Thoughts on OS X Mountain Lion??

[DeckMan]

My example would be: One single keyboard shortcut is the quickest and easiest way to place a copy of your file somewhere and directly continue working while the old file is automatically closed, since you usually don't need it anymore.

That's basically what you achieve with Duplicate, isn't it? Because you can totally set up a keyboard shortcut for that. Sure, in some cases it would be more convenient to "save as" or "save a copy", so adding more alternative ways of doing this would be helpful for sure. Though I don't think Apple will do that - to them, I speculate, the old way was Save As and the new way is Duplicate.

I work with complex documents in Numbers and I frequently have to try some "what if this or that" (similar to the creatives with image editing). Sure there are workarounds like clicking the top bar menu or duplicating the file in advance. But all of that isn't the way of simplifying or getting the computer out of the way. It's just the opposite. Too much sacrifice for a tiny bit of security.

In my view, that's exactly what Versions shines at. You can try out things, keep them if you like them and revert them if you don't. You can even keep a version with the changes in case you'll like them later. Or if you know in advance that you're not gonna keep them, again, you can duplicate - it can essentially be used as "don't save this", just with the annoyance of having an additional window floating around that you won't need.

 

[JohnDoe98]

No, and since I don't even live in America, why should my home address be required?

Forgive me but I don't understand this comment of yours. What does the country you live in have to do with it? Is it because there is no Apple store in your home country that you don't like Apple IDs?

Why should your address matter? There is a legal issue regarding the copyrights of the store content. Apple wants to make sure you are signing up for an Apple ID in the country you live in, otherwise they could get into legal trouble for distributing the content to you.

 

[OLDCODGER]

Every bank, utility, online service/retailer, and many retail stores, store the same amount of information as Apple does; I don't see what makes them special. I take it you never order anything online, and only ever use Cash? Also, for what it's worth, digital distribution tends to make things cheaper and greener. I applaud the transition away from more conventional means. I too care about privacy, but banking information, as Apple stores, doesn't worry me much. The stuff Google and Facebook pull, well that's more open for debate.

My bank, obviously has to have my details, as do utilities (though not my card No.) I don't use online services, and any retailer that wants my details doesn't get my business. Cash or B-Pay (utilities) is the way I do business.

The idea of taking Gaia into account is a non-issue.

 

[JohnDoe98]

My bank, obviously has to have my details, as do utilities (though not my card No.) I don't use online services, and any retailer that wants my details doesn't get my business. Cash or B-Pay (utilities) is the way I do business.

The idea of taking Gaia into account is a non-issue.

As I point out, Apple obviously needs some info, like your address, because of legal reasons. For example, Pandora is not allowed to stream content to Canadian users since they haven't paid the royalties within Canada (the canadian associations are demanding rates far too high). Asking you to give your address is a step to ensure you reside in the country whose's Apple store you desire to purchase from.

 

[OLDCODGER]

Actually, he only needs a name and address since the Apple store allows Gift cards that he can buy with cash. Oh, and Apple never verifies the addresses, nor do they ever send anything to it by mail, so it seems like an odd thing to complain about (especially since they don't share that info with anyone).

So why insist upon it being supplied?

 

[JohnDoe98]

So why insist upon it being supplied?

Read my last two comments.

 

[KnightWRX]

No, and since I don't even live in America, why should my home address be required?

Because that's how credit card companies authenticate purchases.

 

[notrack]

That's basically what you achieve with Duplicate, isn't it? Because you can totally set up a keyboard shortcut for that. Sure, in some cases it would be more convenient to "save as" or "save a copy", so adding more alternative ways of doing this would be helpful for sure. Though I don't think Apple will do that - to them, I speculate, the old way was Save As and the new way is Duplicate.



In my view, that's exactly what Versions shines at. You can try out things, keep them if you like them and revert them if you don't. You can even keep a version with the changes in case you'll like them later. Or if you know in advance that you're not gonna keep them, again, you can duplicate - it can essentially be used as "don't save this", just with the annoyance of having an additional window floating around that you won't need.

Yes, again, I don't doubt that all of that is possible and even more. Microsofties develop Office that way. But it's not the point for making progress on a mac. Save - yes or no. Enter or space bar. It can't get any simpler than that. As I said, autosave is welcome, but not with the cost of running through extra menus or star wars every time. For light users it may be a minor bump or even fun, but if you have to repeat that several times a day it's pretty anoying.

 

[OLDCODGER]

Forgive me but I don't understand this comment of yours. What does the country you live in have to do with it? Is it because there is no Apple store in your home country that you don't like Apple IDs?

Why should your address matter? There is a legal issue regarding the copyrights of the store content. Apple wants to make sure you are signing up for an Apple ID in the country you live in, otherwise they could get into legal trouble for distributing the content to you.

