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See my post earlier in the thread, which I will expand upon further after today's additional experience. Today he asked me to look at his Exchange email account as he was having a couple of troubles - 1) he couldn't open attachments, it just hung with no error messages. 2) He couldn't view mail inside sub-folders.

After some research it turns out that sub-folders do not get mail pushed to them (you have to manually open the folder then trigger a refresh) and Android does not support a self-signed certificate (this was also responsible for the attachments issue). This means that Exchange was a no-go. We installed a $20 3rd party mail program that got by these issues, but that program took over an hour to synchronize. This is something that takes minutes on every other phone. All told, setting up Exchange to work satisfactorily for him, a task I have done dozens of times on other phones, took up 1/2 of my work day. Awesome.

As far as customization goes, yeah, Android largely wins there, but for most users, it turns out that's a negative, not a benefit, as, like today, it means that there are multiple solutions to many problems, none of which are ideal. Furthermore, I really fail to see how jailbreaking to open your iphone to customization is really all that different than customizing Android. A user that wouldn't jailbreak their iphone wouldn't do anything but add the most basic apps to their Android phone, either.

Not having used Exchange myself, I can't really comment on your experiences there--but it does sound like there is definitely some room for improvment. Fair enough. With that said, if it's reasonable to give Apple time to improve/add MMS/tethering etc, it's certainly reasonable to give Google a chance to address this. Ideally, both sides would innovate/fix things at a faster rate than they do--but at least it's not a feature that's either a) hardware-limited or b) something that the manufacturer has decided to ignore (think multitasking...). Clearly, there's some room for improvement, though--no argument.

I can't agree with your take on customizations, though--how exactly is multiple solutions worse than having no options for customization? Also, jailbreaking is a totally different deal than supported customization of Android. If you run into trouble with a jailbroken iPhone, you either have to wipe it clean to bring it in for help from Apple, or just deal with it on your own. Apple makes it exceedingly clear that they want nothing to do with jailbroken software, and will not support it. Your suggestion that people who don't jailbreak iPhones won't add anything but the most basic apps to Android is a reach as well--an interest in customization is not mutually exclusive from an interest in keeping your phone in a state where you can get support from the manufacturer.
 
I can't agree with your take on customizations, though--how exactly is multiple solutions worse than having no options for customization? Also, jailbreaking is a totally different deal than supported customization of Android. If you run into trouble with a jailbroken iPhone, you either have to wipe it clean to bring it in for help from Apple, or just deal with it on your own. Apple makes it exceedingly clear that they want nothing to do with jailbroken software, and will not support it. Your suggestion that people who don't jailbreak iPhones won't add anything but the most basic apps to Android is a reach as well--an interest in customization is not mutually exclusive from an interest in keeping your phone in a state where you can get support from the manufacturer.

Having options for customization within the boundaries set by Apple is far different than no ability to customize at all. And for many people, too many options for customization just creates confusion. For power users, who are very specific about what they want, customization is good, but for the vast majority of users who really just want the thing to work, customization made by professionals is much preferable to customizations made by novice users.

As for the jailbreak, I'm not saying that it's exactly the same, but the net result is ultimately much the same. Customization is available to users of both platforms, and anyone who knows anything about jailbreaking also knows to restore their phone before taking it in for service. What kind of service would you really expect to get from Motorola or Verizon if a 3rd party, unsigned app was causing problems with the device?
 
Having options for customization within the boundaries set by Apple is far different than no ability to customize at all. And for many people, too many options for customization just creates confusion. For power users, who are very specific about what they want, customization is good, but for the vast majority of users who really just want the thing to work, customization made by professionals is much preferable to customizations made by novice users.

As for the jailbreak, I'm not saying that it's exactly the same, but the net result is ultimately much the same. Customization is available to users of both platforms, and anyone who knows anything about jailbreaking also knows to restore their phone before taking it in for service. What kind of service would you really expect to get from Motorola or Verizon if a 3rd party, unsigned app was causing problems with the device?

Honestly, though, look at what little customization Apple allows--you can't even use a custom SMS tone, or change your homescreen background image. I don't buy the "it confuses people" argument, really--if you must, just put the advanced features in an "advanced" menu--just like how Apple sticks its advanced utilities in desktop OSX in the "Utilities" folder--they're easily accessible, but the basic user doesn't even have to know they exist, let alone interact with them. It just wouldn't be that hard.

As for the jailbreaking, here's the issue--if your phone is jailbroken, Apple won't touch it, period, whether your issues are hardware or software related. Apple goes out of their way to discourage jailbreaking.
 
As for the jailbreaking, here's the issue--if your phone is jailbroken, Apple won't touch it, period, whether your issues are hardware or software related. Apple goes out of their way to discourage jailbreaking.

Yeah, but the simple fix is to restore before you bring it in. It takes moments, and there is no sign of jailbreaking. I ask again, if you were having software issues with an Android phone, what do you really think the manufacturer or cell provider is going to do for you? They're going to tell you to restore to see if it fixes it, that's what. In the end, the results are pretty much the same.
 
