Thunderbolt on ARM ?

[JPack]

The current implementation of Thunderbolt 3 outside Intel, a custom chip that interfaces with the PCIe connection to the CPU is slower. I’m not so sure that Apple will be able to integrate that to their silicon because otherwise AMD would have done it already.

It's probably a timing issue. Srouji previously mentioned in an interview Apple works on a three-year roadmap. Intel didn't release the standard for Thunderbolt 3 until 2019. But Intel did announce this plan in 2017, so the earliest would be chips launched 2020?

 

[PortoMavericks]

It's probably a timing issue. Srouji previously mentioned in an interview Apple works on a three-year roadmap. Intel didn't release the standard for Thunderbolt 3 until 2019. But Intel did announce this plan in 2017, so the earliest would be chips launched 2020?

I think there’s a high chance we’ll get that on the first Mac with Apple Silicon but with the USB 4 standard. I hope Intel is more open with USB 4 to the idea of Thunderbolt integration on SoCs, instead of going PCIe.

If Apple goes that way, AMD will follow and everyone wins. Probably. ?

 

[JPack]

I think there’s a high chance we’ll get that on the first Mac with Apple Silicon but with the USB 4 standard. I hope Intel is more open with USB 4 to the idea of Thunderbolt integration on SoCs, instead of going PCIe.

If Apple goes that way, AMD will follow and everyone wins. Probably. ?

I'm less confident because Kuo reports ASMedia will be the exclusive supplier of USB4 controllers to Apple in 2022.

It sounds great to have on-die Thunderbolt or USB4, but it uses a lot of space. On Ice Lake, the TB3 controller represents about 9% of die area.

Given the circumstances, I think Apple is more likely to focus on fundamentals like core count and interconnect rather than uncore items for the next couple of cycles.

 

[johngwheeler]

But who would ever need more than the speed of a USB2 SD card slot. WHO I ASK YOU!?

I'm hoping this was sarcasm....

 

[Stephen.R]

I'm hoping this was sarcasm....

 

[zooole]

I just want to point out that they used ProDisplay XDRs during the demo.

 

[throAU]

As for the support for real thunderbolt devices, it is more of a technical / architectural issue than a licensing one. Even though ARM processors already support PCIe devices, I imagine it would take years for major companies like ARM, Apple, AMD and Nvidia to come up with a complete and open architecture to support something like external GPUs on Apple Silicon macs and ARM PCs. I wouldn't hold my breath for it honestly.

• Thunderbolt is an open standard since the exclusive license expired a couple of years ago
• Thunderbolt protocol wise is essentially PCIe on a cable, which is why eGPUs, etc. work on intel today - they just look like a PCIe x4 connected device to whatever display driver the host uses.
• if Axx support PCIe then it can support thunderbolt via an appropriate chip - which Apple, being an original licensee/partner involved in Thunderbolt's creation can certainly build.

The big issue will simply be drivers for whatever other hardware is on the end of the cable, but I'm sure Apple will get a handle on that for most non-GPU stuff pretty quickly. GPUs will take a little more time because they're simply so complex.
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I just want to point out that they used ProDisplay XDRs during the demo.

To be fair that just means they have DisplayPort working on the USB-C cable... not necessarily full thunderbolt.

 

[AdamSeen]

They will have thunderbolt on the new ARM macs. You can’t replace thunderbolt with USB C in all cases. The investment that some Mac uses have made in thunderbolt 3 over the years would absolutely kill part of their pro market.

 

[MevetS]

“Over a decade ago, Apple partnered with Intel to design and develop Thunderbolt, and today our customers enjoy the speed and flexibility it brings to every Mac. We remain committed to the future of Thunderbolt and will support it in Macs with Apple silicon.”

Source:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280990374614401025

 

[Waragainstsleep]

Actually you sort of can. USB4 basically incorporates TB3 from what I can tell.