This fanboi is starting to migrate away from Apple

[JPamplin]

Ever since I started using the Mac Plus in 1986, I've been a diehard "fanboi" of Apple products. They have defined their products as cutting-edge and consumer-friendly. Having now used them for 30 years, I'm starting to see some chinks in the armor.

The core market that brought them to this point has been the Mac market - but that's not how they've made most of their money for about a decade. That is definitely phones. So it's understandable that they are not focusing on Macs as much as they used to, but EVEN PHONES have seen a reduction in innovation.

iPhone was a quantum leap in smartphones in 2007 - now many of the features in the iPhone 7 just play catch-up. MacBook Pros were the sexiest laptop a decade ago - now the latest model is broadly panned. The new wireless mouse has the charging port ON THE BOTTOM. MacOS Sierra is glitchy and I'm leaving many of my friend's Macs on El Cap. They're not even making their great AirPort wifi access points anymore. The differences in ease-of-use and "just works" that led a new user to an ecosystem of products is rapidly turning into "just buy our phone."

I wish I didn't have to type this, since I own 10 Apple products (iPhones, iPad Air, Macs, MacBook Air, Airport Extremes and Expresses, etc.) I hate the fact that I just bought an ASUS 802.11ac router and repeater. I hate the fact that I have posted numerous pans of the 2016 MacBook Pro online. I hate the fact that I am migrating to Alexa for home automation. I hate this. But it's happening.

 

[maflynn]

I hate the fact that I just bought an ASUS 802.11ac

Why its a superior product, plus combine that facet with the Apple killing off the AEB, its a no brainer to get the ASUS

I hate the fact that I am migrating to Alexa for home automation

Well, apple doesn't have a home automation strategy or product, so its not like you have a choice.

I go by the mantra that you buy the best tool for the job. For me, the MBP with its price, and feature set, meant that its not a good fit for me, so now I'm rocking with a Surface Book, which is a fantastic computer. I don't hate it, because its a great tool.

If you're buying things that you hate, then you need to re-evaluate your priorities and get things that you don't hate.

 

[JPamplin]

If you're buying things that you hate, then you need to re-evaluate your priorities and get things that you don't hate.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I don't hate my choices of other vendors - I hate the fact that Apple has dropped the ball in several areas to the point that other vendors' products are superior and cheaper. If their phone market drops out because of some future competitor or technology, then they have put too many eggs in one basket and that's BAD.

Of course, they have so much money held back, they could exist for some time. So did Kodak.

 

[Zazoh]

In 2007 Apple Changed From Apple Computers, Inc to Apple Inc.

A change to more closely align with what they sell, Consumer Electronics ... they used to sell "tools for the mind that advance humankind."

 

[maflynn]

I hate the fact that Apple has dropped the ball in several areas

Oh I see, I misunderstood your post, my apologies.

I agree with you, that that they seem be resting on their laurels.

 

[sunapple]

Actually, while it would be nice if Apple made everything (toasters? refrigerators?) I also like the idea of Apple getting their focus back by killing of the side projects.

And I really like my 15" 2016 MBP. I'm aware of problems others are having, but I don't have them at all.

 

[phrehdd]

Actually, while it would be nice if Apple made everything (toasters? refrigerators?) I also like the idea of Apple getting their focus back by killing of the side projects.

And I really like my 15" 2016 MBP. I'm aware of problems others are having, but I don't have them at all.

You are most fortunate that Apple appears to be a company that makes products you want. For some of us, there have been along the last few months/years nagging issues that have culminated into a list of things we dislike about what Apple is doing and their product line.

To me, I am no longer upset with Apple. I consider them now just another company like Dell, HP and yes, Microsoft (in the hardware section). The OP's view is shared by many these days and for a fanboi its far more painful to come to the realization of what today's Apple is all about.

Apple has had a major hard on for "thin" which translates to form over function. Apple had created an "eco" system that could have morphed into the notion of an "Apple House" where lots of items in the home were either made by or controlled by an Apple device but they failed to see that market just like they failed to see the potential market of gamers and high end users that buy similar to professionals (non pros that would buy a Mac Pro if it were a better machine and not out of date).

So today we see the likes of Google and Amazon starting to fill in the "house" market quite nicely while Apple's appearance in this venue is rather "thin" and lackluster.

 

[Tomorrow]

iPhone was a quantum leap in smartphones in 2007 - now many of the features in the iPhone 7 just play catch-up.

