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Do you think it’s time for Tim Cook to move on? He’s a #’s guy not a Visionary


  • Total voters
    509
  • Poll closed .

TSE

macrumors 601
Jun 25, 2007
4,025
3,530
St. Paul, Minnesota
I think Tim Cook has done an amazing job for Apple - there's no doubt his logistics and business prowess has maximized Apple's footprint culturally and created profits unheard of before. He's an iterative-thinker, foregoing reinvention for improvement.

He has been responsible for the Apple Watch, a device that has a lot less capabilities than we expected pre-release. It's purpose as a fitness and lifestyle device moreso than a tech product is not a direction I (think) Steve would have taken, but it's a meaningful one which it does very well and that people love.

Leading the Mac into it's next, amazing generation utilizing Apple CPUs which will allow for sleeker, thinner, better designs.

Giving us more options with all devices.

Honing in on Services and taking Apple to the next level with those, something Steve continually attempted many times and never did succeed at.




Everything ebbs and flows. And while Tim has done a great job and will continue to do so, I just hope that when he steps down, the next CEO brings his special take on Apple, products, technology, and software. Perhaps it's time to bring a "product revolutionary" like Steve back vs. the refinement guy that Cook has been.
 

Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,394
4,227
Sweden
Tim is as interesting and exciting as a wet rag, but Steve must have known there was no one who could really replace him. I’m not saying he was some kind of God, but I’m sure he thought there was no one else like him. Thus, he installed a supply chain master who could keep the business running.

Tim Apple’s Apple is boring, but I think that’s necessary. It’s building up the coffers to do something different? We’ll see if that actually happens.

I think Tim Cook has done an amazing job for Apple - there's no doubt his logistics and business prowess has maximized Apple's footprint culturally and created profits unheard of before. He's an iterative-thinker, foregoing reinvention for improvement.

Everything ebbs and flows. And while Tim has done a great job and will continue to do so, I just hope that when he steps down, the next CEO brings his special take on Apple, products, technology, and software. Perhaps it's time to bring a "product revolutionary" like Steve back vs. the refinement guy that Cook has been.
I agree that Tim was absolutely the right guy after Steve. Perfect to provid stability for a company in grief.
He just built on what was there, and made it bigger to start with. He kept expanded the business greatly. Perfect, as he do absolutely nothing else than work, work, work - goes up in the middle of the night and starts.
He has no other life, he is a workaholic in every sense. He adored Steve, as most of us did, so I am sure he do what he think is best for Apple.

But as years have gone, Apple and especially the keynotes are more boring than hell now.
I can accept that, I don't expect them to make my life, I do that. But I sure don't want to watch them either.
I still love the products, and will keep doing that. I've been with Apple since 1994!

But there's nothing interesting in how Apple are today, and that is absolutely Tim's making.
I hope someone who really have some ideas can bring back some spirit to the company will take over, soonest.
I don't expect it to happen in the nearest 5 yrs though, unless something very surprising occur.
 
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subi257

macrumors 65816
Sep 13, 2018
1,324
1,640
New Jersey
Tim is a numbers man. These wasn’t his ideas. Believe me. They came to him and showed them what they wanted to create. Steve Jobs was a visionary he would of came to his team with the vision & cussed them out and been on their a*s until his vision came to life.
So, besides being a visionary, he was a dick and a tyrant. Dude, you seem to hate Apple so much, you should just give it up
 

blkjedi954

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2012
407
314
Florida
Amen. And this isn’t about Apple loyalty to me in the least. However, they do provide a phenomenally superior product in so many ways, especially as it applies to biometric authentication. I’m a software developer (and concurrently a computer science major, returned to finish my degree). I can only ever wish that people had any CLUE as to the degree of complexity in every layer of this field and how incredibly precise every last element must function; they’d never think to complain or get obnoxious about notches again. I just thank God there are people who dedicate their lives each day, virtually thanklessly, to make a better product. The engineers I have met at Apple are some of the most astounding and passionate people I have ever spoken with.