That is none of my concern. As for Apple stores, I only use resellers - less hassle.

Besides, I only mentioned ID because I didn't wish to go into the downsides of the whole download/install process, as well as the privacy issues. In sum, the app store is just not the kind of thing that I wish to be involved with.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes, again, I don't doubt that all of that is possible and even more. Microsofties develop Office that way. But it's not the point for making progress on a mac. Save - yes or no. Enter or space bar. It can't get any simpler than that. As I said, autosave is welcome, but not with the cost of running through extra menus or star wars every time. For light users it may be a minor bump or even fun, but if you have to repeat that several times a day it's pretty anoying.

There's no extra menus or Star wars all the time. If you click on Revert document, it asks you if you want to go back to your last manual save (a save point you created) and if that is the case, no need to go in the "Time Machine"-like UI.

I showed a screenshot of this on the last page.

And frankly, if you want to go back farther, well guess what, without Versions/Autosave it would not have been possible at all anyhow, so why are you complaining ?

 

[JohnDoe98]

That is none of my concern. As for Apple stores, I only use resellers - less hassle.

Your licensing agreement is your concern, sorry to say.

Besides, I only mentioned ID because I didn't wish to go into the downsides of the whole download/install process, as well as the privacy issues. In sum, the app store is just not the kind of thing that I wish to be involved with.

I don't know what privacy issues there are, nor do I know what downsides you speak of. If it is a matter of speed/bandwidth, that seems to be a problem with your ISP provider, not Apple. But given your privacy concerns, I suspect you may only use internet cafe's since all other ISPs require your address and payment info, which is exactly what Apple asks for and which bothers you so greatly.

 

[OLDCODGER]

As I point out, Apple obviously needs some info, like your address, because of legal reasons. For example, Pandora is not allowed to stream content to Canadian users since they haven't paid the royalties within Canada (the canadian associations are demanding rates far too high). Asking you to give your address is a step to ensure you reside in the country whose's Apple store you desire to purchase from.

To clarify, I do not purchase from Apple stores, but resellers. I have not, and will not purchase any app from the app store, so why must I have to sign up just to get a new OS (or rip-off USB stick) and not even get a copy of the DMG, which I can install at my leisure? Heck, even SL denies me that option, but at least I can get updates through MacUpdate. Will that continue? Not according to Apple's statement that ML is app store only.

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Because that's how credit card companies authenticate purchases.

Can I use a gift card to pay for and download ML without an ID?

 

[DeckMan]

Save - yes or no. Enter or space bar. It can't get any simpler than that. As I said, autosave is welcome, but not with the cost of running through extra menus or star wars every time.

Right. But in case you're stuck with Lion without liking it, there could be ways to adapt your workflow to be just as fast as before, depending on what you need to do. Like the problem with trying out different things can be solved without going through Star Wars, and even with keyboard shortcuts (if you set them up manually).

As for the human error of mixing up Don't Save and Save - I think the main concern is crashes and power outages. Though I really like that you can't lose your work by clicking the wrong button by accident with Lion's Autosave. Not that that ever happened to me, because I carefully read stuff before I click on buttons, but that can take time which could potentially be saved if there was no need to be so meticulous.

 

[JohnDoe98]

To clarify, I do not purchase from Apple stores, but resellers. I have not, and will not purchase any app from the app store, so why must I have to sign up just to get a new OS (or rip-off USB stick) and not even get a copy of the DMG, which I can install at my leisure?

Regarding the dmg, well there isn't a dmg anymore in their new structure, but there is a comparable installer embedded in the download, that you can readily extract and use to create copies of; you can also create your own usb installer stick. That hasn't changed in ML from Lion. So, strictly speaking, that is a non-issue.

Regarding having to sign up for an Apple ID to get the new OS. Well, Apple no longer wants to waste money packing, shipping, and burning disks to distribute their new OSs. They believe it is a waste of resources and environmentally unfriendly. Don't like their new policy? Fine, don't buy it. It strikes many of us as a sensible approach though.

Heck, even SL denies me that option, but at least I can get updates through MacUpdate. Will that continue? Not according to Apple's statement that ML is app store only.

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Smart way to crack down on piracy.

Can I use a gift card to pay for and download ML without an ID?

Nope, likely for licensing reasons as mentioned earlier. When you buy any software, the terms of agreement only apply to the country within which you buy it. So again, they need to make sure you have a country so that you are legally bound to the terms and conditions you agree to when you install the software. An Apple ID with a Gift card on it, but no address, would make you countryless, and therefore it wouldn't be possible to hold you legally accountable to the contract you agree to when you install the software.

 

[KnightWRX]

Can I use a gift card to pay for and download ML without an ID?

Sure, just get a throw away e-mail, lie about your street address while creating a throw away ID and insert your gift card funds into it.