I think you're being overly generous. If I remember correctly, the original iPhone did not have cut-and-paste capability, no app store or means of adding 3rd party apps until about a year after launch, no MMS capability, and some other features that were on smartphones available in 2005. Not exactly what I would call a "quantum leap in smartphones."

 

[sunapple]

You are most fortunate that Apple appears to be a company that makes products you want. For some of us, there have been along the last few months/years nagging issues that have culminated into a list of things we dislike about what Apple is doing and their product line.

To me, I am no long upset with Apple. I consider them now just another company like Dell, HP and yes, Microsoft (in the hardware section). The OP's view is shared by many these days and for a fanboi its far more painful to come to the realization of what today's Apple is all about.

Apple has had a major hard on for "thin" which translates to form over function. Apple had created an "eco" system that could have morphed into the notion of an "Apple House" where lots of items in the home were either made by or controlled by an Apple device but they failed to see that market just like they failed to see the potential market of gamers and high end users that buy similar to professionals (non pros that would buy a Mac Pro if it were a better machine and not out of date).

So today we see the likes of Google and Amazon starting to fill in the "house" market quite nicely while Apple's appearance in this venue is rather "thin" and lackluster.

I would agree that Apple now makes rather conventional products while more exiting developments exist. I'm not sure if Apple should make smart light bulbs and Wi-Fi routers when they instead can develop software like HomeKit that enables you to seamlessly use smart house devices with your Apple products, while the hardware itself is being developed by companies more devoted to these specific devices.

We have two AirPort Extremes and one Time Capsule in our house. They were really easy to set up and work great, despite being outdated. If Apple made the setup of the network easy on iOS and macOS while ASUS made great routers, I wouldn't complain. HomeKit with Siri may be an example of how 3rd party devices are integrated in Apple's system.
[doublepost=1481573856][/doublepost]

I think you're being overly generous. If I remember correctly, the original iPhone did not have cut-and-paste capability, no app store or means of adding 3rd party apps until about a year after launch, no MMS capability, and some other features that were on smartphones available in 2005. Not exactly what I would call a "quantum leap in smartphones."

You're ignoring multi-touch and the fact that every smartphone after 2007 looked like an iPhone. The first iPhone is widely being recognized as being quite revolutionary.

 

[phrehdd]

I would agree that Apple now makes rather conventional products while more exiting developments exist. I'm not sure if Apple should make smart light bulbs and Wi-Fi routers when they instead can develop software like HomeKit that enables you to seamlessly use smart house devices with your Apple products, while the hardware itself is being developed by companies more devoted to these specific devices.

We have two AirPort Extremes and one Time Capsule in our house. They were really easy to set up and work great, despite being outdated. If Apple made the setup of the network easy on iOS and macOS while ASUS made great routers, I wouldn't complain. HomeKit with Siri may be an example of how 3rd party devices are integrated in Apple's system.
[doublepost=1481573856][/doublepost]

You're ignoring multi-touch and the fact that every smartphone after 2007 looked like an iPhone. The first iPhone is widely being recognized as being quite revolutionary.

We are not very far from one another in thought. I think Apple could have expanded their eco system to include more items in the home including homekit related. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine a home set up that includes many devices that can communicate with one another and/or control non-Apple devices plus access to the internet. Perhaps the router would morph into something that is a bit smarter with respect to internal items ...there are so many possibilities. Returning back to reality for a moment, Apple had many opportunities and yet not too much attention from them continues.

 

[UKgaryb]

Fact is innovation in the industry is slowing rapidly. Intel are not churning out chip's like they used to, DDR4 has little to no benefit in a laptop, fact is the CPU's / RAM from 2013/2014 are more than capable for most demanding tasks. The only area the new laptop is lacking is in graphics performance, would have been great to see them put Nvidia's chips in.

The only "innovation" is Microsoft making a bifurcated and disjointed attempt at the surface, which isn't really a workhorse, you cannot compare a dual core cpu with the quad of the 15" MacBook Pro. Windows 10 is turning into pretty much a car crash as much as Microsoft can make.

Adverts, Broken DHCP, Broken Webcam's, Bad batteries in Surface, BSOD on Surfacebook, No thunderbolt or SSD in the new surface canvas thing..... the list goes on.

Back to Apple:
It's disappointing to see them drop the Esc key, as a hardened coder in Vi it'll kill me.

The only place I think Apple dropped the ball is on Price, they have alienated a lot of potential upgraders who will stick to their kit.

People are bitching about USB-C, fact is it's becoming the industry standard like USB was on the first iMac, apple bets on a roadmap and it's all USB-C in 2 / 3 years no one will be blinking at all USB-C Machines. Where I do think they messed up with not moving to USB-C on the iPhone, having headphones with lightning connectors means you can't plug them into the laptops which is very wrong.