I realize I run the risk of coming off as snide or elitist in this, but I’d rather have someone misinterpret me as that than to continue to excuse “brat fascism”. It’s such a problem of today. Who are tomorrow’s creators going to be with this type of attitude spreading? There is such a disconnect between reality of the knows and know-nots, and the power user so frequently confuses himself with a quasi-creator pretending to know how any layer actually functions in practicality. Even the simplest seeming components are monumentally complex.

This is why it is a slap in the face to me (and humanity at large) when people so deeply and fundamentally trivialize the immense innovation and intelligence that goes into products like these by fixating on where something in technology should be versus where it’s at.

And your point about class actions is spot on. Vultures await Apple’s every minor decision just for a shot to skim off the top. Apple is continuing to change the world for the better every day (they’re doers), and the products they put out, even iterative ones, are both progressive and meaningful. I couldn’t create what they do, so the last thing I will do is apply my own timeline onto their products. It’s a privilege to own any of them, most especially the latest.
Super insightful and worth the read. Thank you for this complex, thorough and necessary explanation. Cheers!
 

TrapDoorSpider

Suspended
Aug 25, 2021
65
103
So, besides being a visionary, he was a dick and a tyrant. Dude, you seem to hate Apple so much, you should just give it up
Not only should the poster give up insulting Apple outright, but what makes him think he knows Tim Cook? Just because someone loves efficiency and is adept at leadership and financial decisions doesn’t mean it is all they are. It isn’t like he has no eye whatsoever. People act like Apple has put out gaudy **** since Steve left. Total mischaracterization and incredibly superficial as well.
 

rhyzome

macrumors 6502
Apr 2, 2012
394
84
Apple needs a “Visionary” person in its leadership position one who has a passion for technology & also has a backbone like Steve Jobs and is not afraid of saying No and calling people out. Steve Jobs in my opinion would of never released the current iPhone 13 Pro. It would of been much much better. Tim Cook is a logistic & a numbers guy. Not a leader that should be charged and not one that others inspire to be & look up to.
Yeah I agree, Steve was a visionary, almost an artist. Tim OTOH is your typical suit wearing, revenue-focussed CEO. I don’t expect any exciting, explosive transformations occuring in the tech world because of him, but steady growth and some slow transformations—some glacially slow—and if course the preservation of Apple’s spot as a top tech company.

Tim is a good CEO, but he isn’t any Steve Jobs, at least not yet.
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
Apple needs a “Visionary” person in its leadership position one who has a passion for technology & also has a backbone like Steve Jobs and is not afraid of saying No and calling people out. Steve Jobs in my opinion would of never released the current iPhone 13 Pro. It would of been much much better. Tim Cook is a logistic & a numbers guy. Not a leader that should be charged and not one that others inspire to be & look up to.
This is a very interesting discussion.

I watched Apple's presentation of the new MacBook Pros this Monday. Tim Cook was the guy on the field, talking generically about Apple, vision, and values, and delegating every technical aspect to other people to talk about. It was the same during Apple's presentation of the iPhone 13. Just for the sake of curiosity, I have searched some videos of past Apple's presentations. Tim Cook was the guy that introduced the iPhone X, just to immediately call Phil Schiller to explain what it was and what it did. As far as I know, Tim Cook never talks about product details, he only talks about how "they love product X", how "product Y changes people's lives", and so on. He always calls other people to give the details.

Steve Jobs was kind of the opposite. He dove deeply into the products specifics, and he was clearly in love with the tech. He might not be the engineer or have the knowledge of Woz, but he was clearly interested in the products. Steve Jobs himself presented the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the MacBook Air, and so many other products. He knew about those products, he knew the specifics by heart, and he wanted to talk about them, providing his own personal touch.