 

[OLDCODGER]

Your licensing agreement is your concern, sorry to say.



I don't know what privacy issues there are, nor do I know what downsides you speak of. If it is a matter of speed/bandwidth, that seems to be a problem with your ISP provider, not Apple. But given your privacy concerns, I suspect you may only use internet cafe's since all other ISPs require your address and payment info, which is exactly what Apple asks for and which bothers you so greatly.

Of course my ISP needs to know where I am, but that is an ongoing service - not a once in a blue moon situation. Besides, direct bank debit solves the problem of credit card privacy.

If Apple had not insisted upon app store only distribution of future OSs, this would not be an issue.

I want to download a DMG, install and reboot when I please, and save said DMG for possible re-installation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[KnightWRX]

Of course my ISP needs to know where I am, but that is an ongoing service - not a once in a blue moon situation. Besides, direct bank debit solves the problem of credit card privacy.

If Apple had not insisted upon app store only distribution of future OSs, this would not be an issue.

I want to download a DMG, install and reboot when I please, and save said DMG for possible re-installation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Credit card privacy wha... ?

Apple knowing your credit card number (which you can remove and change at will in your profile) does not impact your privacy. Visa won't suddenly give them a list of your purchase history.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Sure, just get a throw away e-mail, lie about your street address while creating a throw away ID and insert your gift card funds into it.

What the hell? I once proposed something similar to you, and you were appalled. You didn't seem to appreciate someone recommending that you break the law, and made it clear you wouldn't do so. Yet here you seem to be abetting in a potential crime! Of course, your proposal works. I used to have Apple's HQ address for my US Apple ID. When I moved to the US, I was able to remove it

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I want to download a DMG, install and reboot when I please, and save said DMG for possible re-installation. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As I already said, this can easily be done (without DMGs), and is sanctioned by Apple themselves. So rather than complain, inform yourself better sir.

 

[OLDCODGER]

Regarding the dmg, well there isn't a dmg anymore in their new structure, but there is a comparable installer embedded in the download, that you can readily extract and use to create copies of; you can also create your own usb installer stick. That hasn't changed in ML from Lion. So, strictly speaking, that is a non-issue.

Regarding having to sign up for an Apple ID to get the new OS. Well, Apple no longer wants to waste money packing, shipping, and burning disks to distribute their new OSs. They believe it is a waste of resources and environmentally unfriendly. Don't like their new policy? Fine, don't buy it. It strikes many of us as a sensible approach though.



Smart way to crack down on piracy.



Nope, likely for licensing reasons as mentioned earlier. When you buy any software, the terms of agreement only apply to the country within which you buy it. So again, they need to make sure you have a country so that you are legally bound to the terms and conditions you agree to when you install the software. An Apple ID with a Gift card on it, but no address, would make you countryless, and therefore it wouldn't be possible to hold you legally accountable to the contract you agree to when you install the software.

Ok, if Apple is intent upon protecting licence agreements, that would be their right, and mine to not upgrade to future Apple HW, I guess.

As I said in my original post: all good things come to an end.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Ok, if Apple is intent upon protecting licence agreements, that would be their right, and mine to not upgrade to future Apple HW, I guess.

As I said in my original post: all good things come to an end.

Yep

 

[OLDCODGER]

As I already said, this can easily be done (without DMGs), and is sanctioned by Apple themselves. So rather than complain, inform yourself better sir.

Agreed - providing that I download from the app store.

 

[jpross123]

I don't think I am going to spend the money for "updates" for my Macbook. These are things that should have been in Lion already IMO (Lion just came out less than a year ago!). Plus I do not like the idea of merging iOS and Mac OS. If I want to use iOS I use my iPad, if I want to use Mac OS I pull out my MacBook.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Agreed - providing that I download from the app store.

Right, therein lies the rub. They really are pushing the Apple ID thing and iCloud aggressively. I don't doubt there will be more people like you frustrated going forward.

 

[KnightWRX]

What the hell? I once proposed something similar to you, and you were appalled. You didn't seem to appreciate someone recommending that you break the law, and made it clear you wouldn't do so. Yet here you seem to be abetting in a potential crime! Of course, your proposal works. I used to have Apple's HQ address for my US Apple ID. When I moved to the US, I was able to remove it

I wouldn't ever do it, but really, why would I care what laws you wish to break or not ? It's your life.

And I don't think I ever was appalled at such thing, either you misunderstood my post or are misremembering the poster in question.

 

[JohnDoe98]

I wouldn't ever do it, but really, why would I care what laws you wish to break or not ? It's your life.

And I don't think I ever was appalled at such thing, either you misunderstood my post or are misremembering the poster in question.

Perhaps my memory is faulty (either way, we need not resurrect the controversy of the abolishment of the family pack and its workarounds) .