MP 6,1 Those still using the trashcan: Love it, Like it or Hate it.

[gnomeisland]

There is no guarantee for that length of support, or what "support" means.

Does "support" mean the Apple OSX 2024 will install on it? Will it be patched and updated?

What Apple has typically done, and what contractually they must do, are two different things.

(If Apple has made a statement about end-of-support support for the 6,1, please correct me.)

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support

Learn about your options for getting service and parts for Apple devices that are past their warranty period.

support.apple.com

There are actually laws but they change based on the country. No, there is no guarantee that Apple will support the hardware in the latest OS, and the 2013 Mac Pro is unique (I believe), for never having *any* hardware updates over the six years it was manufactured. However, Apple will not consider the computer obsolete until the end of 2024 and supply parts longer than that. If they stop supporting the hardware with patches and updates before the end of 2023 it would also be a first.

The 2009-2012 Mac Pro was only officially dropped in Catalina, seven years after it was last manufactured. Even then it works with minor tweaks. Given that the 2013 Mac Pro supports Metal 2 out-of-the-box, I don't see why it won't run the latest OS but be slowly excluded from headline features—as already happened with Side Car. Of course, if Apple switches completely to ARM, then all bets are off but that applies to most/all Intel Macs.

So if you choose to stick to an alarmist/cynical viewpoint, then that's your choice but the evidence doesn't support it.

 

[tsialex]

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support

Learn about your options for getting service and parts for Apple devices that are past their warranty period.

support.apple.com

There are actually laws but they change based on the country. No, there is no guarantee that Apple will support the hardware in the latest OS, and the 2013 Mac Pro is unique (I believe), for never having *any* hardware updates over the six years it was manufactured. However, Apple will not consider the computer obsolete until the end of 2024 and supply parts longer than that. If they stop supporting the hardware with patches and updates before the end of 2023 it would also be a first.

The 2009-2012 Mac Pro was only officially dropped in Catalina, seven years after it was last manufactured. Even then it works with minor tweaks. Given that the 2013 Mac Pro supports Metal 2 out-of-the-box, I don't see why it won't run the latest OS but be slowly excluded from headline features—as already happened with Side Car. Of course, if Apple switches completely to ARM, then all bets are off but that applies to most/all Intel Macs.

So if you choose to stick to an alarmist/cynical viewpoint, then that's your choice but the evidence doesn't support it.

Legal obligation to provide service and parts has nothing to do with support for new releases of macOS.

2007 Mac Pro last compatible macOS release was 10.7.5, just a little over 5 years after the release date, not the end of production. MacBook late-2008 is another example, released end of October 2008 and Mountain Lion didn't support it anymore back in June 2012.

 

[jjjoseph]

A lot of productions and edit houses still use trashcans for large edit project. Say a show, like reality tv, with tons and tons of editors, and tons of footage. I think they worked well for editorial, photography or graphic design. If they weren’t still so expensive I think they are great for that type of work.

**** BUT As for Color Grading, VFX, CG and anything with GPU rendering, they are a mess. Something with the thermals and the GPU setup made them absolutely collapse when at full load.

I was at a facility we went through 3 computers, all returned, after failing to render overnight or for long periods of time.

We eventually went back to a 5,1 with a CUBIX cuda expander.

That being said the new MacPros are rock solid!!! Those are dreams.

 

[AidenShaw]

So if you choose to stick to an alarmist/cynical viewpoint, then that's your choice but the evidence doesn't support it.

My comment is basically that anyone who is depending on MP6,1 support for the long term should have a "plan B".

 

[sigmadog]

I've never been thrilled with Apple's "New OS Every Year" philosophy. I usually stick with an OS for 2 to 3 years, then upgrade only if forced by software or hardware. Most of the new OS updates tend to circle around social media and consumer-oriented dumbed-down features, so I don't miss out on much, in my view, by sticking with an OS that works. As long as I can get my work done, I'm happy with the OS I have.

When the hardware becomes "unsupported", I usually have at least another 2-3 years on my existing OS before I need to think about upgrading.

With that in mind, 5 years of work out of a used 6,1 is definitely doable in my opinion.