Microsoft may have followed a similar path. In the past, Bill Gates made the presentations of the products. Perhaps he did not show as much enthusiasm as Steve Jobs, but he did it himself. Then, Steve Ballmer, as CEO, was a lot more enthusiastic, even if not so charismatic. Steve Ballmer was interested in products and even made some bold statements about Apple products such as the iPhone, the iPad, and the MacBook Air. Satya Nadella takes a different approach. I suppose he takes more interest in products than Tim Cook, but what he really does is talk about leadership, vision, future, culture, market trends, sales, and other management stuff. He is not the one who presents the products or tells about the specifics of them.

It may be a trend. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were founders of their companies. They created tech companies because they liked tech in the first place. Apple and Microsoft were once small companies, and Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had to do the job themselves. They ended up becoming executives and CEOs because the situation led them to this.

When Steve Jobs died, shareholders were worried about the future of Apple. Steve Jobs was a visionary and had an incredible personal feeling, but what a listed company really needs is reliability and not ingenuity. Shareholders and customers needed Apple to keep providing products and services for the foreseeable future, regardless of the person behind it; the company could not rely on the individual.

Under Tim Cook, Apple became the first trillion dollar company. Today, its market cap exceeds $2 trillion. Microsoft followed a similar path: Satya Nadella drove it to be a trillion dollar company and to eventually reach $2 trillion. It is probably not a coincidence. Either these two companies reached this kind of value because tech companies in general were up, or because they were well managed after the first generation of founders retired, or both. Probably both, as Intel, even being a tech company, failed to reach such heights.

I have read some articles comparing Steve Jobs and Tim Cook and they usually reach the conclusion that Tim Cook is the better CEO.


Tim Cook (as well as Satya Nadella) is a market executive, prepared to run a company. He knows the market, and not the products themselves. He is interested in management, in inspiring people and teams, in streamlining processes, in efficiency. He is not interested in products; he does not fall in love with the iPhone or the iMac like we, customers, do. That is the role that a CEO should assume, and Tim Cook has been particularly good at it.

This is weird because John Sculley, the guy who replaced Steve Jobs when he was fired from Apple in the 1980s, was a successful executive who knew nothing about technology, and he failed miserably. But perhaps it was because Sculley, unlike Tim Cook, did not understand about the tech market, and not about the products.

Now, Tim Cook is the CEO that checks all the marks, does everything a CEO is supposed to do, empowers people and give them space (to deliver public speeches on the products, for instance). At the same time, he is perfectly replaceable by someone else who has similar management skills. An Apple without Tim Cook is nowhere near an Apple without Steve Jobs. This certainty leads to Apple being valued as a company.

Personally, if you ask me, I would much prefer the style of Steve Jobs. I like the CEO being a guy who loves the products as much as I do. Steve Jobs made the products he wished to use for himself, and found a way to sell them for a reasonable price. Tim Cook is the guy who does not care about the products, but only about the company; he just want the products to sell, and to charge as much as he can for them. Plus, without Steve Jobs, Apple certainly would not be the behemoth it is today. As much as Tim Cook may have been efficient, Apple would never be the world's most valuable company if it was not for Steve Jobs' legacy.

So, I do not care if Tim Cook stays or goes. If Tim Cook goes, he will probably be replaced by another CEO interested in the very same things. The tech guy is now either an Apple employee or will create his own company. He will not become Apple's CEO.
 

Eric Idle

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2020
593
473
This is a very interesting discussion.

I watched Apple's presentation of the new MacBook Pros this Monday. Tim Cook was the guy on the field, talking generically about Apple, vision, and values, and delegating every technical aspect to other people to talk about. It was the same during Apple's presentation of the iPhone 13. Just for the sake of curiosity, I have searched some videos of past Apple's presentations. Tim Cook was the guy that introduced the iPhone X, just to immediately call Phil Schiller to explain what it was and what it did. As far as I know, Tim Cook never talks about product details, he only talks about how "they love product X", how "product Y changes people's lives", and so on. He always calls other people to give the details.

