This fanboi is starting to migrate away from Apple

[macsmurf]

Absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. Mine was a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge back in Augustus but moved back to an iPhone 7 Plus in October. Little things like being able to send text message from the desktop, accept and continue phone calls, copy and paste data, continue browsing on desktop or phone , photos reliably and instantly synchronising and so on made a real difference to me.

All of those are nice features if you need them. I used to be very happy with the SMS sync feature but these days I use WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger much more. With phone calls I have never used my desktop. I use my phone and/or my wireless headphones. I've had trouble getting continuity to work reliably and also don't seem to need it. I do care about photos sync but again it was not reliable and I ended up using dropbox instead. In general, I've not been impressed with the sync aspect of Apple's services. Granted, that might be because of the particular combination of Apple products that I use but it has never "just worked" for me.

So that's actually a good example. To you these features are useful. To me they seem to be half-baked gimmicks.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Weird I've never needed to do more than use the same iCloud account on the devices and it just works. Very strange it doesn't for you.

I think there may be a cultural difference as well. SMS messaging is much bigger in Europe. And most corporate phones don't have things like WhatsApp or other social media enabled.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I still prefer using OS X over windows, and as such, still hold out some faint flickering hope that Apple will take the Mac seriously again, or if abandoned, be replaced by something truly next generation and capable. I wish "little company that could" still would be bold, and try, now that they're the big company they are. However, when I look back on it, it really is starting to look as if right around the time Jobs passed away, after the staff upheaval, the company coasted along on its road map, producing what was already in the product plan, put innovation on hold, let the bean-counter value-engineer their product line, then flitted about in different markets, couldn't make a decision on what to get into next, failed out of the ones they flirted with, dropped the ball on their bread & butter, coasted, stagnated, and spent an entire year or three luffing in the doldrums, spindrifting. If it weren't for the "anything with an apple logo on it must be good, right?" consumers, Apple would be up a creek. ...and you can only ride that reputation out so far.

For the tech company with more money than all the gods in all the heavens, Apple has yet to create anything impressive, much less impressive proportionate to their resources.

I like Tim Cook, as a human being. But if this were any other company, the board would have removed the leadership long ago already.

 

[groove-agent]

Good to see I"not the only one. As much as I hate to say it, I think the writing is on the wall for Apple. Steve Jobs WAS Apple. He left once, and the bottom fell out. It might be happening again. Hopefully with enough people bitching, they'll get their act together ... somehow.

I'm personally in a position to buy some new Apple gear, but there's nothing out there really worth the money IMO. I was hoping for a new MBP but hard wired overpriced SSDs? Only USB3.1? Mediocre performance? For the money, you can keep it Apple. A hackintosh will be my next machine which is pretty much one foot out of the door for me.

The OP is right that people are buying into an ecosystem of products. As an example, I got an android car stereo and am thinking about an Android phone for the compatibility This is how it works. Apple take note.

 

[andiwm2003]

I can only echo the sentiment in this thread. I never was a full apple fanboi. I always had windows machines as well but I always used Macs as the center of my digital life. But Apple has continuously gotten worse for normal computing tasks. Pretty much every software from apple got dumbed down to the point where it's useless to me (Photo's is the best example). I like the ecosystem and apple is still a bit better than google/android. However this doesn't justify the compromises you have to make on the hardware side anymore.

The main culprit in my opinion is not Tim Cook. He has no vision and no commitment to the Mac. But Jonny Ive is the one who drives prices up and performance down with ridiculous designs. The stuff he designs looks good for the first 5 minutes but when you use it you quickly find out that he is in fact not a good designer.

I'm hunting for a refurbished MBP right now and then I'll see if Apple turns around and makes good products again. If not then fortunately there are by now good alternatives around.

 

[lcseds]

Right you are. The first few days of ownership you admire the beautifully crafted piece of work. Then you start looking where to plug stuff in, how fast it encodes, etc. There the Apple Mac falls art. Usability=Fail. Design=Win. Which do you prefer is the question.

PS....When I say Usability fail, I don't mean that literally. So many here will take comments like that in that context. It's a generalization/opinion.

