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These M3 Macs Are Still Coming, But Are They Worth the Wait?
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Because the M3 Ultra will stop doing everything it did when you bought it? Or because you won't feel special about having the fastest CPU anymore? Also, while you say at a fraction of the price, it's a fairly hefty fraction. That M3 Max MBP is almost $5k....
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
The key to the emulation is to come back in about a week and post a variant like: "now I don't think colors but still think ports."
A week later: "Now I don't think ports but it looks like colors are on again"
A week later: "Now I don't think ports or colors, but it could still happen"
A week later: "Not in 2024 but probably 2025"
And so on. Once you've covered ALL possibilities, one will prove true and then you can refer back to that as you calling it exactly as it played out. Ignore all of the other variants as if you never shared them.
Weatherman: Sunny with a chance of rain. Rainy with a chance of sun in some spots. Partly Cloudy = Partly Sunny.
Roll the dice: I'm certain the next roll will land on a 3... or a 1... or a 6... or a 2... or a 4... or a 5. Roll: It's a 4. I called it exactly right!!!
One can always be right if they offer all guesses.
However, the real differentiator is getting PAID to offer your variation of all guesses. Get someone to give you some money for your guesses and you've reached true Apple prognosticator status... professional status over amateur.
I am very, very happy with my M1 machines. I have a 32GB Pro for personal use, and my work machine is a 64GB Max. I am yet to approach their limits - bearing in mind my work Mac usually has a Docker container and six Node apps of varying complexity running full time alongside Chrome, Slack, VS Code, GitHub Desktop, TextEdit, TIDAL and a handful of other apps, plus my company's overbearing security junk... never hear a fan, barely warm to the touch. It's a beast, Apple knocked it out of the park the first time around. I don't see myself needing to upgrade for several years at this rate.
The base 14" M3 Macbook Pro replaces the prior 13" Macbook Pro with Touch Bar. Last year the 14" Macbook Pro had a base price of $1,999 and came with 16/512; this year $1,999 is 18/512 so a minor bump in the memory and steady with the SSD. There was no 14" last year with 8/256.
I was always confused why they kept the 13" Touchbar Macbook Pro around but it sounds like it sold well (maybe large corporate/org bulk buys for "fleet" machines). Apple decided to merge that use case in to the 14" non-touchbar chassis this year and I feel like it is adding some confusion for folks. That $1,699 machine should be compared against last year's 13" touchbar Macbook Pro.
To ensure the M3 Max truly shines, they had to gimp the M3 Pro then?
Perhaps the Pro was too good vs the Max in previous versions, Apple found a way to upsell the Max even more.
Apple knows that M2 Mac sales will fall off a cliff. I don’t know about the Mac Studio and Mac Pro, but as soon as TSMC increases M3 capacity, we’ll see press release updates for the MacBook Air and Mac mini, possibly as soon as January 2024. I get the impression that Apple would like to update all Macs simultaneously every October or perhaps every 1 ½ to 2 years similar to the annual iPhone updates. I don’t think Apple will wait on the M3 updates.
The M3 Pro is a sidegrade from the M2 Pro in multicore benchmarks and the memory bandwidth was cut by 25%. However, I still think it's an upgrade where it matters. The single-core performance is significantly better and that is the main bottleneck in real-world workflows, the GPU architecture is better despite lower core count, a shift from 16GB/32GB RAM configs to 18GB/36GB is a small move in the right direction, plus it's going to use less power and generate less heat due to the 3 nm process.
The M3 Pro is just such a small upgrade from M3 now that it's hard to argue that M3 Pro with base 18GB RAM is worth choosing over the M3 upgraded to 24GB at a similar price.
The M3 Pro is just such a small upgrade from M3 now that it's hard to argue that M3 Pro with base 18GB RAM is worth choosing over the M3 upgraded to 24GB at a similar price.
The more interesting question is if they are worth the money. Survey says: probably not. Hey I could be a a writer here. My guess is as good as theirs.
If the top line M3 Max SoC proves to be as fast as Apple is saying once these computers are out in the wild, it makes the M2 Ultra Mac Pro a complete non-starter for everyone unless you’re a Pro who absolutely has to have something now for PCIe cards. Otherwise, save the $3000, buy a Mac Studio M2 Ultra or wait unless there is an actual business necessity.
Apple’s strategy right now is a little fragmented at this point, not that expecting them to have an M3 Ultra ready is a reasonable expectation, which it isn’t.
The proof will be in the pudding once the M3 Pro and M3 Max are actually released. Users really need to exercise some patience at this point. There’s so much Monday morning quarterbacking out of people who have zero clue, much less even need Pro, Max or Ultra.
If you watched the event you saw there were three target markets: Intel owners, M1 owners, gamers. These are Apple's target, they're not looking for M2 to M3 upgrades as a goal.
"Apple could be already testing an M3 Mac mini, according to Gurman. In August, signs of an unknown "15,12" Mac machine were found in developer code, with the Mac featuring an 8-core CPU (consisting of four efficiency cores and four performance cores), 10-core GPU, and 24GB RAM. Based on the similar specifications to the base M2 Mac mini (bar the existing model's 8GB RAM as standard), Gurman believes it represents a next-generation Mac mini."
For the kind of work you need Ultra chips for, it doesn’t matter if there’s a new chip one month after you buy it let alone three. If you need the hardware you buy it when you need it and get busy with it.
Too little too soon to update from M1 too. Unless one is a 3d artist, but those probably never left Intel+Nvidia yet.