 

[ixxx69]

I'm still using the 6,1 as my daily driver - purchased early 2014. 4-core/D300. Works great with dual 4K displays. I've done a bit of everything (except gaming) over the past 6 years - light video & audio production, graphic design, 3D modeling, but mostly office productivity & internet. Been a fantastic trouble-free machine.

A friend bought the same spec'd 6,1 at the same time as I did and his D300 died a few months ago. He did a moderate amount of light gaming and a ton of twitch. He replaced it with a 2018 mini with an eGPU and loves it. (I also bought a 2018 mini when they came out - I'm currently using it for light audio production).

While the 6,1 is still great machine, especially if you need a little more graphic oomph than an iGPU while keeping it in one box, the performance is starting to feel a tad slower than faster machines I use for work.

For speed, upgradeability (TB3), longevity, etc., the 2018 mini is the way to go IMO, and I'll likely get another one to replace my 6,1 when the time comes.

But as others have suggested, at the right price, the 6,1 can still be a great purchase.

 

[gnomeisland]

Legal obligation to provide service and parts has nothing to do with support for new releases of macOS.

2007 Mac Pro last compatible macOS release was 10.7.5, just a little over 5 years after the release date, not the end of production. MacBook late-2008 is another example, released end of October 2008 and Mountain Lion didn't support it anymore back in June 2012.

In both those cases you’re getting four years after the end of production though (so end of 2023 worst case scenario) and those cases you mentioned are exceptional. Not only statistically but also because both those machines lacked fundamentally hardware required for later core features of the OS. Aside from HVEC acceleration (which is already limiting the machine), I don’t see any of those limitations on the 2013 Mac Pro. Of course who knows what Intel exploits will discovered and whether/when Apple will start the transition to ARM processors.

I love the basic design of the 2013 Mac Pro. I don’t think it is now (or may be ever was) a good value. However, there is no evidence Apple will drop support as quickly as what’s being speculated here.

 

[saulinpa]

• while TB2 bandwidth is OK on paper, there are actually very few high-performance TB2 storage options (and most are no longer available new and rare on the second-hand market). In particular, I'd love a bus-powered TB2 enclosure for M2/PCIe SSDs but found none. And bus-powered TB3 disks do not work with the TB2/TB3 adapter

I haven't tried it but if you use the TB2/TB3 adapter to drive a simple powered TB3 dock you should be able to drive bus-powered TB3 enclosures. Expensive and kludgy but possible.

Also - I've got two MP6,1s and love the size compared to other Mac Pros and they meet most of my needs. No wish to get the behemoth 7,1 even if it were cheaper, used less power/generated less heat. My 5,1 was great for flexibility and upgrades but is now gathering dust (hard to part with).

 

[defjam]

I love the basic design of the 2013 Mac Pro. I don’t think it is now (or may be ever was) a good value. However, there is no evidence Apple will drop support as quickly as what’s being speculated here.

They're not speculating but rather pointing out anyone buying a 2013 Mac Pro with the reliance Apple it will support it for x number of years should not do so. The key word, which I highlighted, is reliance.

 

[fiatlux]

I haven't tried it but if you use the TB2/TB3 adapter to drive a simple powered TB3 dock you should be able to drive bus-powered TB3 enclosures. Expensive and kludgy but possible.

Expensive and kludgy indeed.

I actually found, in Europe, an M.2 Thunderbolt bus-powered enclosure that is still widely available new: the Transcend JetDrive 855. It comes with a proprietary Mac SSD inside (they sell the drive without the enclosure but not the empty enclosure), the drives are not the speediest, and you have to shop around to find it at a decent price.

These drives are meant as upgrades to Mac internal SSDs: you clone your boot disk to the external SSD, swap them and keep your old internal drive in the TB enclosure. Similar to OWC's Aura Pro X2 kits, but with TB enclosures rather than USB 3.0 ones.

Since my MP6,1 came with a relatively slow 512 GB SSD (around 600 MB/s r/w), I cloned it to a 480 GB JetDrive and swapped disks. My boot drive now reaches around 1300 MB/s r/w - not bad!

I'll put a 2TB Intel 660p M.2 SSD in the TB enclosure, just waiting for the M.2/Mac adapter to arrive.

Total cost: Jetdrive 855 480GB 170€, Intel 660p 2TB 170€, adapter 20€ --> 360€

 

[pierre1610]

i have a 2018 mini and a 2013 MP. The mini runs x2 better for all my tasks, (mainly heavy PS)
It does run very hot though.

