Thoughts about future of legacy-intel Macs versus future legacy SOC-Macs ...

[Certificate of Excellence]

Seems like there is a subset of customer demand who are looking for that ultraportable laptop vs tablet that is driving up prices. I prefer tactile, attached keyboards(laptops) to a touch screen or a bt kb ipad extension but that combo seems to be serving the majority of new sales customers.

It's definitely light and highly portable and modular in its nature. In Apples eyes, it seems that the touch screen is the natural evolution of trackpad in that niche and the kiddos want the TS. I guess Im a dinosaur in that I prefer the TP to TS.

 

[EugW]

Seems like there is a subset of customer demand who are looking for that ultraportable laptop vs tablet that is driving up prices. I prefer tactile, attached keyboards(laptops) to a touch screen or a bt kb ipad extension but that combo seems to be serving the majority of new sales customers.

It's definitely light and highly portable and modular in its nature. In Apples eyes, it seems that the touch screen is the natural evolution of trackpad in that niche and the kiddos want the TS. I guess Im a dinosaur in that I prefer the TP to TS.

I'm hanging onto my 12" MacBook 2017 16 GB for as long as possible. I hated the 11" MacBook Air, for several reasons.

That said, the Apple keyboards on the iPad Pros and iPads are not Bluetooth. They are physically and electrically connected via the Smart Connector. Thus, there are no Bluetooth connectivity issues and there is no battery to charge. Also, they have full sized keyboards, 18 mm or 19 mm key spacing. The 19 mm on the 12.9" iPad Pros is the size that Macs use, but ergonomic guidelines also consider 18 mm as "full size". I find 18 mm with my 10.5" Pro works great, whereas below 17 mm (some Logitech BT keyboards) it hurts my wrists.

 

[Amethyst1]

I hated the 11" MacBook Air, for several reasons.

That screen…

 

[MysticCow]

(Incidentally, it's nuts to see even 2010 11" Airs commanding prices of $400+ on the second-hand goods sites in my city.)

Intel Airs shouldn't be getting more than $200 on the market due to the fact they are underpowered pieces of garbage.

 

[Amethyst1]

Intel Airs shouldn't be getting more than $200 on the market due to the fact they are underpowered pieces of garbage.

So would you pay $200 for an underpowered piece of garbage? I certainly wouldn’t. More like… $2

(Just pulling your leg.)

 

[MysticCow]

So would you pay $200 for an underpowered piece of garbage? I certainly wouldn’t. More like… $2

(Just pulling your leg.)

I put them in the same category as the Core series of Macs. Those Core2Duos can still pull some amazing things sometimes, but they are just completely mauled by anything new on the market (M1, new Intels, and new AMD's).

There's no point for them to even be "new bargain basement PC" prices (the $300 mark), because those same bargain basement PC's would be more powerful. And I would take a Core2Duo Mac over any Intel Air.

 

[Amethyst1]

And I would take a Core2Duo Mac over any Intel Air.

How come? A 2011 or later MBA is faster than any Core 2 Duo Mac other than the 2006...2008 Mac Pro. And that's not even taking the awesomeness of Thunderbolt into account. Or are you just talking about the 2008...2010 MBAs? In that case I wholeheartedly agree with you - these are slow as heck.

There's no point for them to even be "new bargain basement PC" prices (the $300 mark), because those same bargain basement PC's would be more powerful.

A friend of mine regularly picks up "business-class" (Dell etc.) quad-core Haswell towers for like 50 bucks from eBay, puts in an SSD and gives them to family members and relatives. It's amazing how much bang for the buck you can get sometimes. On the other hand, these machines are turning eight years old this year, and for a computer, this is still an eternity.

 

[B S Magnet]

How come? A 2011 or later MBA is faster than any Core 2 Duo Mac other than the 2006...2008 Mac Pro. And that's not even taking the awesomeness of Thunderbolt into account. Or are you just talking about the 2008...2010 MBAs? In that case I wholeheartedly agree with you - these are slow as heck.


A friend of mine regularly picks up "business-class" (Dell etc.) quad-core Haswell towers for like 50 bucks from eBay, puts in an SSD and gives them to family members and relatives. It's amazing how much bang for the buck you can get sometimes. On the other hand, these machines are turning eight years old this year, and for a computer, this is still an eternity.

I mean, if anyone wants to send me their disused 13-inch early 2012 education edition MacBook Air, I’m pretty sure I could throw in a beefier SSD, tri-boot it with some Snow Leopard, High Sierra, and Linux Mint, and put it to good use to give to a local kid in need of a carry-everywhere for tinkering. 😇

I mean, heck, the Geekbench scores of that MBA blow the doors/lid/[pick-your-poison] off the 2008 17-inch Penryn C2D MacBook Pro I’m using to post this meaningful message.

On the other hand, these machines are turning eight years old this year, and for a computer, this is still an eternity.

I mean, eight years is a long time for tech, but given the plateauing of Moore’s law during the 2010s, the window of serviceable usability on older gear is, in stark contrast to the disposable design of their manufacturing (and hostility toward right-to-repair praxis), eight years now is tantamount to running, say, a 1997 computer as a daily driver in 2001.

 

[bobesch]

Intel Airs shouldn't be getting more than $200 on the market due to the fact they are underpowered pieces of garbage.

Oh, if you should find someone willing to give away his 11"MBP please let me know!
Well, not one of the ancient models, though I always liked the envelope ad.

How come? A 2011 or later MBA is faster than any Core 2 Duo Mac other than the 2006...2008 Mac Pro. And that's not even taking the awesomeness of Thunderbolt into account. Or are you just talking about the 2008...2010 MBAs? In that case I wholeheartedly agree with you - these are slow as heck.