 

[Tomorrow]

You're ignoring multi-touch and the fact that every smartphone after 2007 looked like an iPhone. The first iPhone is widely being recognized as being quite revolutionary.

No, I'm not forgetting that at all. In fact, I remember using one of these back in 2005:

On-screen keyboard, full multimedia, MMS, copy/paste, and the ability to add (and even develop your own) applications - long before people started calling them "apps."

I won't deny that the iPhone opened the floodgates for even more of these devices, but they were far from the first, and their 2007 version was sorely crippled compared to other offerings at the time. Multitouch was hardly "revolutionary."

 

[62tele]

I think you're being overly generous. If I remember correctly, the original iPhone did not have cut-and-paste capability, no app store or means of adding 3rd party apps until about a year after launch, no MMS capability, and some other features that were on smartphones available in 2005. Not exactly what I would call a "quantum leap in smartphones."

Yes it was. It changed everything. That is why everything that came afterwards aped the iPhone. The first Android commercial I remember is the one with Phil Jackson holding a device that looked remarkably like an iPhone and had the same "swipe" features. I thought he was holding an iPhone.
The iPhone killed Blackberry, then the industry leader, killed Microsoft mobile (RIP) and made Google rethink their first version of Android. The iPhone was a game changer in every way.
[doublepost=1481585016][/doublepost]

Ever since I started using the Mac Plus in 1986, I've been a diehard "fanboi" of Apple products. They have defined their products as cutting-edge and consumer-friendly. Having now used them for 30 years, I'm starting to see some chinks in the armor.

The core market that brought them to this point has been the Mac market - but that's not how they've made most of their money for about a decade. That is definitely phones. So it's understandable that they are not focusing on Macs as much as they used to, but EVEN PHONES have seen a reduction in innovation.

iPhone was a quantum leap in smartphones in 2007 - now many of the features in the iPhone 7 just play catch-up. MacBook Pros were the sexiest laptop a decade ago - now the latest model is broadly panned. The new wireless mouse has the charging port ON THE BOTTOM. MacOS Sierra is glitchy and I'm leaving many of my friend's Macs on El Cap. They're not even making their great AirPort wifi access points anymore. The differences in ease-of-use and "just works" that led a new user to an ecosystem of products is rapidly turning into "just buy our phone."

I wish I didn't have to type this, since I own 10 Apple products (iPhones, iPad Air, Macs, MacBook Air, Airport Extremes and Expresses, etc.) I hate the fact that I just bought an ASUS 802.11ac router and repeater. I hate the fact that I have posted numerous pans of the 2016 MacBook Pro online. I hate the fact that I am migrating to Alexa for home automation. I hate this. But it's happening.

Everyone has their opinions and choices to make. I may get to where you are but I am not anywhere close to leaving Apple at this time. At some point in the next 15 months I'll buy a new iMac, MacBook or MacBook Pro and an iPhone. If Apple gets a Smart Speaker to market I will get one of those assuming it works well after it's vetted. (I won't be an early adopter).
I've been to the Apple Store once and to Best Buy (for the purposes of comparing to the Surface etc) and nothing even remotely suggests that I would change. Different strokes.

 

[phrehdd]

Yes it was. It changed everything. That is why everything that came afterwards aped the iPhone. The first Android commercial I remember is the one with Phil Jackson holding a device that looked remarkably like an iPhone and had the same "swipe" features. I thought he was holding an iPhone.
The iPhone killed Blackberry, then the industry leader, killed Microsoft mobile (RIP) and made Google rethink their first version of Android. The iPhone was a game changer in every way.

The iPhone was indeed a game changer. - Just not all for the better and some for the worst. In the consumer area, they were a positive game changer (though they were somewhat a failure at serving up in many areas the required power and connectivity for reasonably fast web browsing etc.). In the business world they were a disaster early on because there was not enough tools to make them a secure item in the workplace. Blackberry was a preferred phone for a reason among IT and IS folks (and some other makes) over the iPhone. Obviously, folks requiring cell phones at work didn't like having to have 2 phones and also some companies got the idea of BYO was cheaper and an acceptable risk. The latter created the real havoc for the Blackberry et al. - And here we are today with the iPhone as a major player in the consumer arena and now in the business world venue.