It’s a huge stretch for an M1 owner to be in a position of “must have m3 performance as my M1 computer is now slow”.
Remember, there are a lot of users on these forums who simply want bragging rights and really don’t need anything more than an M2 MacBook Air.
I love when Apple releases new machines
It means a previous gen machine I can actually justify paying for might be available soon on a big sale at Woot.com!
It means a previous gen machine I can actually justify paying for might be available soon on a big sale at Woot.com!
If Apple's business model relies on everybody replacing their ~$2000+ computers every 12-18 months then they have a problem - but I doubt that is the plan unless they've got really confused about the difference between a Mac and an iPhone, or unless they are still living in the 1980s/90s when speeds/capacities really did double every 18 months.
If the launch seemed to be focussing on improvements since M1 and Intel Macs, while glossing over the M2 that's probably because that's where most "upgraders" will be coming from.
Then there's also the people that they are hoping to attract to Mac for the first time, or who are buying second machines, or who are replacing failed/stolen/lost Macs - who Apple want to keep on board. It's not a good look if the "new" models on offer all have 12-18 month-old specs.
It is, however, disappointing that, despite the regular/pro and max chips all launching together, they couldn't update the Mini, Studio and MBA at the same time - maybe they're worried about chip yields. I guess the Studio and Pro will have to wait for the Ultra variant - if there's going to be an ultra equivalent given that the Max has been levelled up so much.
In December 2019, I bought the just announced fully optioned 2019 16" Intel I9 configured laptop with 64GB 1666Mhz DDR4 Ram, 8TB SSD and Radeon Pro 5500 w/8GB of GDDR6 memory graphic card. Cost with military discount and the 6% cash discount of the time with sales tax was $6,238 and my wife had the same model but with a 4TB SSD at $5,082. The heat and associated fan noise was impressive when doing even basic programs but such was operation of Intel processors.
A few months later in 2020, Apple announced the first M1 processor as a 13" MacBook Air that could be configured to have 16GB of ram and a 2TB SSD. I was able to get one at the local Apple Store with 16GB of ram and a 1TB SSD. It had no fans and had impressive performance. I was disappointed with all the Apple hype of the 16" Intel just a few months before. I realized that the over $11,000 purchase had probably depreciated 75% in two months because the M1 line would expand and offer better performance with little or no heat issues.
I acquired a 14" M1 Max with 64GB of ram and a 4TB SSD when they first came out in 2021. I was so impressed with the laptop computer that I acquired the M1 Mac Studio Ultra with 128GB of ram and 8TB SSD when it came out. That retired my 2012 MacPro trash can that had the 6 core Intel CPU option and 128GB of Ram and a 2TB SSD (quite the computer back then and was totally quiet). Since memory and SSD are soldered in now, I ordered the max memory and the large or largest SSD to try and future proof the devices since they are not upgradeable.
I then saw an article about the single core speeds of the four M1 variations and they were nearly the same. That made the fact that the 14" laptop and Mac Studio would boot up in about the same amount of time and worked on certain programs taking nearly the same time.
When the M2 series came out, over time I saw the single core speeds were nearly the same for the four M2 models but the average was about 15% or so higher than the average M1 single core. Now the M3 series is starting and we see the single core speeds across three of the four possible variations are nearly the same but the average is about 15% or so higher.
It may be the M4 or higher before the gains in single core speeds actually show up in significantly more productivity on less computer processor intensive work flows. So the latest and greatest may not be that great for simpler work.
The purchase decision process has become more complex than in the Intel days. Apple does not disclose the single core speeds in their presentations as that information would possibly discourage impulse upgrades on announcement day.
A few months later in 2020, Apple announced the first M1 processor as a 13" MacBook Air that could be configured to have 16GB of ram and a 2TB SSD. I was able to get one at the local Apple Store with 16GB of ram and a 1TB SSD. It had no fans and had impressive performance. I was disappointed with all the Apple hype of the 16" Intel just a few months before. I realized that the over $11,000 purchase had probably depreciated 75% in two months because the M1 line would expand and offer better performance with little or no heat issues.
I acquired a 14" M1 Max with 64GB of ram and a 4TB SSD when they first came out in 2021. I was so impressed with the laptop computer that I acquired the M1 Mac Studio Ultra with 128GB of ram and 8TB SSD when it came out. That retired my 2012 MacPro trash can that had the 6 core Intel CPU option and 128GB of Ram and a 2TB SSD (quite the computer back then and was totally quiet). Since memory and SSD are soldered in now, I ordered the max memory and the large or largest SSD to try and future proof the devices since they are not upgradeable.
I then saw an article about the single core speeds of the four M1 variations and they were nearly the same. That made the fact that the 14" laptop and Mac Studio would boot up in about the same amount of time and worked on certain programs taking nearly the same time.
When the M2 series came out, over time I saw the single core speeds were nearly the same for the four M2 models but the average was about 15% or so higher than the average M1 single core. Now the M3 series is starting and we see the single core speeds across three of the four possible variations are nearly the same but the average is about 15% or so higher.
It may be the M4 or higher before the gains in single core speeds actually show up in significantly more productivity on less computer processor intensive work flows. So the latest and greatest may not be that great for simpler work.
The purchase decision process has become more complex than in the Intel days. Apple does not disclose the single core speeds in their presentations as that information would possibly discourage impulse upgrades on announcement day.
They boot up in similar time not because multicore performance doesn't matter, but because M CPU is not a bottleneck on startup. You are too focused on singlecore performance.