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Thunderbolt 4 Hub for Mac Studio
- Thread starter Killerbob
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This is what I ended up with as well. I'm a heavy port user like you and I've had zero issues. The most annoying thing I came across was trying to connect three monitors to my Mac Studio and having other ports available for other things. For whatever reason my monitors would only work as 1 per computer port meaning I couldn't plug three into the Caldigit hub, but I made due with what I had.
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The CalDigit TB4 hub itself should support 2 monitors. For the third, you'll need to connect directly to the Mac Studio (or buy a second CalDigit hub).
I too purchased one of those hubs several months ago upon retiring the 2009 Mac Pro and putting a Studio into operation. Lots of legacy USB items are now online. Additionally, I purchased an OWC Thunderbolt-to-two-DisplayPort adaptor to run two monitors off of one Thunderbolt port. The third monitor is connected to the Studio's HDMI port.
You sound like a Mac Pro candidate. It would be cool if they put in a lot more TB4 ports which they should be theoretically be able to do given that it's 4 x Max.
Would you guys and gals choose a Caldigit TS3+ over a TB4 Element Hub if they were the same price? The TS3+ in Canada vs the imported TB4 are within $20 of each other.
Mind you, I could end up just getting an OWC/Plugable hub since I don't need that many ports. This would be for an M2 Mac mini though, which may not even get Thunderbolt 4. I'm thinking it would get TB3.hose
BTW,
For those of you plugging in a keyboard and mouse into the hub, wake from sleep works fine, right?
Mind you, I could end up just getting an OWC/Plugable hub since I don't need that many ports. This would be for an M2 Mac mini though, which may not even get Thunderbolt 4. I'm thinking it would get TB3.hose
BTW,
For those of you plugging in a keyboard and mouse into the hub, wake from sleep works fine, right?
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I think it depends entirely on what you want to connect to it & how - the TS3+ hub offers a host of different connectors which will either be invaluable to you or irrelevant. To me, the TS3+ looks better if you've got a bunch of existing peripherals that use USB3.0 or lower, DisplayPort 1.2 etc. while the Elements hub is more "modern" and potentially faster if you mainly want to connect newer Thunderbolt and USB 3.1g2 devices. Note that even the USB A ports on the Elements hub support 10Gbps.
Also depends if you're triggered by having ports that you'll never use and/or duplicate things like Ethernet and SD card slots.
Also the TB4 Element is "newer tech" - the TS3+ has been superseded by the TS4, which is probably why you're getting a good deal on the TS3+.
AFAIK the only practical difference between TB4 ports and the "TB3/USB4" ports on the Mac Mini is that the latter only support a single display between them (plus one via HDMI) whereas the TB4 standard requires a minimum of two - Thunderbolt 4 these days being mostly just a slightly stricter version of USB4 with higher minimum requirements.
There's no sign that the M2 supports more than one display via TB, so unless Apple do something clever with display switching, a M2 Mini will probably still only have the same pair of TB3/USB4 ports.
I have the Caldigit Elements Hub and mouse/keyboard works just fine plugged into one of the Element's USB ports.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the DisplayPort 1.2 vs 1.4 thing. That's a good point. I wouldn't use it right now, but in the future I might.
Strangely enough, the TS3+ pricing I was talking about is direct from Apple. It's CA$349.99 regular price, which is ~US$260.
The Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub (US$250) and TS4 ($400) aren't sold in Canada, so I'd have to import them from the US.
Mind you, the Plugable USB4 hub is only CA$259 at Amazon Canada, which is only ~US$193. That might be the better option for me since it supports TB4, it doesn't have a whole bunch of extra ports I don't need, and (excluding the upstream TB4 port) it provides three TB4 ports and one 10 Gbps USB 3.2 Gen 2 port. It also includes a free USB-C to HDMI 2.0 dongle. It says it uses the Goshen Ridge Chipset.
The Plugable one appears to be exactly the same as the OWC Thunderbolt 4 hub, but that one is a bit more expensive and doesn't include the HDMI dongle. Also, multiple people online have complained that the upstream TB3 port on the OWC hub doesn't hold the plug very well. The cable gets loose when bumped.
BTW, I wonder how well these USB4/TB4 hubs would work with my non-Thunderbolt 2017 MacBook. One of the issues people have had with the MacBook is that to get both 4K 60 Hz video and USB out of its single USB-C port, they're stuck with USB 2.0 speeds. However, my current monitor is only a 2560x1440 30" Cinema Display via dual-link DVI.
