Thinking about making another leap...

[Krafty]

Ok, this is going to be a brief summary because Firefox watched closely as I finished typing a half novel to makes its move to piss on itself and crash.

Pretty much, I'm looking to make one last leap in the expensive world of DSLR's. I've been on the D80 for a few months, and its been up and down with different lenses. I think the problem comes from trying to use my images at 100%, in which I understand you can't always do (reading the threads in the section for the past 2 hours or so), so I figured to up my dreams and ideas in photography to buy a camera better suited with noise-reduction and more MP's so I can downsize it, hopefully to get the better results.

If you want me to further explain myself just say so, I know the internet has narrowed to to tl:dr's and I dont blame you.

Maybe I am a small kid with a small brain and dreams too big to fit my smile, but I think my dream to one day pony ride with J. Hendrix under the sea puts that conclusion to rest.

So as of now, I'm leaning towards a D300, but am also considering the D90.

 

[luminosity]

Used D300s in great condition are going for as much or less than D90s right now. I should know, as I just sold one on eBay for just a shade over 1K.

I'd go with a D300 at around that price, if you can find it.

 

[Krafty]

I looked at CL and didn't see any, let alone D90's going for too much better. Amazon is still cranking their prices at $1,300+

 

[luminosity]

I looked at CL and didn't see any, let alone D90's going for too much better. Amazon is still cranking their prices at $1,300+

I'd never use craigslist, but that's just me. When you've got reliable photography communities to turn to, there's no need. I just sold my 17-55 2.8 at fredmiranda.com, which has its own feedback system. This forum has its own marketplace forum as well, though it has a different focus.

Check out FM: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10

 

[Krafty]

Alright.

 

[compuwar]

I think the problem comes from trying to use my images at 100%, in which I understand you can't always do

If you can't get good images at 100% from a D80, going to a higher megapixel body is not likely to produce better images at 100%. The D300 sensor requires lenses to resolve at around 90lp/mm, and photographers to be steadier or bring more light.

I'd suggest you rent one first if you don't believe me.

 

[leighonigar]

Use them at 100%? Onscreen? So you're cropping? As has been said more or less you'd probably be better off with a rock-solid tripod and an excellent lens, with the camera at a low ISO, but then I have no idea what you are trying to shoot, or why you want to use the images 'at 100%'. I realise you lost your original post, but it is confusing.

 

[flosseR]

I would have to agree about the lenses...
What lens are you shooting with? Try a small fast prime, make a steady shot and then blow it up to 100%. Also try cranking ISO down and aperture up

The Nikon AF-D 50mmm which you can use since you have a focus motor, is arguable one of Nikons best lenses overall..EVER in terms of sharpness and it costs less than 100 USD. I have used pictures taken with it at 100% more often than not print or on screen.
Here is a shots taken with a D90 and that 50mm at f2.2 and ISO 200. This was taken outside at a big overcast and dark clouds... only adjusted black and white after.. but you can easily use this image at 100% (click for larger version).



I still fail to see what you actually mean by can't use at 100%. The D80 is a great camera and I am sorry to say, most likely not your problem. Lens might be the first way to go.
Nikons Pro lenses have amazing sharpness and I don't really think your body (camera) is holding you back.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Used D300s in great condition are going for as much or less than D90s right now. I should know, as I just sold one on eBay for just a shade over 1K.

I'd go with a D300 at around that price, if you can find it.

Sorry to hijack but what? You sold your D300?

 

[luminosity]

Sorry to hijack but what? You sold your D300?

I did. Looking to move to the D700 (B&H's price for it almost precisely matches my combined take from the D300, 17-55 and 80-200).

 

[OreoCookie]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by `using images at 100 %,' but I assume you mean looking at them at 100 % magnification. Therein lies the problem. Have a look here:

This shot was made with an F80 on bw film (can you guess the ISO value?) and it was scanned by professionals with a very good scanner. It now hangs in my parents' living room (~80 cm wide). Since it is printed rather large, you can see pixels, even though the original scan gave me 16 megapixels.

If you look at this thread, then no matter how good the high ISO performance (or other measures of image quality) is, people will still think it's bad and complain about it.

Instead of changing body, you can also work at lower ISO if you invest money in lenses. What lenses do you have right now?

You'll gain a lot, lot more if you invest the money in new lenses that give you more creative freedom. As it happens, I have a D80 and I have to say that it's a very, very capable camera if you know what you're doing. Perhaps newer bodies have 10-20 % less noise, 2 MP more, etc. etc. etc. But it's not nearly going to make the difference you're imagining it will. I'm eagerly awaiting my fourth lens in the mail

 

[Krafty]

Right now I'm using a 18-55 NIKKOR lens, just the stock ones that came with my D40. My friend showed me another site where I was going to get:
http://www.closeoutisland.com/products.asp?product_id=11273
http://www.closeoutisland.com/products.asp?product_id=11336

Or perhaps:
http://www.slrisland.com/products.asp?product_id=12004

 

[Krafty]

I would have to agree about the lenses...
What lens are you shooting with? Try a small fast prime, make a steady shot and then blow it up to 100%. Also try cranking ISO down and aperture up

The Nikon AF-D 50mmm which you can use since you have a focus motor, is arguable one of Nikons best lenses overall..EVER in terms of sharpness and it costs less than 100 USD. I have used pictures taken with it at 100% more often than not print or on screen.
Here is a shots taken with a D90 and that 50mm at f2.2 and ISO 200. This was taken outside at a big overcast and dark clouds... only adjusted black and white after.. but you can easily use this image at 100% (click for larger version).