Steve Jobs was kind of the opposite. He dove deeply into the products specifics, and he was clearly in love with the tech. He might not be the engineer or have the knowledge of Woz, but he was clearly interested in the products. Steve Jobs himself presented the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the MacBook Air, and so many other products. He knew about those products, he knew the specifics by heart, and he wanted to talk about them, providing his own personal touch.

Microsoft may have followed a similar path. In the past, Bill Gates made the presentations of the products. Perhaps he did not show as much enthusiasm as Steve Jobs, but he did it himself. Then, Steve Ballmer, as CEO, was a lot more enthusiastic, even if not so charismatic. Steve Ballmer was interested in products and even made some bold statements about Apple products such as the iPhone, the iPad, and the MacBook Air. Satya Nadella takes a different approach. I suppose he takes more interest in products than Tim Cook, but what he really does is talk about leadership, vision, future, culture, market trends, sales, and other management stuff. He is not the one who presents the products or tells about the specifics of them.

It may be a trend. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were founders of their companies. They created tech companies because they liked tech in the first place. Apple and Microsoft were once small companies, and Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had to do the job themselves. They ended up becoming executives and CEOs because the situation led them to this.

When Steve Jobs died, shareholders were worried about the future of Apple. Steve Jobs was a visionary and had an incredible personal feeling, but what a listed company really needs is reliability and not ingenuity. Shareholders and customers needed Apple to keep providing products and services for the foreseeable future, regardless of the person behind it; the company could not rely on the individual.

Under Tim Cook, Apple became the first trillion dollar company. Today, its market cap exceeds $2 trillion. Microsoft followed a similar path: Satya Nadella drove it to be a trillion dollar company and to eventually reach $2 trillion. It is probably not a coincidence. Either these two companies reached this kind of value because tech companies in general were up, or because they were well managed after the first generation of founders retired, or both. Probably both, as Intel, even being a tech company, failed to reach such heights.

I have read some articles comparing Steve Jobs and Tim Cook and they usually reach the conclusion that Tim Cook is the better CEO.


Tim Cook (as well as Satya Nadella) is a market executive, prepared to run a company.

Nope. Tim Cook is an operations guy. He knows nothing of marketing. He's never held an Apple marketing position.




He knows the market, and not the products themselves. He is interested in management, in inspiring people and teams, in streamlining processes, in efficiency. He is not interested in products; he does not fall in love with the iPhone or the iMac like we, customers, do. That is the role that a CEO should assume, and Tim Cook has been particularly good at it.

This is weird because John Sculley, the guy who replaced Steve Jobs when he was fired from Apple in the 1980s, was a successful executive who knew nothing about technology, and he failed miserably. But perhaps it was because Sculley, unlike Tim Cook, did not understand about the tech market, and not about the products.

Now, Tim Cook is the CEO that checks all the marks, does everything a CEO is supposed to do, empowers people and give them space (to deliver public speeches on the products, for instance). At the same time, he is perfectly replaceable by someone else who has similar management skills. An Apple without Tim Cook is nowhere near an Apple without Steve Jobs. This certainty leads to Apple being valued as a company.

Personally, if you ask me, I would much prefer the style of Steve Jobs. I like the CEO being a guy who loves the products as much as I do. Steve Jobs made the products he wished to use for himself, and found a way to sell them for a reasonable price. Tim Cook is the guy who does not care about the products, but only about the company; he just want the products to sell, and to charge as much as he can for them. Plus, without Steve Jobs, Apple certainly would not be the behemoth it is today. As much as Tim Cook may have been efficient, Apple would never be the world's most valuable company if it was not for Steve Jobs' legacy.

So, I do not care if Tim Cook stays or goes. If Tim Cook goes, he will probably be replaced by another CEO interested in the very same things. The tech guy is now either an Apple employee or will create his own company. He will not become Apple's CEO.
 

TiggrToo

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2017
4,205
8,838
As is obvious from the low success of the company that his right hand should continue to do the daily ceo stuff. Apple is doomed! DOOMED!
And odd considering Steve Jobs credited Tim Cook for Apple’s growth.

