Thunderbolt eGPU Possibilities for Early Intel Macs?

[TheShortTimer]

I understand that an i5 Mac doesn't really fall within the category of Early Intel machines but please forgive me for this transgression because in all candour, this post would probably be met with negative responses elsewhere on this site...

Following on from the discussion here regarding Thunderbolt, @Amethyst1's epic thread on modding early pre-Thunderbolt Intel Macs to use eGPUs and this Macworld article about using eGPUs with Thunderbolt 1 & 2 equipped Apple laptops, I got thinking about the possibilities that an eGPU could afford to my 2011 i5 11" MacBook Air: which has a Thunderbolt port.

As we all know, the MacBook Air is limited in its expansion capabilities - the only internal component that can be (easily!) upgraded is its SSD. In the case of 2011 i5 11" MBA, its Intel HD Graphics 3000 HD GPU is inferior to that of the 2010 MBA's Nvidia GeForce 320M. I'm curious from an experimental and semi-serious angle as to the potential for pushing the machine beyond its design remit.

To elaborate, with a Thunderbolt eGPU, 4K playback would be possible, as would games and software that require a more powerful GPU but what about the impact upon MacOS itself? Am I correct in assuming that Metal would be available with a supported GPU and better performance would be attainable under not only supported MacOS versions but also the more recent unsupported ones?

If I could obtain a case and a suitable GPU at a fairly reasonable price, this is something that I would be tempted in exploring for the curiosity and fun aspect alone. I'd be interested in your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Amethyst1]

If I could obtain a case and a suitable GPU at a fairly reasonable price,

Since I do have these two (attached to my main Thunderbolt 2 Mac — its wimpy Intel iGPU cannot drive my ultra-high-resolution monitors ) I can try that.

It’s been done before.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Since I do have these two (attached to my main Thunderbolt 2 Mac — its wimpy Intel iGPU cannot drive my ultra-high-resolution monitors ) I can try that.

You've got a MBA 2011 that you can test with this?

It’s been done before.

Thanks for that. I've bookmarked the link. I like how short the section is for MacOS and the description that "it just works!"

 

[Amethyst1]

You've got a MBA 2011 that you can test with this?

Not anymore — but a 2011 13” MBP with the same iGPU. So any eGPU-related discoveries should equally apply to the 2011 MBA.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Great stuff: I look forward to your observations.

Thanks.

 

[Amethyst1]

I've bookmarked the link.

eGPU.io is “the” eGPU resource. You can search for very specific setups — and there’s even one using a 2011 11” MBA!

I’m using an AKiTiO Thunder2 case too, just like that build.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Forgot to say that site is “the” eGPU resource. You can search for very specific setups

Thanks, I'll be spending some time browsing the threads. If I do take the plunge, I'll post my experiences and the outcome on here though so that hopefully the community can benefit from them. The enclosures are certainly on the pricey side but that would be offset by considering the long term dividends that they offer.

— and there’s even one using a 2011 11” MBA!

That's really exciting! It means the basic premise of my hypothesis is possible. I'm now curious as to the performance gains and options that could be had with unsupported versions of macOS.

I’m using an AKiTiO Thunder2 case too BTW

From the brief research I've carried out, the Thunder2 is not officially recommended as a eGPU case - hence posters confirming that it's actually up to the task provided that the PSU isn't strained or you just upgrade it to a more powerful one, which is such an obviously logical solution.

Is a Thunderbolt 3 eGPU case worth buying if they turn up at a decent price? It would require a Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter, right?

 

[Amethyst1]

From the brief research I've carried out, the Thunder2 is not officially recommended as a eGPU case - hence posters confirming that it's actually up to the task provided that the PSU isn't strained or you just upgrade it to a more powerful one, which is such an obviously logical solution.

I run my Thunder2 off a 12V 80W barrel-plug power brick and it handles an AMD Radeon RX 460 driving a Dell UP2715K and a Huawei MateView just fine for non-gaming. No crashes or anything. Rock-solid. But it may be cutting it close since the 460 is rated at 75W… Maybe I should hammer it with some games.

