduced into the scenario.

Look Roku has been able stream almost a year ago from their boxes at 1080p without a problem. The rest of the Apple products can take/play without problem. Why would Apple go to those lengths on a phone and have the artificial barrier of a ATV hold up everything. Those are just my thoughts, I'm sure that they don't coincide with everybody.

Last attempt, because honestly I am not even sure why I am continuing a moot point.

Look, "streaming" 1080p is not the same as "mirroring" 1080p. You know that little bit of delay when you try to start a movie? That's the content being cached so that the "streaming" can be played uninterrupted.

With "mirroring", you cannot cache anything because it suppose to be in real time, meaning you won't know what comes next. So if you have a rather crappy wifi network because of router or what not, you won't be able to transfer data at high enough bandwidth without significant lag, worse when it is 1080 rather than 720 or lower.

 

[Revelation78]

Last attempt, because honestly I am not even sure why I am continuing a moot point.

Look, "streaming" 1080p is not the same as "mirroring" 1080p. You know that little bit of delay when you try to start a movie? That's the content being cached so that the "streaming" can be played uninterrupted.

With "mirroring", you cannot cache anything because it suppose to be in real time, meaning you won't know what comes next. So if you have a rather crappy wifi network because of router or what not, you won't be able to transfer data at high enough bandwidth without significant lag, worse when it is 1080 rather than 720 or lower.

And that is where Apple will also push their new AEBS models that will be simultaineously released...

Even my, somewhat, old AEBS can handle 1080 content without any issue and I don't see mirroring a problem either. If you have issues, then you will have to downconvert your content or upgrade your network hardware.

 

[fattire357]

I can stream 1080p movies just fine between my iMac and Macbook Pro as long as I am on the 5gHz band. Every so often my mac auto-switches to 2.4 gHz (not sure why...) and then I definately notice staggering....


I think all you guys that are complaining about streaming 1080p have to remember that 802.11n still won't cut it if you don't go up to 5Ghz

 

[nuckinfutz]

Be prepared to upgrade you networks to 802.11ac next year.

11n has gone about as far as it's going to go.

 

[alflavor]

We'll see an ATV3 with A5 chip and apps in the Spring I reckon.

The rumoured iTV will follow. Won't be getting one of those though having just bought a Sony Bravia LCD !

My thoughts anyway.

 

[Jus711]

I'm sorry but what is everyone talking about having problems streaming 1080p over wireless N? I stream bluray rips ALL THE TIME over wifi. 30-35Mbps for a bluray really is not a problem...even my ipad2 which is limited to 65Mbps will do it. A wireless N mac will do 270+ Mbps minus overhead on 5Ghz...PLENTY.

Hmm, that's interesting, maybe the transcoding being done on my MBP is the bottleneck, but it's a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo with discrete graphics so you'd think it could handle the job. I use the 5 GHz band on my Airport Extreme, the PS3 is only G, but it's hooked up by ethernet to an Airport Express so that shouldn't be it either.

Anyway, as to the OP it looks like a ATV refresh is imminent. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-5...re-shelves-refresh-coming-soon/?tag=cnetRiver

 

[whoathere]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Good thing I find this out. Was just thinking about getting ATV

 

[whiteyanderson]

I think the whole 1080p thing is blown WAAAAAY out of proportion really. I consider myself a true audio/video glutton, and have spent the money (much to my wife's disgust) to invest in a very nice home audio/video set up that is all calibrated to standard.

But to the average Joe, they wouldn't know the difference in 720 vs 1080 if it hit them over the head. The average person assumes that a 1080p source via DirecTV, or worse Netflix, is the greatest thing ever. They have no clue that the sources are compressed and that a 720p from an uncompressed source looks as good or at times, better than what they THINK is a true 1080p source.

I'd much rather have HD audio codecs.

I suppose the 1080p tagline will help to sell plenty of ATV3's though. I'll buy one. But not because I think it'll be a massive upgrade in video quality. I just want to move the ATV2 to the bedroom, so I'll wait and see what the ATV 3 brings to the plate in it's other features.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

But to the average Joe, they wouldn't know the difference in 720 vs 1080 if it hit them over the head. The average person assumes that a 1080p source via DirecTV, or worse Netflix, is the greatest thing ever. They have no clue that the sources are compressed and that a 720p from an uncompressed source looks as good or at times, better than what they THINK is a true 1080p source.

What source is giving you 720p UNcompressed?

This implied scenario is posted over and over in threads like this, usually as "I'd rather have a less compressed 720p instead of an overly compressed 1080p video." Well duh. Less compressed 480p looks better than overly compressed 720p too but no one makes that argument.