 

[tentales]

Pink? Making excuses? My turn… You're an IT guy, I hire and fire guys with that "title" after finding all of them are pretty useless and don't get out of mom's basement too often. It's nice to be the owner. Ahh, much better now… Keep your thinly-veiled and demeaning personal attacks to yourself, and I'll do the same.

Maybe you're a lousy boss that doesn't know how to hire qualified help. Firing people appears to be an enjoyable practice for you. "IT guy" is a generic term, not a designation. You couldn't afford my rate anyhow, that's why you hire basement dwellers. You get what you pay for.

I didn't veil anything. Why so thin skinned on the issue? You should be proud of it, instead you come on here insulting IT guys with "finding all of them are pretty useless". Smart move on an IT forum. The likes are piling up.

Christmas shopping season watching 6 rMPS walk out the door is your indication that all is well with Apple "computers" ?

I don't really care to change your mind, but fact is the OP started this thread that you took issue with. Like maflynn said, use the best tool for your job, not the other way round.
[doublepost=1483675365][/doublepost]

I haven't disappeared - I've been reading everyone's comments pretty regularly. It's not that I "hate" my product choices - it's that Apple has taken their eye off the ball in recent years and not giving us the magic they used to.

THAT's what I'm bemoaning. Steve Jobs might have been hell to work for, but the man knew how to make great products.

When the iPhone came out, people were in awe (yes, despite its short-term feature problems which were quickly resolved). Nobody had an App Store of any size for phones before iPhone. Nobody had a decent tablet before iPad. Heck, nobody had backlit keyboards or MagSafe chargers before the MacBooks brought those things out - now, those innovations seem few and far between at Apple.

The magic was really attached to one person, more so than any one product. Steve's enigmatic personality along with his tunnel vision on perfecting products was a rare trait that got so many people to follow Apple, even during "not-compatible" years.

The Macbook probably would've never taken off if it wasn't for the halo effect of the iPod success and in subsequent years, the eco-system built around iPhones, iPads and Macs.

Apple invented very little, but perfected a lot of other people's inventions to make it the best it could be at the time.
These days, feature-itis and the pressure to keep up with competition is making Apple lose its "it just works" mantra and they're becoming just another technology company and their prices no longer justifies the perceived "premium".

 

[tentales]

I can only echo the sentiment in this thread. I never was a full apple fanboi. I always had windows machines as well but I always used Macs as the center of my digital life. But Apple has continuously gotten worse for normal computing tasks. Pretty much every software from apple got dumbed down to the point where it's useless to me (Photo's is the best example). I like the ecosystem and apple is still a bit better than google/android. However this doesn't justify the compromises you have to make on the hardware side anymore.

The main culprit in my opinion is not Tim Cook. He has no vision and no commitment to the Mac. But Jonny Ive is the one who drives prices up and performance down with ridiculous designs. The stuff he designs looks good for the first 5 minutes but when you use it you quickly find out that he is in fact not a good designer.

I'm hunting for a refurbished MBP right now and then I'll see if Apple turns around and makes good products again. If not then fortunately there are by now good alternatives around.

Jony had a lot of talent, but he's missing Steve to reign him in. The two of them were a great team. Tim's too nice guy to enforce anything, including saying no to bad design decisions. He's an operations guy.

Also, good hardware design often does not translate well to software design.
Along with firing Forstall and making Jony the big honcho for all design, the Cook messed up this kitchen

I'm also on the refurb rail, only a Mini & MBAir for me though. I'm hunting for hackintosh parts now to replace the Mini down the road.

I'm with you, also hoping that Apple turns it around.

 

[duervo]

Ever since I started using the Mac Plus in 1986, I've been a diehard "fanboi" of Apple products. They have defined their products as cutting-edge and consumer-friendly. Having now used them for 30 years, I'm starting to see some chinks in the armor.

The core market that brought them to this point has been the Mac market - but that's not how they've made most of their money for about a decade. That is definitely phones. So it's understandable that they are not focusing on Macs as much as they used to, but EVEN PHONES have seen a reduction in innovation.

iPhone was a quantum leap in smartphones in 2007 - now many of the features in the iPhone 7 just play catch-up. MacBook Pros were the sexiest laptop a decade ago - now the latest model is broadly panned. The new wireless mouse has the charging port ON THE BOTTOM. MacOS Sierra is glitchy and I'm leaving many of my friend's Macs on El Cap. They're not even making their great AirPort wifi access points anymore. The differences in ease-of-use and "just works" that led a new user to an ecosystem of products is rapidly turning into "just buy our phone."