Is a Thunderbolt 3 eGPU case worth buying if they turn up at a decent price? It would require a Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter, right?

If the price is right, why not? Yep, you’d need a bidirectional TB3 <-> TB1/2 adapter, such as Apple’s. Additionally, early TB3 enclosures using a TI82 chip are blacklisted in macOS but the patch for TB1/2 eGPUs appears to take care of this too. (I have no experience with TB3 though.)

With regards to price, I got my Thunder2 for 100 or 110 bucks (don't quite remember). That included a massive Dell DA-2 220W power brick but — as usual — no Thunderbolt cable.

 

[Amethyst1]

and there’s even one using a 2011 11” MBA!

Well, I should have looked at the screenshots — it’s a 2014 11” MBA LOL. That shouldn’t really matter though.

 

[TheShortTimer]

With regards to price, I got my Thunder2 for 100 or 110 bucks (don't quite remember). That included a massive Dell DA-2 220W power brick but — as usual — no Thunderbolt cable.

This underscores what a bargain I found in the i5 2011 11" MBA that I purchased for £40 GBP because the seller included a Thunderbolt cable with the machine.

Well, I should have looked at the screenshots — it’s a 2014 11” MBA LOL. That shouldn’t really matter though.

I was confused by that too because the OP consistently described the MBA as a 2011 model and you're right - it shouldn't matter one bit - if you pardon the pun.

 

[TheShortTimer]

If the price is right, why not? Yep, you’d need a bidirectional TB3 <-> TB1/2 adapter, such as Apple’s. Additionally, early TB3 enclosures using a TI82 chip are blacklisted in macOS but the patch for TB1/2 eGPUs appears to take care of this too. (I have no experience with TB3 though.)

With regards to price, I got my Thunder2 for 100 or 110 bucks (don't quite remember). That included a massive Dell DA-2 220W power brick but — as usual — no Thunderbolt cable.

Update: for the past few days I'd been watching this listing on eBay for a Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 550 and I waited till the last moment and swooped in with 8 seconds remaining and won it for £97 GBP.

Now, I'm committed!

What do you think - worth the money?

 

[Amethyst1]

Update: for the past few days I'd been watching this listing on eBay for a Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 550 and I waited till the last moment and swooped in with 8 seconds remaining and won it for £97 GBP.

Now, I'm committed!

What do you think - worth the money?

Wow!!! Congrats Definitely — now you’ll just need the TB2-TB3 adapter.

Since TB3 support was added in Sierra, you can test if the enclosure is recognised and works in earlier versions too, which is something I’m curious about.

As for the GPU — which one(s) are you planning to throw in that baby?

I’ve actually purchased a second AKiTiO Thunder2 today — for some eGPU experiments with e.g. my 2011 MBP, but eventually to add a NVMe PCIe SSD as a super-fast boot drive to my main Mac.

(I’m aware of the irony of having two Thunderbolt boxes permanently hanging off an iMac — so much for an “all-in-one” system LOL!)

 

[TheShortTimer]

Wow!!! Congrats Definitely — now you’ll just need the TB2-TB3 adapter.

That's next on my shopping list.

Since TB3 support was added in Sierra, you can test if the enclosure is recognised and works in earlier versions too, which is something I’m curious about.

Deal.

As for the GPU — which one(s) are you planning to throw in that baby?

For now, it will be this one as I have it on hand:

Nvidia GeForce GT630

I can always upgrade to something with a higher spec later on but it demolishes the GPUs in my Thunderbolt MBA and MBPs hands down! On reflection, the enclosure is going to be such a worthwhile purchase.

I’ve actually purchased a second AKiTiO Thunder2 today — for some eGPU experiments with e.g. my 2011 MBP, but eventually to add a NVMe PCIe SSD as a super-fast boot drive to my main Mac.

The latter scenario is particularly fascinating! Please share your experiences with both experiments when you go ahead with them.

