This is why we won't get BBC iPlayer on Apple TV in the UK

[DJinTX]

I like Apple products and certainly own enough of them, including the Apple TV. But this is an open project and Apple prefer the walled garden approach. They also like taking your money and the beauty of YouView is that you don't have to pay for anything unless you want anything from the premium content.

Apple want you to pay $0.99 to rent a TV show, with YouView it will be available free of charge for at least a week.

For TV, I don't think Apple necessarily prefers a walled garden, I think the walled garden approach is plan B because they are having a hard time doing what YouView is doing. Now iTunes content will always cost something, and usually you will pay a premium for Apple hardware (although not so for the new ATV), but I think they are just being stifled by the networks and cable companies of the world.

An interesting article over on 9 to 5 Mac about what they believe some of the true functionality of the ATV will be involving Airplay. It's a good read...

http://www.9to5mac.com/27015/airplay-is-apples-go-to-market-internet-tv-strategy

If this is true, then it looks like Apple will be allowing free streaming of SD content, and only charging if you want HD versions. I for one am fine with free So content for catching up on shows. Although movies will definitely need to be HD.

 

[DJinTX]

Bloody hell I hope not, Steve would strip out all the good parts, and then sell it back to you telling you thats it's now better than ever.... Oh no wait silly me thats what he did with the AppleTV

Off topic...Kudos for encorporating "Bloody Hell" into your post. I think that gets you the "colorful brit" achievement for today

As for the new ATV, the only thing "stripped out" was the hard drive. Of course to meet one of their goals and drop the price significantly, they had to do this, and it also lined up with their streaming philosophy. I can't see Apple's roadmap, so the lack of internal storage makes me feel uneasy, but I think it will work out. They tend to know what they are doing.

Besides this, the ATV is an improvement in almost every way. The old ATV used a very old processor and video chips, was laggy, ran extremely hot, and was just stagnating. I guess some users were telling Apple it was too big, although I could care less about it's size. To me it was still much smaller than any other box on my shelf, so it was fine. Of course, I don't mind them making it tiny either.

So now it has all new internal components, it runs cool and silent, is tiny, and has a new core OS that will be much more efficient and will support apps/widgets (if apple decides to add this functionality).

I think it's going to be a very good product.

 

[afd]

And the likelyhood of Apple putting Safari or any other web browser on the ATV is none. Apple like to be firmly in control of what content you're able to view on the ATV once they add a browser, thus opening the door to people viewing other web based content, they lose that control and all the profits that go along with it.

I'm not so sure, Apple need to do more to make the Apple TV appeal to the masses. Putting a browser or other apps on it would add to it's appeal. The last version wasn't that different from the current so they have to do more to make it sell like iPods or iPhones.
Unless my current Apple TV dies, I won't be replacing it with a new one in it's current form. Am app store, or even just a few more apps - browser, email and some dashboard-type widgets and I'll be straight over to the Apple Shop.
You might be right about apple just wanting to restrict us to the iTunes content, but if they don't realise the devices potential I'm sure the jailbreak community will.

 

[roidy]

Off topic...Kudos for encorporating "Bloody Hell" into your post. I think that gets you the "colorful brit" achievement for today

YES, I've finally won something... Thank You.

As for the new ATV, the only thing "stripped out" was the hard drive. Of course to meet one of their goals and drop the price significantly, they had to do this, and it also lined up with their streaming philosophy. I can't see Apple's roadmap, so the lack of internal storage makes me feel uneasy, but I think it will work out. They tend to know what they are doing.

Actually it's not the removal of the hard drive that annoys me, I only ever stream to my ATV, it's the fact that without it I can no longer purchase content on the new AppleTV. I'm a firm believer in buying rather than renting my media, I can quite happily watch a movie or TV show 3 or 4 times and after that many watches rental becomes more expensive than buying. The fact, for me, is that now the new ATV is no longer a completely stand alone lounge experience, if I want to purchase content I will have to browse and purchase using iTunes on a computer, were as at the moment I can get comfortable on the sofa, browse for a movie, purchase it and watch it without ever having to move.

Besides this, the ATV is an improvement in almost every way. The old ATV used a very old processor and video chips, was laggy, ran extremely hot, and was just stagnating. I guess some users were telling Apple it was too big, although I could care less about it's size. To me it was still much smaller than any other box on my shelf, so it was fine. Of course, I don't mind them making it tiny either.

So now it has all new internal components, it runs cool and silent, is tiny, and has a new core OS that will be much more efficient and will support apps/widgets (if apple decides to add this functionality).

I think it's going to be a very good product.