Your variation is more interesting... implying overly compressed 1080p vs. UNcompressed 720p. Best I know, no one broadcasts uncompressed 720p via any medium.

Relative to this rumor though, if Apple rolls out a 1080p TV- and I'm definitely in the camp hoping they do- I doubt they'll spec out 1080p compression such that it offers no visible advantage over 720p. More simply, I doubt Apple will overly compress 1080p such that no one can see a reason to choose a 1080p version of a movie vs. a 720p version. Why? At one point, SD (480p) was the iTunes "standard." Then, Apple added 720p. Did they overly compress that 720p so that no one could see a benefit over the SD standard? Of course not.

Even setting that aside... we need look no further than the compression choices made for the iPhone 4s 1080p video. THAT is Apple demonstrating their choices for quality vs. compression. In all the iPhone 4s threads, I see very few complaining about the quality of the videos they are shooting with their iPhones. In fact, it's just the opposite: people gushing about how great those videos look.

You happy with 720p? No problem. A next-gen (1080p) TV will still play your 720p to it's maximum quality. Better hardware can always max out lighter software. For those "720p is good enough" people, there is no loss in Apple rolling out a 1080p TV; your 720p videos will look just as good and iTunes will likely still offer the 720p version just as it still offers the SD version years after Apple went to 720p.

 

[Che Castro]

The fact that ATV2 is sold out everywhere is all you need to know

 

[Che Castro]

My take:

A5 based AppleTV with 1080p capabilities (no apps) for the $99.

A6 based iTV for a pretty penny with Siri, Apps, etc....

An A6 chip in an iTV

So when the A7 chip comes out the next year we suppose to buy another tv ?

 

[Che Castro]

What source is giving you 720p UNcompressed?

This implied scenario is posted over and over in threads like this, usually as "I'd rather have a less compressed 720p instead of an overly compressed 1080p video." Well duh. Less compressed 480p looks better than overly compressed 720p too but no one makes that argument.

Your variation is more interesting... implying overly compressed 1080p vs. UNcompressed 720p. Best I know, no one broadcasts uncompressed 720p via any medium.

Relative to this rumor though, if Apple rolls out a 1080p TV- and I'm definitely in the camp hoping they do- I doubt they'll spec out 1080p compression such that it offers no visible advantage over 720p. More simply, I doubt Apple will overly compress 1080p such that no one can see a reason to choose a 1080p version of a movie vs. a 720p version. Why? At one point, SD (480p) was the iTunes "standard." Then, Apple added 720p. Did they overly compress that 720p so that no one could see a benefit over the SD standard? Of course not.

Even setting that aside... we need look no further than the compression choices made for the iPhone 4s 1080p video. THAT is Apple demonstrating their choices for quality vs. compression. In all the iPhone 4s threads, I see very few complaining about the quality of the videos they are shooting with their iPhones. In fact, it's just the opposite: people gushing about how great those videos look.

You happy with 720p? No problem. A next-gen (1080p) TV will still play your 720p to it's maximum quality. Better hardware can always max out lighter software. For those "720p is good enough" people, there is no loss in Apple rolling out a 1080p TV; your 720p videos will look just as good and iTunes will likely still offer the 720p version just as it still offers the SD version years after Apple went to 720p.

I hate those "720p is good enough" people

Always holding us back

 

[Jus711]

I think the whole 1080p thing is blown WAAAAAY out of proportion really. I consider myself a true audio/video glutton, and have spent the money (much to my wife's disgust) to invest in a very nice home audio/video set up that is all calibrated to standard.
.

It depends on your tv, it's size, and how far away you sit from it, and of course the quality of your source material. It can make a difference, depending on those variables. I agree that resolution is about the 5th most important element of picture quality, but it does matter. And, with blu-rays and movies being shot in 1080p, it would be nice if the ATV had that option.

 

[Irishman]

What source is giving you 720p UNcompressed?

This implied scenario is posted over and over in threads like this, usually as "I'd rather have a less compressed 720p instead of an overly compressed 1080p video." Well duh. Less compressed 480p looks better than overly compressed 720p too but no one makes that argument.

Your variation is more interesting... implying overly compressed 1080p vs. UNcompressed 720p. Best I know, no one broadcasts uncompressed 720p via any medium.

Relative to this rumor though, if Apple rolls out a 1080p TV- and I'm definitely in the camp hoping they do- I doubt they'll spec out 1080p compression such that it offers no visible advantage over 720p. More simply, I doubt Apple will overly compress 1080p such that no one can see a reason to choose a 1080p version of a movie vs. a 720p version. Why? At one point, SD (480p) was the iTunes "standard." Then, Apple added 720p. Did they overly compress that 720p so that no one could see a benefit over the SD standard? Of course not.