(I’m aware of the irony of having two Thunderbolt boxes permanently hanging off an iMac — so much for an “all-in-one” system LOL!)

In these quarters of MacRumors, we live according to our own rules.

 

[Amethyst1]

For now, it will be this one as I have it on hand:

This is a "Fermi" card (a rebranded 400/500 series: 810 MHz core clock is a giveaway), which is supported up to High Sierra. It doesn't support Metal.

If you want a cheap "Kepler" (DisplayPort 1.2, 4K at 60 Hz, Metal support, supported up to Big Sur) this one would be my recommendation. I put one in a friend’s Mac Pro 4,1 and it ran Mojave like a champ. Here's a "Kepler" for less than 10 bucks.

 

[TheShortTimer]

This is a "Fermi" card (a rebranded 400/500 series: 810 MHz core clock is a giveaway), which is supported up to High Sierra. It doesn't support Metal.

Noted.

If you want a cheap "Kepler" (DisplayPort 1.2, 4K at 60 Hz, Metal support, supported up to Big Sur) this one would be my recommendation. I put one in a friend’s Mac Pro 4,1 and it ran Mojave like a champ.

Ok, I might grab that! 1GB VRAM does feel too low though. I could mess around with it to run Big Sur - if that works on 2GB - till I find a more powerful bargain. If you have recommendations for alternatives with more VRAM, please share.

Could I install both the "Fermi" card and the cheapo "Kepler" in the enclosure and switch between them as and when required?

Here's a "Kepler" for less than 10 bucks.

Thanks but given my reservations about 1GB, I'll pass on that card as it only has 512MB and the K600 isn't that much more expensive.

 

[Amethyst1]

If you have recommendations for alternatives with more VRAM, please share.

Here (not my auction!!!) is a NVIDIA NVS 510 for 25 bucks shipped. It's the exact same GPU as the Quadro K600 but clocked slightly lower, with twice the VRAM and the "correct" output configuration (Kepler GPUs can run four displays and DisplayPort is the only way to get 4K at 60 Hz out of them, so four DPs is what all cards should have shipped with IMO. But no, most of them have just one DP, lower-end ones have none. WTF?) I'm also using one of these. It's small, low-power, quiet and supported from Mavericks (tested) to Big Sur. GK107 is the least powerful Kepler GPU though, so it's not a gaming card by any means.

Eventually, the questions are what you're planning to do with the eGPU setup and how much you're ready to spend on a GPU.

I'm a friend of affordable low- to mid-range cards which don't require lots of power or a noisy cooling solution because I'm not into gaming on my Macs. (I have an Xbox One and a to-be-completed PC build a GeForce GTX 660 Ti is going into for that.) GPUs are also crazily expensive: I paid 50 bucks for my 660 Ti which is quite a bit given how old that thing is. My Radeon RX 460 was 75 bucks (and it's a rare version with three DisplayPorts rather than just one like most other 460s so I snagged it — because I need three!) but I see them regularly going for (quite a bit) more than that. Any reasonably powerful GPU is well within the three-digit range it seems.

I've used a GTX 660 (2 GB; avoid due to a memory leak in OS X's drivers!), a GTX 660 Ti (2 GB), a NVS 510 (2 GB) and a RX 460 (4 GB). I'd suggest checking out dortania's guide to supported AMD and NVIDIA GPUs and sticking to those natively supported in the version(s) of OS X/macOS you want to run, without messing with hacks or external drivers (such as Nvidia's web drivers which only work up to High Sierra).

Could I install both the "Fermi" card and the cheapo "Kepler" in the enclosure and switch between them as and when required?

Your enclosure has only one PCIe slot, so no. You'll have to physically swap cards or use a PCIe single-to-multi-slot riser/adapter. Two- or three-slot enclosures exist but are usually eye-wateringly expensive.

The latter scenario is particularly fascinating! Please share your experiences with both experiments when you go ahead with them.