I wish I didn't have to type this, since I own 10 Apple products (iPhones, iPad Air, Macs, MacBook Air, Airport Extremes and Expresses, etc.) I hate the fact that I just bought an ASUS 802.11ac router and repeater. I hate the fact that I have posted numerous pans of the 2016 MacBook Pro online. I hate the fact that I am migrating to Alexa for home automation. I hate this. But it's happening.

30 years and you're just now starting to see "chinks"? Where were you during the 90's?

 

[groove-agent]

I agree. Tim I'm sure is a good guy and is diplomatic enough to run a business. Steve however had vision and *led* the company, often with an iron fist. Can anyone really fill Steve's shoes?

Jony had a lot of talent, but he's missing Steve to reign him in. The two of them were a great team. Tim's too nice guy to enforce anything, including saying no to bad design decisions. He's an operations guy.

Also, good hardware design often does not translate well to software design.
Along with firing Forstall and making Jony the big honcho for all design, the Cook messed up this kitchen

I'm also on the refurb rail, only a Mini & MBAir for me though. I'm hunting for hackintosh parts now to replace the Mini down the road.

I'm with you, also hoping that Apple turns it around.

 

[Septembersrain]

I agree. Tim I'm sure is a good guy and is diplomatic enough to run a business. Steve however had vision and *led* the company, often with an iron fist. Can anyone really fill Steve's shoes?

It's like a person doing a job and being good at it VS a person doing a job and it's their hobby too. Completely different.

 

[dotnet]

I like Tim Cook, as a human being. But if this were any other company, the board would have removed the leadership long ago already.

Boards don't tend to remove leaderships that grow the business and the profits. They tend to like that sort of leadership.

 

[JPamplin]

30 years and you're just now starting to see "chinks"? Where were you during the 90's?

Funny story - I was part of a tiny IT department that ran an all-Mac shop from 1993 - 1996. The odd thing was the company - it was an HMO (Healthcare insurance and claims processing). At that time, in that industry, it just wasn't done.

It was me and one other guy (who just maintained our RS6000 server). When we got audited by the State regulatory agency, their first question was "where is your IT department? Just 2 GUYS?" We thought it was hilarious that they were dumbfounded at how maintenance free our Macs were, and how little manpower it took to run them (80-100 users).

 

[62tele]

In the business world they were a disaster early on because there was not enough tools to make them a secure item in the workplace. Blackberry was a preferred phone for a reason among IT and IS folks (and some other makes) over the iPhone.

IT people notoriously have a stick up their butts for anything that isnt familiar and are always wary of new tech that pulls them out of their comfort zone. The iphone was no less secure than anything else.

 

[phrehdd]

IT people notoriously have a stick up their butts for anything that isnt familiar and are always wary of new tech that pulls them out of their comfort zone. The iphone was no less secure than anything else.

You really don't have a clue do you what is involved in securing cell phones that go beyond simple phone calls whether it is text, email, add on apps and more. I don't think in all the time I have ever been on these forums have I felt sorry for someone as much as I do for you in your utter lack of knowledge if not politely stated - ignorance. Early on iPhones were akin to running PCs (or Macs) with everyone having Admin rights. Little was done to help make them more secure by Apple as Apple noticeably stayed silent as to the use of iPhone in the business world. The real change came when iPads started showing up and the infamous "exec" level top down trickle came in on getting IOS devices into companies that required I.T. to have to put far more effort in to cover the IOS devices because of its clear lack of ease to have central control/admin over the devices. The real start as a serious business contender came with IOS 7. I'll spare others from over populating this post with the real truth and simply say to you - best move would to be silent and thus not remove all doubt.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

IT people notoriously have a stick up their butts for anything that isnt familiar and are always wary of new tech that pulls them out of their comfort zone. The iphone was no less secure than anything else.

Actually it was less secure than a fully managed RIM Blackberry solution. Much much much less secure, similar to anything not blackberry at the time

Hence it is even more Amazing but should be a very straightforward lesson to Apple, that RIM lost that market. You've got to keep innovating and keep on top of your game.