The other TB4 thing that catches my eye is the mandatory wake from sleep support from wired peripherals like mice and keyboards. That's one thing that's annoyed me with a whole bunch of USB-A and USB-C hubs I've tried. Many don't support it (but some do). However, I'm guessing it's not an issue with the TS3+ because I haven't seen any complaints about that with the TS3+.
Thanks. I assumed it would since that is TB4. My concern was more with the TS3+, since it's TB3. However, I haven't seen complaints about this function for the TS3+ either so it's probably fine.
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Connect a Thunderbolt 3 to Dual DisplayPort 1.4 adapter to the TS3+ to get DP 1.4 back (but you'll use up the only downstream Thunderbolt port of the TS3+ which means no 2750MB/s Thunderbolt SSD, and USB SSD will be limited to 750 MB/s from the ASM1142 10Gbps port instead of 1000 MB/s from the downstream Thunderbolt port).
The CalDigit Element Hub has a four port 10Gbps USB hub to get the 4 USB-A ports. You could connect a four port 10Gbps USB hub to the Plugable or OWC TB4 hub.
Do any Thunderbolt 4 devices not use Goshen Ridge?
As far as I know, All DisplayPort or USB-C to Dual-Link DVI adapters use a converter chip that requires 4 lanes of DisplayPort (at HBR link rate) to achieve > 165 MHz pixel clocks required for 2560x1600@60Hz or 4K30. The USB-C capable Thunderbolt 3/4 hubs/docks will probably connect to the MacBook using only 2 lanes of DisplayPort since the other 2 lanes will be used for transmit/receive of USB 3.x. In that case, you need a DisplayPort MST hub to convert 2 lanes of HBR2 or HBR3 to 4 lanes of HBR. The CalDigit SOHO has an MST hub that should be able to do that.
Recently I found that all DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hubs with DSC (that I know about) can't actually use DSC to decompress 10bpc which means 4K60 from the 2 lane CalDigit SOHO can only be 8bpc which doesn't allow HDR. HDR would be limited to lower resolutions or refresh rates that won't use DSC. Maybe if the display supports DSC, then the DSC signal will be passed through and the display can have 4K60 10bpc/HDR then...
Hmm I should try that, because obviously there's other things I'd rather have connected directly to the Studio.
This is what Club3D had to say about using their Thunderbolt 4 hub with their USB-C to DL-DVI adapter, with a non-Thunderbolt host.
Club3D said:
FWIW, my 2017 12" MacBook is non-Thunderbolt, and it supports DisplayPort 1.2.
CSV-1580 Club 3D Thunderbolt 4 Portable 5-in-1 Hub with Smart Power
CAC-1510 Club 3D USB-C to DL-DVI HDCP-off
You can't trust technical support people to be technical. Did they test with a dual-link DVI display, either 2560x1440@60Hz or 2560x1600@60Hz or 3840x2160 30Hz?
That info will be worth something when you report the results of testing it with a Thunderbolt 4 hub/dock and CAC-1510. The hub/dock will probably connect with USB 3.x + 2 lanes of DisplayPort which would allow only single-link DVI from the CAC-1510. Use AllRez to get DisplayPort info of attached DisplayPort devices (for Intel Macs).
You are correct sir.
I didn't buy the Club-3D Thunderbolt 4 5-in-1 hub. I bought the identical Plugable Thunderbolt 4 5-in-1 hub which is currently on Black Friday sale for US$135.20 at Amazon.com or CA$207 at Amazon.ca. It comes with a free 4K USB-C -> HDMI 2.0 dongle in the box.
With a CableCreations HDCP-on USB-C -> DL-DVI dongle directly connected to my USB-C (non-Thunderbolt) MacBook, I get full 2560x1600 resolution with the 30" ACD. However, if I connect it through the Plugable hub, as expected, it gets detected only as a 1280x800 monitor.
Through the hub, I also tried using a USB-C -> DisplayPort dongle and then Apple's mini-DP to DL-DVI adapter, and again, it gets detected only as a 1280x800 monitor. This works fine at 2560x1600 if directly connected to the MacBook without a hub.
Not a big deal though, as I didn't buy this Thunderbolt hub to use with my non-Thunderbolt MacBook. I've just ordered a used M1 Mac mini so it should work with that. One USB-C port for the monitor, and one USB-C port for the Plugable hub.