Will do I've ordered a 500 GB Samsung 970 EVO and a M.2-to-PCIe adapter (not my auction!!!). It's not the latest or fastest NVMe SSD out there but still considered very good and even Thunderbolt 3 bottlenecks very fast NVMe's anyway, let alone Thunderbolt 2. It's a bit of a shame third-party NVMe SSDs only work in High Sierra and up — for earlier versions of OS X, AHCI PCIe SSDs are the way to go but these are (1) hard to come by because they've been superseded by NVMe SSDs, (2) slower due to being older (they're still blazingly fast compared to a SATA SSD though!) and (3) can get expensive because some people are specifically looking for those to use in Macs (even though you can upgrade Macs with NVMe SSDs).

In these quarters of MacRumors, we live according to our own rules.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[TheShortTimer]

There were just a couple of things on my shopping list that I needed to tick off and that's now been completed.

Thanks to make-an-offer, I've purchased the NVS 510 for £21 GBP - postage included from this seller and I found an Apple branded Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter for sale directly by Amazon UK for almost £18 GBP.

Looks like I'm all set! Thanks for the pointers and buying advice.

 

[Amethyst1]

Thanks to make-an-offer, I've purchased the NVS 510 for £21 GBP - postage included from this seller

Great! I could say that one shouldn't have to pay £21 for a nine-year-old low-end GPU. £5 to £10 would be more like it but that's today's insane GPU pricing I guess. Another point I forgot to mention in my previous post: I would be a little wary about buying used high(er)-end GPUs since for all you know they might have been hammered to (a soon) death in a mining rig...

My 970 EVO arrived today; no sign of the Thunder2 or adapter yet. Now the question is... who will have all the parts first?

 

[TheShortTimer]

Now the question is... who will have all the parts first?

We appear to be almost neck and neck.

The GPU arrived today.

As did the enclosure - and in its original box too!

Might as well start assembling everything.

All I need now is the Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter and I'm all set for some fun.

 

[TheShortTimer]

All I need now is the Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter and I'm all set for some fun.

Everything has arrived.

Which OS do you think is best suited for this set up, Catalina?

 

[Amethyst1]

Which OS do you think is best suited for this set up, Catalina?

High Sierra or Mojave if you’re using kryptonite. I don’t know if it’s compatible with an unsupported macOS installation though (the documentation seems to imply no). purge-wrangler (older) should be since it simply patches some kexts. Catalina is mentioned to have issues with DisplayPort on Kepler cards (great for the NVS 510…) — not sure if a passive adapter to DVI or HDMI is enough to circumvent these.

As for my setup — she's alive

 

[TheShortTimer]

Fast work!

Have you tried 4K video yet or games that require a GPU beyond the HD 3000? (It appears that your 2011 13" MBP has VRAM then mine - interesting...)

 

[Amethyst1]

Fast work!

It was just a matter of assembling things (in a quick-and-dirty way: screwing the card's PCIe slot bracket to the case causes the PCB to be visibly bent so, for now, I'll deprive any cards I put in there of their brackets) and setting up kryptonite. It's worth mentioning I have to boot High Sierra with the GPU disconnected and plug it in at the login screen; otherwise booting takes ages and the GPU isn't recognised.

Have you tried 4K video yet or games that require a GPU beyond the HD 3000?

I'm (re-)downloading Nexuiz as I write this. I have run one of its built-in benchmarks on the HD 3000 some time ago and am going to compare the results to the NVS 510 (not that I'm expecting a huge improvement! )

(It appears that your 2011 13" MBP has VRAM then mine - interesting...)

The amount of VRAM depends on how much RAM you have.

 

[Amethyst1]

NOTE: I plan to add more benchmark results to this post as I acquire them, so please don't quote this post if possible.