I agree that apart from the lack of storage and the inability to purchase content that the new hardware is far more powerful, but why make it more powerful and then not use that extra power? I doubt it would of added that much more to the price for Apple to just add a tiny bit of storage so people like me could continue purchasing their media on the ATV. But Apple like the rental only business model because in the long run it will probably make them more money.

So will I be buying one.... Not at first no, for me my current ATV does much more than the new one will. I'm from the UK so no NetFlix and I'm not interested in renting TV shows. Now if and when the new AppleTV gets hacked then it becomes a different story

 

[iKennett]

You wont get YouView on the Apple TV as it wont meet the hardware requirements, you could however seen the Film/TV side of iTunes on YouView..... but a doubt that. Apple TV wasn't made with the UK in mind really.

YouView is going to blow up the UK TV market and I can't wait!

 

[DJinTX]

YES, I've finally won something... Thank You.

Actually it's not the removal of the hard drive that annoys me, I only ever stream to my ATV, it's the fact that without it I can no longer purchase content on the new AppleTV. I'm a firm believer in buying rather than renting my media...

I agree somewhat, and it would be nice to at least initiate the purchase on the ATV, even if it goes directly to your Mac instead of the ATV. Who knows, maybe Apple already has a solution for this. But honestly, I haven't bought many shows online. Some of the ones I have purchased have been deleted, and the ones I kept, I have never watched again. I anticipate my rental/purchasing frequency to increase quite a bit after getting this new AppleTV, so I may change my mind about being able to store them. And if I do I will just have to do it on my Mac.

I agree that apart from the lack of storage and the inability to purchase content that the new hardware is far more powerful, but why make it more powerful and then not use that extra power? I doubt it would of added that much more to the price for Apple to just add a tiny bit of storage so people like me could continue purchasing their media on the ATV. But Apple like the rental only business model because in the long run it will probably make them more money.

I think they will be using this extra power, but I don't think power is related to a hard drive. I think they want to use the power to stream. It seems very logical that eventually Apple wants to host all of our content at their billion dollar server farm in North Carolina. If they do this, then we won't need to store it locally. The little black box can remain cool silent and hard drive free, and still give instant access to all our media. I'm not saying I am on board with this...but it could work. It's just a very new concept to get used to.

As for you asking for a "tiny bit of storage" on the ATV... how tiny? Let's just say that the Apple TV had 40 GB, some might call that tiny...this wouldn't allow for much of a collection, and you would be full very quickly. Then you start talking about a little more and a little more...eventually you need 2TB, and that's not cheap. So no hard drive equals much better price. They can't satisfy everyone's storage needs, or can they? Maybe they can if they store everyone's content on their unlimited servers.

 

[roidy]

I agree somewhat, and it would be nice to at least initiate the purchase on the ATV, even if it goes directly to your Mac instead of the ATV.

Thats a great idea.

I think they will be using this extra power, but I don't think power is related to a hard drive. I think they want to use the power to stream. It seems very logical that eventually Apple wants to host all of our content at their billion dollar server farm in North Carolina. If they do this, then we won't need to store it locally. The little black box can remain cool silent and hard drive free, and still give instant access to all our media. I'm not saying I am on board with this...but it could work. It's just a very new concept to get used to.

No of course power has nothing to do with the hard drive, the point I was making is they've made the new ATV more powerful but as of yet haven't used any of that power. As for Apples "cloud storage" thats another wild idea that annoys me, Apple keeping all of my media on there server farm. It's my media I want to store and manage it myself. I don't want to sit down one Saturday night to watch one of my own movies only to have a message pop up on screen saying "Sorry Apples wizz bang new server farm is down for maintenance. Please try again later...."

As for you asking for a "tiny bit of storage" on the ATV... how tiny? Let's just say that the Apple TV had 40 GB, some might call that tiny...this wouldn't allow for much of a collection, and you would be full very quickly. Then you start talking about a little more and a little more...eventually you need 2TB, and that's not cheap. So no hard drive equals much better price. They can't satisfy everyone's storage needs, or can they? Maybe they can if they store everyone's content on their unlimited servers.

When I say a tiny bit I mean just enough to allow me to purchace media on the ATV itself, no more that 8-16Gb.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I think we will see BBC iPlayer on the Apple TV. The main reason, because all of it's rivals in the UK has it, not only but Apple lack any sort of TV coverage for the Apple TV here. It may well be a case of Apple allowing BBC iPlayer on the Apple TV, with content allowed to be viewed within the usual iPlaer 1 week for nothing, while as the season of the shows end or after that date it will then go onto iTunes content that you have to pay for.

