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iPad This sloppy design drives me nuts!!

MozMan68 said:
No one cares about the MacRumors website which isn't controlled by then and is a platform that has to handle a huge variety of constantly changing data.

Back to the mail page...why wasn't the larger misalignment in landscape mode brought up by you as an example of "poor design" instead of the minuscule misalignment in your original example?

And BTW, I'm not trolling or trying to bust anyone's ass...I work with very high end (and some famous) designers as part of my job and we have these type of conversations all the time. I'm genuinely curious as to what really bothers people and why.
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Had you read my post you knew that I didn’t bring up the landscape view because I don’t use the beta on my phone, nor do I ever compose mails on iPhone in landscape mode.
I haven’t seen the full screen, so I can’t judge how strange or good it looks, but like i said, I guess it’s just dynamic design.

But if you have two elements that are so close to each other and resemble each other in shape (as in both are circular with line shaped elements inside, I’ll strongly argue that they should be aligned!!!) you mentioned stuff in the control center. Of course it should be aligned and of course it is! Or do you see any buttons that are off the grid either in control center or on the home screen?! Jesus. I love how you brag about the high level designers that you work with. Hard to imagine anyone of them would value pointless arguments like yours.

It is bad design, period. This isn’t even debatable, just by objective means and according to apples own design rules that were posted before, stuff should be aligned because it’s easier on the eyes.
[doublepost=1566332913][/doublepost]All of this reminds me of this blog
https://sloppyui.tumblr.com/
 
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chfilm said:
Had you read my post you knew that I didn’t bring up the landscape view because I don’t use the beta on my phone, nor do I ever compose mails on iPhone in landscape mode.
I haven’t seen the full screen, so I can’t judge how strange or good it looks, but like i said, I guess it’s just dynamic design.

But if you have two elements that are so close to each other and resemble each other in shape (as in both are circular with line shaped elements inside, I’ll strongly argue that they should be aligned!!!) you mentioned stuff in the control center. Of course it should be aligned and of course it is! Or do you see any buttons that are off the grid either in control center or on the home screen?! Jesus. I love how you brag about the high level designers that you work with. Hard to imagine anyone of them would value pointless arguments like yours.

It is bad design, period. This isn’t even debatable, just by objective means and according to apples own design rules that were posted before, stuff should be aligned because it’s easier on the eyes.
[doublepost=1566332913][/doublepost]All of this reminds me of this blog
https://sloppyui.tumblr.com/
Click to expand...

I never said you brought up the landscape view...I did...I posted pictures of it and asked what you thought since it is the IDENTICAL buttons in a different view that are also "close" to each other but further misaligned than the example you originally gave.

Please, continue to find more examples of items off by a few pixels and send to Apple. I'm sure they appreciate it.
 
*dont feed the troll, don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll....* not answering to this nonsense anymore.

It was just a rant on bad design, had no idea anyone could be so passive aggressive to start an argument to defend this obvious bug.
But hey, it’s the internet, a loooot of trolls out there, so, should’ve know better.
 
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chfilm said:
*dont feed the troll, don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll, don’t feed the troll....* not answering to this nonsense anymore.

It was just a rant on bad design, had no idea anyone could be so passive aggressive to start an argument to defend this obvious bug.
But hey, it’s the internet, a loooot of trolls out there, so, should’ve know better.
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Definitely don't feed the troll, but also understand that Apple apologists will make excuses for literally ANYTHING. I'm pretty sure I've spent more on Apple hardware, software and services than most of the people on this forum (at 43 y/o, I've been buying Apple gear for many, many years) but that doesn't mean everything they do/make is perfect. Your post is but one example of sloppy design, although it's not something that a lot of people would notice - so when you point it out, people get all defensive and upset. Kinda goes with the territory, I'm afraid.
 
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mavis said:
Apple apologists will make excuses for literally ANYTHING.
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Never understood that part, while i like the company, that does not mean they are faultless, and never understood why getting defensive.