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When using a USB-C dock that's limited to 2 lanes of DisplayPort input and output, you can connect a DisplayPort MST hub to convert the two lanes of HBR2 or HBR3 to four lanes. For a Dual Link DVI adapter, you will then get the four lanes of HBR suitable for dual link DVI modes 2560x1600 60Hz or 4K30.
Some USB-C docks have a built in MST Hub, such as the CalDigit SOHO. While it has only two lanes of DisplayPort HBR3 input, it can output 4 lanes (full bandwidth for HBR but only 75% for HBR2).
With the above Plugable TB4 hub I was having intermittent issues with one of my USB-C SSDs losing the connection on sleep, and very recently I noticed my Huawei MateView 28 monitor occasionally briefly losing the connection. I was afraid it might be the hub slowly dying.
It turns out it may be the TB4 cable Plugable supplied. A week ago I swapped out the Plugable cable with a Spigen Intel-certified cable and all those problems went away. I’ll continue to test it out and see how it goes. If it continues to work well over the next several weeks, I’ll ask for a new cable from Plugable under warranty.
It turns out it may be the TB4 cable Plugable supplied. A week ago I swapped out the Plugable cable with a Spigen Intel-certified cable and all those problems went away. I’ll continue to test it out and see how it goes. If it continues to work well over the next several weeks, I’ll ask for a new cable from Plugable under warranty.
I have been doing research on hubs/docks for my new MS. While I am trying to get one without external power, I feel my best candidate would be CalDigit TS4. I don't really need ethernet or CF reader, but the advantage I see is the DP 1.4 if I ever wanted to get high refresh rate (>=144 Hz) monitor down the road, and good number of ports for TB4 and USB 3.2 gen2. I hate the price though. Also I think it'll provide cleaner desk setup since mostly everything will go on the back.
My second and third option are CalDigit Element hub, and OWC eventhough no HDMI or DP available.
@EugW I read those with CalDigits TS4 also experience similar issue where their external SSD enclosure got disconnected when the host Mac sleeps. The only workaround is disable the sleep.
My second and third option are CalDigit Element hub, and OWC eventhough no HDMI or DP available.
@EugW I read those with CalDigits TS4 also experience similar issue where their external SSD enclosure got disconnected when the host Mac sleeps. The only workaround is disable the sleep.
I occasionally had the same external USB-C SSD* sleep problem with the Plugable 5-in-1 TB4 hub, but that issue went away when I replaced the original Thunderbolt cable that the hub came with. Actually, the only reason I replaced the cable was because I later started to have random USB-C monitor* disconnects too, but when I replaced the cable, it corrected both the monitor disconnects and the SSD sleep disconnects.
I asked Plugable for a new cable under warranty, but did mention that rarely when I bumped the hub it might disconnect even with the new cable. Interestingly, instead of sending me just a new cable, they actually sent me a completely new hub with all the included accessories. So now I have two TB4 hubs.
Perhaps they figured the TB port or AC plug might be loose or something.*Note though that besides the hubs themselves and the Macs, none of my peripherals are actually Thunderbolt. They are non-TB USB-C.
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If it had HDMI or DP then it would have fewer downstream Thunderbolt ports.
You can get HDMI or DP using a USB-C adapter.
With a separate adapter, you are not stuck with the HDMI converter they decide to use - you can upgrade just the adapter when better HDMI converters become available. Do they have an HDMI converter that supports VRR yet? Something based on the PS196? Maybe like this:
https://www.hoyunwholesale.com/products/cruxtec-usb-c-to-hdmi-2-1-cable-support-hdr-8k-60hz-4k-120hz
?
@joevt Ah good thoughts. I am aware getting the expected external monitor's resolution and refresh rate for M chips users have been a challenge. For some, it's either the combination of getting the cable adapter, or using a dock.
YTers' Pete Matheson has good content where he connects his MS with LG Ultragear 45" and Samsung G9. With LG, he simply uses USB-C adapter to DP cable adapter and manage to get full 240Hz refresh rate. But with Samsung, he has to use CalDigits dock to get full refresh rate.
Either way, thanks for the inputs.
YTers' Pete Matheson has good content where he connects his MS with LG Ultragear 45" and Samsung G9. With LG, he simply uses USB-C adapter to DP cable adapter and manage to get full 240Hz refresh rate. But with Samsung, he has to use CalDigits dock to get full refresh rate.
Either way, thanks for the inputs.