For example we might be able to watch the latest episode of Dr Who up to a week after it has first aired, then as soon as the series of DR Who ends it will be available to buy or rent on iTunes like it is available to buy on iTunes now

 

[TheBritishBloke]

If the App Store comes out on the ATV2, I wouldn't be surprised if BBC did jump in there, along with ITV, 4oD, 5 Demand.

I'd like BBC iPlayer, but I think they might not be let on there because "the i will cause brand confusion" xD

What I really want is Sky Player, that's more like the Netflix of the UK (excluding LOVEFiLM, there Streaming section sucks, nothing on it :/), as only subscribers who pay £50/Month for their Satellite (like me ) get access to it, so no loss for Apple, and it's on the Xbox 360, so I don't see why not 8]

 

[tiptopp]

On a different thread (lost it now), a Brit has mentioned firstly how much they love their ATV, and secondly, how they were a bit surprised that BBC and 4OD content on Youtube can't be played via the ATV Youtube channel.

To me, this means one of two things. Either Youview is too important to them to allow their content to be played through any other new, potentially high volume gadget, or there's an iPlayer and 4OD player on the way.

I pray it's the latter - or that the rumoured 'permanent' Jailbreak allows app launching on the ATV...

Cheers,

TT

 

[The Phazer]

On a different thread (lost it now), a Brit has mentioned firstly how much they love their ATV, and secondly, how they were a bit surprised that BBC and 4OD content on Youtube can't be played via the ATV Youtube channel.

To me, this means one of two things. Either Youview is too important to them to allow their content to be played through any other new, potentially high volume gadget, or there's an iPlayer and 4OD player on the way.

I pray it's the latter - or that the rumoured 'permanent' Jailbreak allows app launching on the ATV...

Cheers,

TT

I'm afraid all it means is that YouTube's contract to distribute Channel 4 and Five programmes (I assume you mention the BBC in error, there are no BBC full programmes on YouTube) states that YouTube *must* distribute them using RTMPE, and hence they must be played using Flash 10+.

It's worth noting that they're missing from any device that doesn't support RTMPE (including mobiles), and still there if it does (the Playstation 3 gets them, the Wii doesn't, because the PS3 has Flash 10 and the Wii only has Flash 8 and hence no RTMPE).

I don't think any of the broadcasters are holding things exclusively for YouView - the iPlayer is available on dozens of devices, and so is Demand Five, including intergrated TVs from Sony etc. My understanding from people I know at various broadcasters is simply that Apple hasn't even *asked* any UK broadcaster about Apple TV. At all. Presumably all development is being done in the US, and services Steve can't access Steve doesn't want the team wasting their time developing a UX for.

Phazer

 

[garybUK]

I believe this YouView (Project Canvas) is the outcome from 'Project Kangaroo' which was blocked but YouView is the modified version of said project to meet Ofcom's findings. It was an idea put forward by the BBC to create a standard 'On Demand' platform that was open-source and had certain open standards so any network could put their content on without bias and create an easier delivery method for users.

This is a great idea and should hopefully create a good on demand system.

I doubt Apple will be able to buy this thing as its a community lead project.

I read somewhere the ATV has some inbuilt storage, and solder pads for more. I don't see why this couldn't be licensed out to closed systems like the PS3 / ATV / Wii to be implemented? Maybe a 'Streaming Only' branded version of YouView for ATV etc.

 

[tiptopp]

I'm not a developer by any means, so don't understand how iOS works at all, but if Airplay can push video to the ATV, which it can, is there any way that Apple/BBC, etc. can stop it pushing iPlayer video? It appears to play in the same iPhone media player as anything else, so is this actually the simple answer?

Cheers,

TT

 

[The Phazer]

I read somewhere the ATV has some inbuilt storage, and solder pads for more. I don't see why this couldn't be licensed out to closed systems like the PS3 / ATV / Wii to be implemented? Maybe a 'Streaming Only' branded version of YouView for ATV etc.

The published specs have a mandatory hard drive, some form of broadcast tuner (I believe some of the metadata is coming with the broadcast EPG), Linux as the OS and hardware level support for Marlin DRM, so I can't see it being implemented in any of them. The PS3 is the only one of those platforms that could implement them, and I don't think it has the secure boot for the DRM into linux.

It also requires Flash...

Phazer

 

[The Phazer]

I'm not a developer by any means, so don't understand how iOS works at all, but if Airplay can push video to the ATV, which it can, is there any way that Apple/BBC, etc. can stop it pushing iPlayer video? It appears to play in the same iPhone media player as anything else, so is this actually the simple answer?

Cheers,

TT

They can block it in an app. Don't know about the web streams.

If the BBC don't feel they have the rights, they could always withdraw the iPhone streams and replace it with the already announced iPhone iPlayer app anyway...

Phazer