It is not like Apple will discount your next purchase because you are loyal / defend them, it is not like Apple cannot defent demselves, and it is not like Apple cannot admit an error (it would actually make the company better).

So why pay for a product (any not specific to this case) pay good money and when you discover a fault you ....apologize for the company and excuse them, i mean, I would try to demand the best possible not make excuses.

Now there are fault bigger than others, and this is a TINY issu (wich will surely be fixed on release), but we saw HUGE issue lately (bendings, keyboards... should i go on?) and still people prefere to lose on product quality in order to defent A COMPANY.
 
YaBe said:
Never understood that part, while i like the company, that does not mean they are faultless, and never understood why getting defensive.

It is not like Apple will discount your next purchase because you are loyal / defend them, it is not like Apple cannot defent demselves, and it is not like Apple cannot admit an error (it would actually make the company better).

So why pay for a product (any not specific to this case) pay good money and when you discover a fault you ....apologize for the company and excuse them, i mean, I would try to demand the best possible not make excuses.

Now there are fault bigger than others, and this is a TINY issu (wich will surely be fixed on release), but we saw HUGE issue lately (bendings, keyboards... should i go on?) and still people prefere to lose on product quality in order to defent A COMPANY.
Click to expand...

I love Apple and I can be quite apologetic of some of their choices myself But only if I believe something was done with good Intentions, like removing the headphone jack.
But because I love their products so much, I won’t them to be as perfect as possible and that’s why this sluggishness annoys me ;)
Perfection always lays in the tiny details, and I wouldn’t count on this being fixed in the final release..
 
chfilm said:
I love Apple and I can be quite apologetic of some of their choices myself But only if I believe something was done with good Intentions, like removing the headphone jack.
But because I love their products so much, I won’t them to be as perfect as possible and that’s why this sluggishness annoys me ;)
Perfection always lays in the tiny details, and I wouldn’t count on this being fixed in the final release..
Click to expand...
I do not love / hate any company, I simply buy what fits my needs (whoever makes it) but demand what I paid for.

After all while I can understand lower prices might mean lower specs or lower materials that does not mean a lower priced thing should be unfinished unpolished.

That said, expectation with Apple product are set high, because with comparable hardware / material they cost more, and you expect the price difference to be in the details.
 
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chfilm said:
But because I love their products so much, I won’t them to be as perfect as possible and that’s why this sluggishness annoys me ;)
Perfection always lays in the tiny details, and I wouldn’t count on this being fixed in the final release..
Click to expand...

I always find it funny when people want/expect pixel perfect design on a X.0 release. This release's primary goal is to be stable with a design that is mostly there. It's possible this could be fixed in the release version, but if it isn't that doesn't mean Apple won't fix it in a future update specific towards tightening up on the minor/less critical bugs that they didn't want to focus on for the initial release.

You have to realize that while fixing this specific bug might only take a few minutes of a developer's time, it's not about that exactly, it's about organizing the tasks of all minor bugs. If every minor bug was treated as a "this needs fixing" nothing would ever get done. As a result, minor bugs like this are often bucketed and then fixed in bug fix update later in the life cycle of the software. Sometimes they are even deemed so minor that they never actually fix them at all.

Calling this "sloppy" isn't really fair. It's more like a reality of software development in order to meet tight deadlines.
 
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Phogro said:
Calling this "sloppy" isn't really fair. It's more like a reality of software development in order to meet tight deadlines.
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I agree on everything else, and I think the "sloppy" is the attention to detail to begin with, I mean it sure takes little to fix, but even less to do it right the first time.

I mean, design tools have snap on features (to avoid just that), I am sure there must be a way not to make this MINOR but silly errors.

Yes it will be fixed, I am quite sure for the .0 release, if not it is not like the OP will die, but it annoys him, and as a designer, it annoys me as well.

Nothing major or the end of the day ;)
 
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YaBe said:
I agree on everything else, and I think the "sloppy" is the attention to detail to begin with, I mean it sure takes little to fix, but even less to do it right the first time.

I mean, design tools have snap on features (to avoid just that), I am sure there must be a way not to make this MINOR but silly errors.