Apple iPhone is very good currently, as far as I'm aware the only phone (distributable on a global scale like is required for multi-nationals and governments) that can be forced to utilise a secure VPN all the time. Just to highlight a key differentiator. Also the corporate App stores are very good. Apple and associated partners understood the market, they understood that people can do all this stuff on their personal devices and can now provide it securely to the corporate, and government markets as well.

 

[Zaap]

No offense to the OP, but this kind of reminds me of a friend of mine back in the day with extreme brand loyalty with stereo system components. I don't even remember the exact brand- let's say Sony or something- but *everything* had to be that: the receiver, the TV, the graphic EQ, the tape deck, disc player, speakers, the this thing, the that thing....

Then he'd actually get mad because "Oh no! Marantz or whoever were coming out with something *gasp!* better than what Sony made!" Heavens! So he'd be stuck in that terrible position of loving Sony to death, but hating them too for being beaten at something by *gasp!* someone else...


... and all during this phase of his, I'm just wonder... WHY???!!! Who gives a flying rip? Get the best receiver from Yamaha or whoever, the best EQ from whoever else, the best monitor from whomever else... etc. etc. etc. In the end, you'll probably have the best possible system for your money- what's all this *INSANE* level of brand loyalty getting you?

I just don't get brand loyalty to the point anyone gives a flying rip what company makes their router for pete's sake- all these things are designed to work with each other, so if something is the best for you, get that regardless who makes it.

I've seen people do the Apple thing where they'll reject things like a better third party mouse, monitor, printer, router, NAS, external drives, etc etc.... because of loyalty for a name on a box rather than what was actually a better product.

That's always seemed a bit silly to me. I enjoy my MacBooks and a few other Apple products- but I'll happily use them with third party just-about-everything-else because Apple doesn't make the best or most cost-effective of just-about-everything-else.

 

[maflynn]

I just don't get brand loyalty

People get emotionally invested in a brand, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If there was no brand loyalty, there's be no MacRumors. People would not want to be talking about Apple.

 

[Zaap]

People get emotionally invested in a brand, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If there was no brand loyalty, there's be no MacRumors. People would not want to be talking about Apple.

...to a level where people take it so far they're mad about buying a better product simply because it's not the brand they are loyal to.

 

[phrehdd]

Zaap you made me smile. I remember those "stereo daze" as we called 'em from back when. Your words ring true for many. I know you were making a good point but I admit I am just glad you gave me a blast from my own past.
I gather you probably had Federated audio stores, Good Guys, and a few more (Leo's etc.).

As for Apple - since I have fully come to grips and recast it (in my mind) as "just another company," it allows me to explore lots more options for items that may fill the bill on things I need or want.

Android choices vs iPhone
Android media player/streamer vs Roku and ATV
PC vs Mac computer
3rd Party network vs AE retiring

The list goes on and I have choices now. I love that.

PS Zaap - In stereo days, I ended up building Dynaco pre amps and amps for my needs to avoid the frustrations after having had Pioneer, Sansui, Marantz and the rest of the usual suspects (grin). If I could have kept one thing it would have been the Teac reel to reel.

 

[Chicane-UK]

Why should you be 'loyal'? Why all this emotional 'Fanboi' stuff? Why worry about a commercial company? Just go out and buy what suits you. 'Longest standing user(s) = inertia more like it.

This is completely illogical. We all know Apple are perfectly capable of making better desktop Macs, but are instead just putting their attention elsewhere. We're having to settle for alternative products from another company which are arguably inferior to systems that we KNOW Apple could produce with ease. But because they return less profit and require more effort, they can't be bothered. And certainly in my case, whilst Windows continues to improve, macOS still the far nicer user experience.

It's got nothing to do with fanboyism. It's pure frustration. I'd rather be using a mac. Apple were making money on the Mac, just not as much. Like they can't hire more people and do iGadgets AND macs?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Zaap you made me smile. I remember those "stereo daze" as we called 'em from back when. Your words ring true for many. I know you were making a good point but I admit I am just glad you gave me a blast from my own past.
I gather you probably had Federyated audio stores, Good Guys, and a few more (Leo's etc.).