But I guess the armchair quarterbacks knew more that Jobs did and are also highly skilled CEO’s just waiting to be hired…
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
Nope. Tim Cook is an operations guy. He knows nothing of marketing. He's never held an Apple marketing position.
What I meant is that Tim Cook is an executive prepared to meet the market requirements of what a CEO should be. He is definitely not a marketing guy.
 

CrapShack

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2018
103
360
DC
Apple needs a “Visionary” person in its leadership position one who has a passion for technology & also has a backbone like Steve Jobs and is not afraid of saying No and calling people out.
Sorry, I had to double check the date this was originally posted. September 20th 2021. WHAT!? Last month? September 20th, 2011 would've been the time to create this post, MAYBE.
 

SalisburySam

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2019
921
809
Salisbury, North Carolina
Steve also said many years ago that once you put money hungry people in charge of a company that’s when everything goes down hill.
Yeah, except that it has not. Huge market capitalization, enviable stock performance, brand new chips unseating Intel and eliminating key supply chain problems, newly-refined key products, closer hardware/software integration than ever, despite the occasional dispute Apple remains a company that is more desirable than ever to work for according to several labor studies, the 3rd or 4th-most desirable place for high-tech workers after SpaceX and Tesla, and on and on and on. So yeah, that downhill slide is treacherous indeed.
 
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SalisburySam

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2019
921
809
Salisbury, North Carolina
Yeah I agree, Steve was a visionary, almost an artist. Tim OTOH is your typical suit wearing, revenue-focussed CEO. I don’t expect any exciting, explosive transformations occuring in the tech world because of him, but steady growth and some slow transformations—some glacially slow—and if course the preservation of Apple’s spot as a top tech company.

Tim is a good CEO, but he isn’t any Steve Jobs, at least not yet.
1- Can't remember Cook ever wearing a suit outside of a congressional hearing, but whatever...
2- I think we differ on what might be "...explosive transformations..." in that I view Apple Silicon as exactly that.
3- As to Cook vs. Jobs as a good CEO, that's kinda determined by your definition of "good." For a publicly-traded company like Apple, my definition of good and worthy of their total compensation package is someone who vastly increases the value (market cap) of a company, provides either share income (dividends) or growth (stock pricing escalation) or some of both, someone who can navigate difficult Boards of Directors to form a cohesive vision, and hire and develop key next-tier executives to actually make the right things happen. I think it's fair to say SJ was a tad (OK, a lot) more hands-on than TC and I would argue, while appropriate to a fledgling and/or small entrepreneurship, that is not really the CEO's job. But I characterize both as very, very good CEO's for the other reasons. Just my opinion.
 
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skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
Also, you can be pro Tim Cook all you want. That's fine. I take a different position, having called for his firing for many years, voting against him at shareholder meetings each and every year. Tim Cook has been an absoluley appalling CEO of Apple in my view. I deeply regret Steve Jobs getting hoodwinked into promoting him into this position. Apple is now and will be suffering from Jobs' failure for many many years into the future.
I am not pro Tim Cook. I hold no Apple shares and I do not benefit from his performance as a CEO.

I am a consumer and, as such, I feel Steve Jobs was more connected to the products. Steve Jobs introduced new revolutionary products such as the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad. Tim Cook introduced tiers and product differentiation, basically compelling us to spend more money to buy advancements in technology.

But I do not know why I would not be happy if I were a shareholder. Apple is the most valuable company in the world. Shares went up, and Apple seems to be doing great with record profits. Perhaps I am not following Apple (as the company) with enough care, but it seems to me that, as a CEO of a publicly-held company, Tim Cook is doing a great job. I could see why a shareholder of Intel would not be happy, but not a shareholder of Apple...
 

Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,394
4,227
Sweden
I think it’s important to have both a personal view and an objective view regarding Tim and his role in Apple.
I don’t like the man personally, truly. He is just so f## BORING!
But I am more then certain that he’s done a great job for Apple the last 10 yrs, in a critical situation after Steve died. I am however not sure he will carry Apple along in all best interest forever, or until the dude knock him selves out.

But shareholders are happy, Apple have been growing, and are doing great. Wonderful.
But what also have been happening is that Apple are just a another product I find useful for me today.
The reason I picked and was mesmerized of Apple way back in the early 90's was of the innovation and all brilliance it inspired. Apple inspire absolutely ZERO for me today. It’s tech products, nothing else.
What remain left from the Steve era is however the forums and the fellowship around Apple and our tech interest, even though that has changed in many ways too.

I am ok with change. There are other bright people I draw my inspiration from today. Apple and its leaders are no longer on that list 😁
Tim wouldn’t even be on my top 1000 list, not a chance.
 
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TiggrToo

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2017
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deeply regret Steve Jobs getting hoodwinked into promoting
Jobs personally hunted Cook down, hired him and subsequently credited him for Apple's success.

Please provide an actual citation - a link to an independent third party site - to show where Jobs was "hoodwinked".
 
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skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,243
1,398
Brazil
Could you expand on WHY you think he's doing such a bad job - perhaps corroborate this against that website you mention. Actually any analysis, that criticises TC in the way that supports your argument, from ANY reputable outlet will do. Maybe this article from Quartz, from 5 years ago, articulates what you're trying to say?: https://qz.com/819739/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ballmer-and-why-he-still-has-his-job-at-apple/

A few genuine questions:
  1. How was SJ hoodwinked? (If I remember carefully SJ recommended to the board v
  2. How is Apple currently suffering? I'll even let you rule out the money argument.
  3. What could, in your opinion, could TC do to save Apple and set it on the right course?
I just want to say I'm not trying to bait you nor am I trying to come across as fiery. I just want to converse about this and understand your point of view but so far you've given very little in the way of substantive claims.


It's telling that my comment didn't get a response.
It is an interesting article. It compares Tim Cook to Steve Ballmer in the sense that both are executors who seek short-term gains and sacrifice the company's vision for the future. That is definitely one way of seeing things.

I think there are fundamental differences between them. Steve Ballmer missed the opportunity to extend Microsoft's dominance to the smartphone market as he was focusing on what the company did best at the time.

When Ballmer was the CEO, the world saw the smartphone gain ground at fast pace following the release of the iPhone. It was not Ballmer's fault: RIM's Blackberry also went down, as did many other phone manufacturers and other companies who could not handle the changes to the smartphone business that the iPhone caused. The iPhone was really disruptive. Google was smart and remade Android to be a competitor to the iPhone. It is easy to blame Steve Ballmer now, but, at the time, smartphones were a risky bet.

While Tim Cook is the CEO of Apple, the company is still heavily reliant on the iPhone. Tim Cook is not really interested in products, but he knows what he is doing and he wants to launch new lines of products (or, to be more accurate, of business). Under Tim Cook, Apple brought to life the Watch, the AirPods, and launched services such as TV+, Music, and Arcade. Those are all lines of business.

I do not see any product being released that could be as disruptive as the iPhone was. Tim Cook is lucky because he will hardly fall on the same trap as Ballmer did. Tim Cook is betting on different lines of businesses. What he is not doing is creating something really new, as did Steve Jobs. Under Jobs, Apple launched products that inaugurated new businesses, such as the iPod, the iPhone, the MacBook Air, and the iPad. Under Cook, Apple releases its own versions of products, filling business lines that are already occupied by other companies.
 

Carrotcruncher

macrumors regular
Oct 13, 2019
190
164
Then maybe it's Craig F that needs to go, since he's over software development directly, not Tim C. However, I'm happily plugging along just fine with Apple's apps and macOS. No it's not perfect and never has been, but it sure works fine 95% of the time for me!
The buck stops with the Boss !
 
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