Yes it will be fixed, I am quite sure for the .0 release, if not it is not like the OP will die, but it annoys him, and as a designer, it annoys me as well.

Nothing major or the end of the day ;)
Click to expand...

I think when we over analyse something like this we have a tendency to highlight the negative and minimize the positive. Yes, in this case they missed the alignment by a few pixels, but how many other instances in the beta did they nail it perfectly? Lacking attention to detail is not something I personally would use to describe Apple's design team.
 
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Right right right, there are mich bigger design flaws in the current shape of iPadOS, one of the biggest ones being in the app window Switcher when you wanna bring up an app into split view and it has alreadyseveral instances opened. Why THIS app switcher that’ll show up won’t let you close an instance of the app, while the “show all windows” Switcher will Let you do so?
And don’t even get me started on the app updating process or the decision to move the “reply to mail” button to the bottom... sigh
 
Just going to leave this here:


design.jpg
 
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YaBe said:
That's PRODUCT design, not graphic design.
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Hmm...I don't see that distinction there. So that's an interpretation. As you know, Ken designed the keyboard. Is that graphic design or it a product? Hmm...
 
gwhizkids said:
Hmm...I don't see that distinction there. So that's an interpretation. As you know, Ken designed the keyboard. Is that graphic design or it a product? Hmm...
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A keyboard is a product.....

I guess explaining the concept In my mother tongue would be a lot easier...but hey..we can agree to disagree.

To me that misalignment is a sloppy work, does it work? Yes ...would it work any less if it was done right? Nope...

So design is as you suggest how it works, but that does not mean it needs to look bad while working :D.
 
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Phogro said:
It's not like it looks bad though it's just a misalignment that the majority of people won't notice. Should it be fixed? Absolutely. Does it need to be fixed right now? Definitely not.
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There we agree, it’s not urgent, but still sloppy, considering design tools have snap on features....
 
YaBe said:
There we agree, it’s not urgent, but still sloppy, considering design tools have snap on features....
Click to expand...

I can't agree that this is sloppy. It's one mistake in a beta build of a complex piece of software that for the most part is very well designed and consistent.

Sure snap features help designers get things aligned, but they can fail by snapping to the wrong point. It's also possible that a UI element could be inadvertently moved with an accidental click and not caught on an QA audit because it's only a few pixels off. Or, another way this can happen is that the elements are aligned in one orientation and not checked in the other.

If there were a lot of glaring issues with this kind of thing I'd agree that Apple's designers are getting sloppy, but I just don't see it with the evidence that I've seen so far.
 
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YaBe said:
Agreed, annoying, but as long as it is fixed on the retail version, I am ok with it being the least of their problem.

Remember Jobs going nuts on a gradient?

"So Vic, we have an urgent issue, one that I need addressed right away. I’ve already assigned someone from my team to help you, and I hope you can fix this tomorrow. I’ve been looking at the Google logo on the iPhone and I’m not happy with the icon. The second O in Google doesn’t have the right yellow gradient. It’s just wrong and I’m going to have Greg fix it tomorrow. Is that okay with you?" S. Jobs
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Very cool, thanks for sharing!

made me feel kind of nostalgic...
 
I personally don’t bother paying attention to those graphical misalignment unless it is obvious enough. I pay attention to poor functionality design. One of those is the home bar, which can cause chaos when using the iPhone in landscape mode. I still cannot understand why Apple wants to ROTATE the home bar based on device orientation.
Another one that is obvious in beta is when using Apple keyboard folio, I cannot use certain control, such as safari control when in slide view mode.
891A88ED-63B3-44F0-9DFC-8651995FD0D7.jpeg

There are countless of such instances which can bug the app, bug the keyboard or both. Nothing has changed in the past three betas.

I feel Apple is one of those companies that tend to break their own rules quite consistently. Not sure why.
Suckfest 9001 said:
sigh thats it guys i cant use ios 13 any more its just way too misaligned, i cant go on like this. see you all in the alternatives section
Click to expand...
Welcome to The world of Linux. :p
 
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