Even setting that aside... we need look no further than the compression choices made for the iPhone 4s 1080p video. THAT is Apple demonstrating their choices for quality vs. compression. In all the iPhone 4s threads, I see very few complaining about the quality of the videos they are shooting with their iPhones. In fact, it's just the opposite: people gushing about how great those videos look.

You happy with 720p? No problem. A next-gen (1080p) TV will still play your 720p to it's maximum quality. Better hardware can always max out lighter software. For those "720p is good enough" people, there is no loss in Apple rolling out a 1080p TV; your 720p videos will look just as good and iTunes will likely still offer the 720p version just as it still offers the SD version years after Apple went to 720p.

I know the answer to your uncompressed 720p question - it comes from OTA broadcasts. Looks FAR better than the same material via Fios, Direct, etc.

 

[dynaflash]

I know the answer to your uncompressed 720p question - it comes from OTA broadcasts. Looks FAR better than the same material via Fios, Direct, etc.

Oh thats still quite compressed from its source. Not that is matters but yes, its compressed.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I know the answer to your uncompressed 720p question - it comes from OTA broadcasts. Looks FAR better than the same material via Fios, Direct, etc.

OTA is not UNcompressed. It it also compressed. Maybe not as much as when it is pushed through cable/satt... but it's definitely not UNcompressed.

I replied because his post makes the old, tired implication that less compressed (his was "uncompressed") 720p will look better than overly compressed 1080p which is almost certainly true. But as is always the case with that implication, it should not be assumed that the only choice is less compressed 720p vs. overly compressed 1080p. Perhaps Apple will choose to compress the 1080p even less than they compress the 720p?

In fact, we already have an example on which to draw such conclusions in iPhone 4s 1080p. THAT is Apple demonstrating a choice of compression for 1080p video. Is that video "overly compressed" such that it doesn't look good vs. Apple 720p? I see very few people finding fault with Apple compression of those 1080p videos. In fact, I see just the opposite: gushing love for 1080p video quality shot on the iPhone 4s.

If we assume a new TV is going to have the hardware guts to play back that iPhone 4s 1080p at it's fullest quality- and that seems like a pretty fair assumption- it would mean that ANY 1080p video (such as potential 1080p movie rentals added to the iTunes store or blu ray rips) should at least be able to look that good (or bad).

Does iPhone 4s 1080p look "overly compressed" vs. Apple 720p? If not, then we should quit with the "overly compressed" implication. If Apple is going to roll out 1080p video and hardware playback, they're NOT going to want bad press that Apple 1080p is "overly compressed" yechhhh. Instead, they're going to want (at least) their friends in the press to write that they can't see the difference (or much difference) between blu ray and Apple 1080p. Yes, it seems very likely that there will be a difference but this is not a discussion of blu ray vs. Apple 1080p quality. It is an attempt to shoot down the concept that Apple 1080p will automatically be "overly compressed" compared to Apple 720p. That argument is often slung in support of 720p even though the 720pers will lose nothing if Apple rolls out better hardware (their 720p will play to its maximum quality through a 1080p-capable TV3).

 

[Irishman]

Oh thats still quite compressed from its source. Not that is matters but yes, its compressed.

Not to pick, but I'm gonna pick.

How do you know that? What's your source? I try to stay on top of HD and such and never seen that stated by someone who would be in a position to know.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Not to pick, but I'm gonna pick.

How do you know that? What's your source? I try to stay on top of HD and such and never seen that stated by someone who would be in a position to know.

OTA is compressed (MPEG-2) to fit into the channel bandwidth allocated for each station. If it was uncompressed, a 720p video signal could not fit within the channel's bandwidth.

For references to OTA compression see "Decompression" at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner. There are many technical sources available via simple searches. For example: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html includes a key bit of info: "employs MPEG-2, a data compression standard. MPEG-2 typically achieves a 50-to-1 reduction in data." And here's a relevant article that talks about the MAX bandwidth for a single OTA channel: http://www.pcworld.com/article/144800/is_hdtv_compression_damaging_picture_quality.html That latter also talks about how some OTA broadcasters crank up the compression to fit in subchannels.

Lastly, here's some calculations for uncompressed 720p (and others): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncompressed_video. Your local broadcasters are NOT broadcasting 370GB-494GB or more per hour.

 

[maturola]

Not to pick, but I'm gonna pick.

How do you know that? What's your source? I try to stay on top of HD and such and never seen that stated by someone who would be in a position to know.

Of course it is compressed, broadcasting uncompressed HD would required crazy amount of bandwidth OTA. Check the ATSC specs and you will see.