I still fail to see what you actually mean by can't use at 100%. The D80 is a great camera and I am sorry to say, most likely not your problem. Lens might be the first way to go.
Nikons Pro lenses have amazing sharpness and I don't really think your body (camera) is holding you back.

That is the type of photos I want to take, along with landscape. I didn't plan to get a D300 for the MPs, just for the MPs so I can scale it or crop is down to reduce noise (if any).

Perhaps I do need to shoot more, I've tried fixed lenses and I can't master it to save a dying dog.

 

[88888888]

Right now I'm using a 18-55 NIKKOR lens, just the stock ones that came with my D40. My friend showed me another site where I was going to get:
http://www.closeoutisland.com/products.asp?product_id=11273
http://www.closeoutisland.com/products.asp?product_id=11336

Or perhaps:
http://www.slrisland.com/products.asp?product_id=12004

Is that a legit site?

 

[Krafty]

Is that a legit site?

She got it through her friend who received her 50D through that site. Plus it doesn't look sketchy like many other sites.

 

[Clix Pix]

Learn how to use the camera body and lens(es) you've got first....and THEN think about moving on. If someone knows what they're doing they can get wonderful results from a basic DSLR and kit lens or even a P&S or even an iPhone (or other cell phone) camera. It's not the gear that is at issue here, it's just that you need to spend more time learning, practicing and refining your photographic technique.

 

[Krafty]

Learn how to use the camera body and lens(es) you've got first....and THEN think about moving on. If someone knows what they're doing they can get wonderful results from a basic DSLR and kit lens or even a P&S or even an iPhone (or other cell phone) camera. It's not the gear that is at issue here, it's just that you need to spend more time learning, practicing and refining your photographic technique.

I see. But at those prices, is it really worth passing that down? Regardless, I dont think I'll find it that cheap in the future.

 

[luminosity]

An iPhone? Someone who knows what they're doing is still not going to get good results from an iPhone or any cell phone more often than not. The tools just aren't there.

 

[ChrisA]

So as of now, I'm leaning towards a D300, but am also considering the D90.

I don't think you will see a dramatic improvement. The You have the square the number of pixels to double the resolution. So id 10MP is not enough you will need 100MP to make a large difference. Going from 10 to 20 is not much

Yes thelarger sensoe will work better and you will likely be able to see the difference but others who are not into photography will not. The difference is not enough.

If you want a quantum leap type difference you will have to give up 35mm derived formats and go over to medium format (or larger)

The D80 can make prints about 14 inches wide the Nikon FF bodies might go as far as 20" wide. If you want more you need a bigger camera

 

[ChrisA]

An iPhone? Someone who knows what they're doing is still not going to get good results from an iPhone or any cell phone more often than not. The tools just aren't there.

There are a lot of photographers using Holgas. You can do really interesting work with a Holga. THey are not good for shooting wildlife but there are lots of subject well suited to the little toy camera.

Many times I'll purposely leave all the lenses at home and take just one. It always turns out that I get as many good images not matter what lens I have. It just shoot subjects that "work" with that lens. If I took three lenses with me I'd get the same number of good shots, just different ones. Same should go for camera body too. D80, D300 or Holga should all produce good work, just different work.

 

[ChrisA]

I still fail to see what you actually mean by can't use at 100%.

He means that he looks at the image with one camera pixel mapped to one screen pixel. Basically he is making a 2 foot wide print then saying the quality is not good. As my daughter would say: "well duh". I's to late to do the math be just accept it that a FF nikon will look WORSE at 100%. At a fixed 100% ratio the effective magnification is proportional to the square root of the number of pixelsin the frame. The more pixels on the sensor the worse the image will look at 100%

 

[Krafty]

I don't think you will see a dramatic improvement. The You have the square the number of pixels to double the resolution. So id 10MP is not enough you will need 100MP to make a large difference. Going from 10 to 20 is not much

Yes thelarger sensoe will work better and you will likely be able to see the difference but others who are not into photography will not. The difference is not enough.

If you want a quantum leap type difference you will have to give up 35mm derived formats and go over to medium format (or larger)

The D80 can make prints about 14 inches wide the Nikon FF bodies might go as far as 20" wide. If you want more you need a bigger camera

I'm happy with the area I'm at now, as I said I'm not looking at just a MP jump.

He means that he looks at the image with one camera pixel mapped to one screen pixel. Basically he is making a 2 foot wide print then saying the quality is not good. As my daughter would say: "well duh". I's to late to do the math be just accept it that a FF nikon will look WORSE at 100%. At a fixed 100% ratio the effective magnification is proportional to the square root of the number of pixelsin the frame. The more pixels on the sensor the worse the image will look at 100%

No.

 

[Krafty]

For portrait shooting, how would this do?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005LEN4/ref=cm_rdp_product

I'm also going to see if I can look into gig shooting, I've done one before.

 

[luminosity]

There are a lot of photographers using Holgas. You can do really interesting work with a Holga. THey are not good for shooting wildlife but there are lots of subject well suited to the little toy camera.


This is certainly true. And the effects you get from some of the Holgas are part of the package.

But, remember, the Holga is also a medium format camera. That's 120 film, and that makes for a lot of detail.

 

[leighonigar]

Buy the lens, fine. the 50mm is worth having, or the 35mm f/2 or the new f/1.8. You might also enjoy the 85mm f/1.8. A new camera wont help. Yes that site is dodgy http://thoughts-of-dave.blogspot.com/2009/06/warning-closeout-island-is-rip-off-bait.html the price is insane on the D300, clearly it's illegitimate.