As for Apple - since I have fully come to grips and recast it (in my mind) as "just another company," it allows me to explore lots more options for items that may fill the bill on things I need or want.

Android choices vs iPhone
Android media player/streamer vs Roku and ATV
PC vs Mac computer
3rd Party network vs AE retiring

The list goes on and I have choices now. I love that.

PS Zaap - In stereo days, I ended up building Dynaco pre amps and amps for my needs to avoid the frustrations after having had Pioneer, Sansui, Marantz and the rest of the usual suspects (grin). If I could have kept one thing it would have been the Teac reel to reel.

I've been on that journey many a time, it is just something one has to get out of their system. Bar the AE I've came back several times. I've normally found that the initial shiny shiny bling bling worked wonders to then uncover when used in earnest the different compromises do not sit well with me in the long run. I'm sure I'll make such deviations several times more in the future to learn and appreciate what I've already got.

I also know that despite ones own experiences, there is no point in telling others that or what to do. This is something they'll have to experience themselves and draw their own conclusions.

Discussions are fun, but rather pointless at the same time as well. Everything is subject to a compromise, but which compromise is acceptable to who is a very different story. As such there is no correct answer.

 

[joshuaad]

It's too early to reach any conclusion as to who will lead the way in the various product categories. Possibly "pipeline" Tim won't be "pipeline" Tim forever and great products in an even greater ecosystem will appear and show others how it's done once again. The new MBP might not be for everybody. You can wish Apple had their version of the Echo products. That's easy enough to do. We'll see how things go. I only agree that no one should be blindly buying products that do not fit their needs or budget. Buy what you like and need. Enjoy it until you don't. Move on if you want or need to. Personally, I want Apple to keep making great products, lead the way as they have been, but only if they can make sure "it just works" as I expect from only Apple products, and that's been harder to say of late. Still, I'm optimistic and am a long way from considering other mobile or computer products. Good stuff takes time. Great stuff even more so. Things evolve in cycles so patience and buy what you have to to get the job done in the mean time.... My 2 cents.

 

[martint235]

This is completely illogical. We all know Apple are perfectly capable of making better desktop Macs, but are instead just putting their attention elsewhere. We're having to settle for alternative products from another company which are arguably inferior to systems that we KNOW Apple could produce with ease. But because they return less profit and require more effort, they can't be bothered. And certainly in my case, whilst Windows continues to improve, macOS still the far nicer user experience.

It's got nothing to do with fanboyism. It's pure frustration. I'd rather be using a mac. Apple were making money on the Mac, just not as much. Like they can't hire more people and do iGadgets AND macs?

If you are settling for alternative products from another company which are arguably inferior to what Apple could produce then it is extremely likely that those products are inferior to what Company X could produce. So why are you settling? Price, ease of use, better than Apple?

I do think the "Apple Fanboy" takes brand loyalty to a whole new level. A lot of domestic appliances in my house are made by Bosch but I don't get upset if they remove a feature from an appliance or don't create a feature that I've asked for. I also don't worry that the fridge/freezer is made by Samsung.

I moved from Android to Apple last year primarily because I wanted a small footprint phone (the SE). I then got used to the "it just does it" setup on Apple although I have missed being able to put a new ROM on my phone (but I've also probably saved myself many hours of my life by not being able to). I now have the iPhone 7 and it is still "just doing it". If Apple aren't making what you want it's very easy to find someone who is.

As for all the criticism of Tim Cook, from a non fan boy perspective, this is just ridiculous. So he's not making what you want, he's not innovating enough. However he is making billions for Apple shareholders and that's kind of what a shareholder likes.

 

[maflynn]

However he is making billions for Apple shareholders and that's kind of what a shareholder likes.

Yup, but even the shareholders or at least the investment bankers want to see Apple's next thing. They're relying on a single product line and if something happened to the iPhone, then all those earnings would disappear. This was the same complaint with MS with Windows/Office, most of the profits came from there and investors were worried.

So Cook has been great at managing the product and eking out every last cent from the iPhones, what is Apple going to do next - that's the thing. I'm not saying he's not able to do that, but rather with the iPhone product maturing and computer sales as a whole shrinking. They need to have other revenue sources.