Oh, later 11" MBA is a great travel companion and pretty fast. Plus Thunderbolt and USB3 😊.
Fat bezel is a pity - 12 "display would have been great.

 

[Amethyst1]

Oh, later 11" MBA is a great travel companion and pretty fast. Plus Thunderbolt and USB3 😊.

And a fast PCIe SSD in the 2013 and later models.

Fat bezel is a pity - 12 "display would have been great.

That's why the 12" MacBook was created. You gain a lovely display and a thinner bezel... but lose the great keyboard and Thunderbolt.

 

[bobesch]

...
That's why the 12" MacBook was created. You gain a lovely display and a thinner bezel... but lose the great keyboard and Thunderbolt.

Touché 🤣

 

[Amethyst1]

Touché 🤣

Pick your poison

 

[theMarble]

Those bezels... At least they're thinner than my Cinema Display's bezels. It would be cool if Apple did an Apple Silicon 11" MacBook Air, I'm sure it would sell well.

 

[bobesch]

I wonder how acceptance by / opinion of the aftermarket has influence on Apple's decission to further support older hardware?
Are people more willing to buy expensive new stuff, if there are good prices for reselling 2-3y old stuff to the aftermarket?
As @Certificate of Excellence already said, increase numbers of used machines plus satisfied second-hand buyers would also increase the number people using the eco-system, buy content and finally may even buy a new Mac.
Interest of 2nd hand buyers might drop, if a machine is limited to a then outdated macOS, that isn't supported anymore. Well, maybe with intel now developing SOC's too, there might be any future Windows supporting Apple silicon natively.
I fear Apples thoughts about sustainability and the aftermarket doesn't go beyond the first in line 2nd hand buyer.

For now I'm happy to stick with my bunch of 17" early2008 MBP, 15" mid2012 MBP9,1 and the 11"Air - all on Mojave to keep 32bit support - until fast Windows and OSX emulation/virtualization with 32bit support proofs to be working fine...

(BTW good time to look for a 2nd hand non-retina 15" i7 mid2012 MBP, since prices are dropping)

 

[Amethyst1]

It would be cool if Apple did an Apple Silicon 11" MacBook Air, I'm sure it would sell well.

Yeah, partly because it would be their cheapest laptop. That presumably was the reason the MacBook Air was dragged along after the 12” MacBook’s intro.

 

[theMarble]

Yeah, partly because it would be their cheapest laptop. That presumably was the reason the MacBook Air was dragged along after the 12” MacBook’s intro.

I heard something about a new 12" MacBook recently so it would being interesting how that plays out. I doubt they could use a non-butterfly keyboard with how thin it is.

 

[EugW]

I heard something about a new 12" MacBook recently so it would being interesting how that plays out. I doubt they could use a non-butterfly keyboard with how thin it is.

Then make it thicker. I love the 2 lb weight of my 12" 16 GB MacBook, but I would love it even more if was say 2.3 lbs but got this:

1) M2.
2) Better keyboard. My 2017 keyboard doesn't suck as much as the 2015 keyboard, but it's at best mediocre.
3) Better trackpad. The 12" MB's trackpad haz a noticeably weaker click than the MacBook Pros of the same era, even when configured to the strongest setting.
4) Two USB-C ports. Having just a single USB-C port is a major PITA.

It's sad that 9 years later, the keyboard and trackpad on my 2017 MacBook are nowhere near as good as the keyboard and trackpad on my 2008 MacBook. However, my 2008 MacBook is 4.5 lbs. Well actually 4.2 lbs now that I've removed the optical drive.

 

[Amethyst1]

4) Two USB-C ports. Having just a single USB-C port is a major PITA.

Make that two Thunderbolt ports, please.

It's sad that 9 years later, the keyboard and trackpad on my 2017 MacBook are nowhere near as good as the keyboard and trackpad on my 2008 MacBook.

Ultraportables have (nearly) always come with some compromise(s). However, my 1.9lb Sony Vaio Pro 11 is even lighter than the MB, yet its keyboard is substantially better.

 

[bobesch]

Make that two Thunderbolt ports, please.


Ultraportables have (nearly) always come with some compromise(s). However, my 1.9lb Sony Vaio Pro 11 is even lighter than the MB, yet its keyboard is substantially better.

With two USB3-ports, one Thunderbolt-port and a MagSave-connector, a late 11" MBA isn't that bad ... 🙃

 

[rampancy]

So would you pay $200 for an underpowered piece of garbage? I certainly wouldn’t. More like… $2

(Just pulling your leg.)

LOL. Man, Lysander (my 2010 11" MacBook Air) can't get any love here...

I just plain straight-up love the 11" Airs, even my plucky 2010 Air...which felt surprisingly fast and capable despite its severely anemic specs. And apart from a loose Bluetooth connection which got quickly repaired at an Apple Store, the hardware was rock-solid (which really impressed me, for a rev A machine). The 2013 11" Air, which I got later, was one of the best computers I've ever owned. It and my 2010 Air pretty much handled everything I could throw at it with aplomb, including even gaming over WINE (albeit with my expectations dialed down accordingly).

I still kinda regret not getting the last release of the 11" Air, even though my budget couldn't afford it.

 

[Amethyst1]

LOL. Man, Lysander (my 2010 11" MacBook Air) can't get any love here...

You do know I was only joking, right? I have a 2010 11” Air I bought new and it’s still going strong on its original battery. It’s my air-gapped distraction-free writing environment on Snow Leopard (when I’m not using it for whacky experiments that is). In other words, I freaking LOVE it.

 

[B S Magnet]

You do know I was only joking, right? I have a 2010 11” Air I bought new and it’s still going strong on its original battery. It’s my air-gapped distraction-free writing environment (when I’m not using it for whacky experiments that is).

You and your wacky experiments… 👨‍🔬⚗️ 💻… 💥 📺📺📺