2011 13" MacBook Pro - i5-2415M - macOS v10.13.6 17G66
------------------------------------------------------

Nexuiz 2.5.2 'timedemo demos/demo1.dem' (OpenGL)
1280×720 fullscreen: One-second FPS (min / avg / max)

+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| Preset        |     HD 3000   |     NVS 510   |  GTX 660 Ti   | Radeon RX 460 |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| Low           | 51 / 90 / 183 | 11 / 23 / 84  | 12 / 26 / 94  | 38 / 64 / 166 |
| Medium        | 29 / 56 / 128 |  8 / 19 / 73  |  8 / 20 / 79  | 21 / 47 / 133 |
| Normal        | 27 / 52 / 100 |  6 / 16 / 68  |  7 / 18 / 77  | 20 / 46 / 130 |
| High          | 19 / 31 /  46 |  5 / 14 / 57  |  6 / 17 / 70  | 19 / 40 / 113 |
| Ultra         |  9 / 21 /  43 |  5 / 11 / 57  |  5 / 14 / 69  | 17 / 33 / 114 |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+

Unigine Heaven Benchmark 4.0 Basic (OpenGL)
1280×720 windowed NoAA Medium

+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| Metric        |     HD 3000   |     NVS 510   |  GTX 660 Ti   | Radeon RX 460 |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| FPS           |         7.8   |  19.7 (14.3)  |  65.2 (30.4)  |  59.1 (29.4)  | 
| Score         |         195   |   496  (360)  |  1643  (766)  |  1487  (740)  |
| Minimum FPS   |         4.4   |   7.5 (10.8)  |   8.9 (21.2)  |   9.5 (13.3)  |
| Maximum FPS   |        14.8   |  33.5 (20.6)  | 127.3 (52.3)  | 104.6 (49.6)  |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+

Note: Values in parentheses are for benchmark
run on eGPU but displayed on internal display.

Unigine Valley Benchmark 1.0 Basic (OpenGL)
1280×720 windowed NoAA Medium

+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| Metric        |     HD 3000   |     NVS 510   |  GTX 660 Ti   | Radeon RX 460 |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| FPS           |         6.4   |  19.4 (13.5)  |  43.6 (31.9)  |  41.5 (26.5)  |
| Score         |         269   |   813  (564)  |  1824 (1336)  |  1735 (1110)  |
| Minimum FPS   |         4.7   |  12.4  (9.0)  |  18.3 (16.9)  |  19.0 (15.3)  |
| Maximum FPS   |         9.9   |  33.6 (20.6)  |  64.2 (48.6)  |  71.0 (45.5)  |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+

Note: Values in parentheses are for benchmark
run on eGPU but displayed on internal display.

+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| Metric        |     HD 3000   |     NVS 510   |  GTX 660 Ti   | Radeon RX 460 |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
| GB4 OpenCL    |  impossible   |         ???   |         ???   |       57734   |    
| GB5 Metal     |  impossible   |        1009   |        6339   |        fail   |      
| GB5 OpenCL    |  impossible   |         807   |        4815   |       15691   |
| LuxMark Ball  |  impossible   |         548   |        3472   |        5532   |
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+

UPDATE 2021.11.20:

• Re-ran Heaven without AA and updated results. Other settings were identical to previous run.
• Added Valley results.
• Added Heaven and Valley results when accelerating the internal display.

UPDATE 2021.11.21:

• Added results for a 2GB GeForce GTX 660 Ti, the most powerful GPU I have.

UPDATE 2021.11.26:

• Added results for a 2GB Radeon RX 460 (HP OEM version).

UPDATE 2021.12.07:

• Repeated RX 460 benchmarks using purge-wrangler.

 

[Amethyst1]

As my initial results show, even a low-end Kepler card readily beats the HD 3000, with the curious exception of Nexuiz. While it is possible to have the eGPU accelerate the internal display by running something windowed on a monitor attached to the eGPU and then moving it to the internal display, the performance hit is significant over Thunderbolt 1 (Heaven score: —27.5%; Valley score: —30.6%).

As a sidenote, running the benchmarks on the HD 3000 causes the CPU temperature to hover within the 80≈90°C range and the MBP's fan to ramp up very audibly. Running them on the eGPU keeps the CPU temperature in the 70≈80°C range… and the fan doesn't ramp up. So if the goal is to shut up the MBP's fan, this… does it (LOL).