 

[caskibum]

In the long run, I think the biggest thing Apple has done for us as consumers is forced their competition to be better. Years ago I convinced one of my friends to buy a Mini (NOT a 2014 lol) and his first remark was about the "Apple Experience". Right from the packaging, everything was better. Now, everyone packages things nicely and the tech experience in general is just better. The whole industry has been forced to rise to competition with Apple products (and other great innovators). Sonos, Nest, Android, Windows, a whole myriad of very cool networking and IoT products with great interfaces and innovative features.

So, don't bemoan the end of "the Apple days". They aren't over, it's just that all of those great products that make your tech life better aren't all made by one company any more.

I do wish they would just give up and open up macOS for general install. I know they never will, total pipe dream, but as decent as Windows is, I still strongly dislike it.

 

[sunapple]

No, I'm not forgetting that at all. In fact, I remember using one of these back in 2005:

On-screen keyboard, full multimedia, MMS, copy/paste, and the ability to add (and even develop your own) applications - long before people started calling them "apps."

I won't deny that the iPhone opened the floodgates for even more of these devices, but they were far from the first, and their 2007 version was sorely crippled compared to other offerings at the time. Multitouch was hardly "revolutionary."

Being first and revolutionizing the industry are hardly every the same thing. Being first on a few things can still make for a forgettable device, the iPhone was the first one to get it right and to have succes. It's not about features, but the experience and the creation of something people just want despite it being not completely rational.

You're right, the first iPhone didn't get everything right and wasn't first. Apple plays an entirely different game. The iPhone was and still is an experience, not usually for technical people who care only about the numbers.

 

[zaaach48]

You are most fortunate that Apple appears to be a company that makes products you want. For some of us, there have been along the last few months/years nagging issues that have culminated into a list of things we dislike about what Apple is doing and their product line.

To me, I am no long upset with Apple. I consider them now just another company like Dell, HP and yes, Microsoft (in the hardware section). The OP's view is shared by many these days and for a fanboi its far more painful to come to the realization of what today's Apple is all about.

Apple has had a major hard on for "thin" which translates to form over function. Apple had created an "eco" system that could have morphed into the notion of an "Apple House" where lots of items in the home were either made by or controlled by an Apple device but they failed to see that market just like they failed to see the potential market of gamers and high end users that buy similar to professionals (non pros that would buy a Mac Pro if it were a better machine and not out of date).

So today we see the likes of Google and Amazon starting to fill in the "house" market quite nicely while Apple's appearance in this venue is rather "thin" and lackluster.

you can remove the "appears" there, because for most of us, Apple DOES make products we want. I think anyone who DIDN'T ever consider Apple to be "just another tech company" drank the cool-aid too early on. I love Apple products but yes, they are another consumer electronics company who's goal has always been to make money. All of the "think different," "it just works," "tools for the mind that advance humankind," is just marketing nonsense and people should have known that from the start. Learn to read between the lines and manage your expectations realistically.

You say they have already failed in the home automation business, but i don't understand how you can jump to such a conclusion in a market that is SO young still. There is so much progress to be made in that segment, it's WAY to early to call that a loss. As far as gamers and pros go, Apple goes for the larger markets - "normal" users and education.

 

[nnoble]

Ever since I started using the I hate this. But it's happening.

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz Another tedious variation on the 'I'm leaving thread'.

 

[merkinmuffley]

Been using Macs since 1984, never touched a Windows system until last week when my Lenovo 910 got delivered. It's not that bad, I have to think about what I'm doing on it but I can get stuff done. Bought it to replace an aging Macbook Pro, only use will be when I travel to quickly review, cull and light edit (it runs PS and LR very nicely) photos I take while on a shoot. It has a great keyboard, much better than the 2016 Macbook Pro systems I tried - 4k screen and it doesn't need any dongles for me to get my work done.

 

[tod]

I've also been using Macs nearly as long (remember throwing INITs and CDEVs directly in the System Folder?). If it wasn't for my need to use Xcode, my next computer would be a PC running Linux.

Apple today is resembling more and more the John Sculley era: more profitable than ever, but losing its soul.

The new computers prioritize thinness over functionality. On a laptop I can't really blame them for making that tradeoff -- laptops are supposed to be portable. So why is it that I can't get dedicated graphics in a 21.5" iMac? I want to buy that size iMac not because I can't afford the 27", but because I don't want to move the mouse around a screen the size of Wyoming all day. And yet Apple differentiates its products by screen size, so the smaller iMac gets less powerful components. So I have to buy a less capable iMac than I want either because of their marketing strategy, or their obsession with thinness. Goddamn it, just make the iMac half a centimeter thicker and give me an option for a dedicated GPU in there. It sits on a desk; it doesn't need to be anorexically thin.