 

[DPUser]

Late to this thread, but I note your (sigmadog's) sig has you owning a 6,1 12 core already. Did you already buy one?

 

[sigmadog]

Late to this thread, but I note your (sigmadog's) sig has you owning a 6,1 12 core already. Did you already buy one?

Yep. Pulled the trigger last week. It's all set up and running (silently!). Very happy having saved $600 in these uncertain times. I've moved the 5,1 to a seldom-used corner desk to run older software and my old scanner.

 

[Krevnik]

i have a 2018 mini and a 2013 MP. The mini runs x2 better for all my tasks, (mainly heavy PS)
It does run very hot though.

That it does. At least the fan is quieter than the MacBook Pro though.

Yep. Pulled the trigger last week. It's all set up and running (silently!). Very happy having saved $600 in these uncertain times. I've moved the 5,1 to a seldom-used corner desk to run older software and my old scanner.

Yeah, it is a weird time to be needing hardware, that's for sure. I sold stock to pay for my 7,1, but was lucky enough to sell it before the market tanked while I was waiting for delivery. ?

 

[sigmadog]

Yeah, it is a weird time to be needing hardware, that's for sure. I sold stock to pay for my 7,1, but was lucky enough to sell it before the market tanked while I was waiting for delivery. ?

My design business is essentially dead in the water at the moment. Not really sure if I'll be able to salvage it if this crisis lasts for very long. We'll see what the possibilities are once we reach the other side. Fortunately, I've got other sources of income.

Good luck to you!

 

[fuchsdh]

Yep. Pulled the trigger last week. It's all set up and running (silently!). Very happy having saved $600 in these uncertain times. I've moved the 5,1 to a seldom-used corner desk to run older software and my old scanner.

G

i have a 2018 mini and a 2013 MP. The mini runs x2 better for all my tasks, (mainly heavy PS)
It does run very hot though.

What's your mini's orientation? I've seen a lot of reports that rotating the thing 90º on a stand or similar helps with keeping it a bit cooler when running full-tilt, but I've never seen proper measurements done of that assertion.

 

[Krevnik]

My design business is essentially dead in the water at the moment. Not really sure if I'll be able to salvage it if this crisis lasts for very long. We'll see what the possibilities are once we reach the other side. Fortunately, I've got other sources of income.

Good luck to you!

To be fair, it sounds like you need the luck more than I do. Thankfully, software engineering has somewhat longer business rhythms, and the team I work with is still trying to hire folks. It will be a while before we have to tighten our belt too much.

But I am worried for family and friends, and there’s a lot of people out there that could definitely use some help and luck in the coming weeks and months.

 

[ridgero]

I actually want a redesigned iMac, but I don't think it will come so soon, so I did something unusual. I generally think it’s a very good time to buy a Mac Pro 2013 at the moment, there are alot (!!!) on eBay right now.

I sold my Mac mini 2018 for a good value (right before they did the small refresh). Instead I bought a Mac Pro 2013 (base model) and upgraded it to 12 cores + 64 GB - I paid a total of 1300 Euro.

I use Logic Pro alot. The Mac Pro does an excellent job, it’s completely silent, even under heavy load.

I did this for two reasons: I always wanted to buy a trashcan Mac Pro and I think the Mac Mini will have a greater loss of value.

 

[sigmadog]

I did this for two reasons: I always wanted to buy a trashcan Mac Pro and I think the Mac Mini will have a greater loss of value.

To be fair, the 2013 Mac Pro has already experienced a significant loss of value in terms of price (going by eBay prices) because of its age, so one can't really compare it to a brand new mini in that regard. I'm not saying the 2013 has no value - I bought one myself!

The 2013 still serves a purpose for many of us. The mini is a close second-place to the trashcan for my needs, and I could have gone that way and probably been satisfied. It's definitely faster in some respects, but that wasn't my main criteria.

 

[MarciaFunebre]

I have both, a Trashcan and a 2019 Mac Pro. The Trashcan is limited in it's capabilities (it was a design train wreck from the get go) because now you can't just upgrade it to TB3 and have PCI cards. So you can't just connect a super fast SSD easily, I think that will ultimately put the lid on it.