I'm also disappointed by the hype over the Touch Bar. It is nearly useless. It adds a fifth way to access commands, in addition to the menu bar, right-click menus, on-screen toolbars, and keyboard shortcuts. The majority of what you can do on the Touch Bar, which requires you to look at the thing so you can see which button you're pressing, I can do with keyboard shortcuts without taking my eyes off the screen. The Touch Bar is an unnecessary complication that drives up the price while offering little.

The new keyboard sucks. I bought one and tried to adjust. I really, really tried. I know I'm probably set in my ways a bit and maybe this is better. It's not. I had to return the computer. I type for a living. The new ultra thin keyboards are perfect for people who don't type much.

I know Apple loves that word "focus", but they seriously can't get a couple of guys to update the Mac Pro's processor once a year, or keep Airport as a viable product? Even if they had to sell it at cost, just to offer a complete solution, they could afford to do so.

The creativity is gone. The exuberance of the first iMacs was a brief phase. We now have cold, sterile, anorexic razor blades that aren't comfortable to type on, cost way too much, and are laughably underpowered. Other PC manufacturers actually offer choices, and their hardware looks less ****** all the time. I'm still using a 2012 Mac Mini because the 2014 is actually a step down! And they took away the second internal drive connector, which there is plenty of room for, and I actually use on my 2012.

If I had to guess, I'd say Apple believes wholeheartedly that the iPad is the future of general purpose computing, and they're milking Mac users as hard as they can. There are still enough people who will pay too much for too little, so they don't bother making really great Macs anymore.

 

[theatremusician]

I feel your lamentation. Tim Cook has taken a special company and made it ordinary.

 

[Since1987]

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz Another tedious variation on the 'I'm leaving thread'.

When your MOST loyal, LONGEST standing users are saying that they have had enough.... you should listen instead of mocking them. There are plenty of people young enough to have never experienced Apple when "it just works!". If you actually, factually lived with the Apple experience when it was truly Magical.... then you are very very unhappy with the clowns running something you used to cherish into the ground while claiming false "Courage" and "Magic".

Most annoying.... Apple could still totally own the Computer and OS market. But like FCPX, they seem to be intentionally sabotaging it so they can finally exit the market altogether. Windows is a little bit better, MacOS is WAY worse than 10 years ago. Spin the Mac division into it's own company with it's own employees... win win. That is... if they WANT to win ( hint.... they don't. They just want to make phones and wireless headphones and they want Mac to die )

 

[robgendreau]

I'm sorry, but I don't have much sympathy. You seem to have had a slavish devotion to the commercial juggernaut that is Apple, and now you don't. Good. I suppose an investor might be concerned about these issues, but a consumer? not so much. There are plenty of good products available from other manufacturers. Moral: don't be a fanboi.

 

[phrehdd]

you can remove the "appears" there, because for most of us, Apple DOES make products we want. I think anyone who DIDN'T ever consider Apple to be "just another tech company" drank the cool-aid too early on. I love Apple products but yes, they are another consumer electronics company who's goal has always been to make money. All of the "think different," "it just works," "tools for the mind that advance humankind," is just marketing nonsense and people should have known that from the start. Learn to read between the lines and manage your expectations realistically.

You say they have already failed in the home automation business, but i don't understand how you can jump to such a conclusion in a market that is SO young still. There is so much progress to be made in that segment, it's WAY to early to call that a loss. As far as gamers and pros go, Apple goes for the larger markets - "normal" users and education.

Zaaach, I cannot respond here without sounding insulting so I'll acknowledge that you responded and leave it at that.

 

[nnoble]

When your MOST loyal, LONGEST standing users are saying that they have had enough.... you should listen instead of mocking them. There are plenty of people young enough to have never experienced Apple when "it just works!". If you actually, factually lived with the Apple experience when it was truly Magical.... then you are very very unhappy with the clowns running something you used to cherish into the ground while claiming false "Courage" and "Magic".

Most annoying.... Apple could still totally own the Computer and OS market. But like FCPX, they seem to be intentionally sabotaging it so they can finally exit the market altogether. Windows is a little bit better, MacOS is WAY worse than 10 years ago. Spin the Mac division into it's own company with it's own employees... win win. That is... if they WANT to win ( hint.... they don't. They just want to make phones and wireless headphones and they want Mac to die )

Why should you be 'loyal'? Why all this emotional 'Fanboi' stuff? Why worry about a commercial company? Just go out and buy what suits you. 'Longest standing user(s) = inertia more like it.