Yeah, but the simple fix is to restore before you bring it in. It takes moments, and there is no sign of jailbreaking. I ask again, if you were having software issues with an Android phone, what do you really think the manufacturer or cell provider is going to do for you? They're going to tell you to restore to see if it fixes it, that's what. In the end, the results are pretty much the same.

The difference is that if you can't restore it, for whatever reason, you haven't voided your warranty on the Android device. Sure, it's a pretty low-risk gamble for most people...but it's absurd that it should even be in question to begin with. As for your question regarding what the manufacturer/cell provider response would be with Android--you're right, they'd probably tell you to try to reset the device. However, they wouldn't ignore you/write off your warranty for the supported customization.

Example: what if this person can't get their data working again?
 
I've owned an iPod Touch since the month after they were released.
I now own a Droid and I think I have enough credibility to compare both devices, even though I've never owned an iPhone. I'm going to make this as unbiased as I possibly can, so I'll leave out factors that are different between the iPod Touch and the iPhone such as signal and SMS.

Everything I list is going to exclude any thoughts of jail breaking. You shouldn't have to risk voiding your warranty in order to have a better performing phone.

iPhone

Pros:
- UI is simple and seamless, my grandmother could operate one sufficiently if she had about a week or so to get used to it. Transitions are awesome and there's no lag at all, for the most part.
- The brand. Hate to say it, but because it has an Apple logo on it people feel it's superior. Like Abercrombie vs. K-Mart clothes - some are exactly the same but the label makes all the difference.
- iTunes Store (NOT the app store). I'd choose the iTunes store over Amazon any day.
- Better accessory-buying experience. Because it's so popular you can buy accessories almost anywhere without worrying about compatibility.
- Much better music UI without downloading a third-party music app. It's amazing, and I mean AMAZING. Genius is a gift from god and I just love its functionality in general.
Cons:
- This is probably its biggest downfall in my opinion - no multitasking. Life is so much easier with multitasking.
- If you like the UI, you're stuck with one model. You can't have the iPhone UI with any other phone. If Apple made a UI for the Droid and added multitasking I'd consider using it until Android works out certain bugs on the Droid's version of the OS.
- Apps are basically locked out of the OS, meaning they cannot operate outside of themselves unless you consider push capability.
- No LED light on the bezel to help notify the user of messages, low battery life, etc.
- No physical keyboard. This is a big turn-off for a lot of users because some people can't type on the software keyboard without throwing their phone into a wall, or throwing it out of a moving car.

Android (using Droid as a reference)

Pro:
- Multitasking, multitasking, multitasking. Most of you argue that the iPhone DOES multitask, but it really doesn't unless you consider stock apps. Yes, you can have music playing while you send a message and post a tweet, but forget about it if you want to listen to Pandora along the way. Last night I was listening to Pandora, posting a tweet, checking e-mail, browsing the web, and playing solitaire all at the same time flawlessly.
- Different models for different users. Want a physical keyboard? No problem. How about just a plain touch-screen? Well, you have several choices!
- Apps. Android is an open platform, so apps can do a lot more than they can on the iPhone. I have an app that turns my phone on silent whenever I enter a certain radius of my work office, or at certain times like when I go to sleep. Even an app that can change my UI completely or an app that replaces my default messaging app.
- LED light and Flash. Flash really comes in handy in dim light, and there's even an app that utilizes it as a flashlight. The LED light makes it much easier when looking to see if you have messages. No need to unlock the phone.
- Notification bar. This is so helpful; I really don't know why the iPhone doesn't have a pull-down like this.

Con:
- Music interface is, in lack of a better word, crap. I still haven't found a music interface app on the app store that even comes close to the iPhone's.
- Because the Droid is relatively new, there are some bugs and flaws in its version of the Android OS. The same can be said for other Android phones. They're fixable, but it takes a while for carriers to send out OS updates which is very annoying.
- Less compatibility. If a third-party creates a device that's meant to be used with smart phones there's a 99% chance it's compatible with the iPhone, but not so much with Android. I've yet to find a dock with speakers that works with my Droid.
- Like someone mentioned before, the iPhone has an OS designed FOR it. Android phones are designed for the OS. This makes bugs unavoidable, but I really don't think it's decent to compare it to Windows. Windows isn't designed for specific hardware...Android is, in a way. There are variations in the Android OS for each phone. HTC phones have different needs than Motorola phones, etc.

Overall, I think that the iPhone and Android both have their advances and drawbacks. If I had a choice between the two I'd choose Android just because it's available on Verizon and I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my service because I've been with them for so long. If I had AT&T I'd get an iPhone without hesitation. If they were both available on the same network I'd choose an Android phone simply because of the multitasking capabilities, and the open OS. I don't NEED a physical keyboard, but it's a plus. Put that on the iPhone and I'd buy one before you can say guacamole.
 
Reasons Android will eventually beat Apple:

- More devices to choose from
- Apps are published to Android Marketplace instantly, so you don't have anyone dictating what you can and can't install
- You can install apps that aren't on the marketplace by downloading the .apk file
- Android is less restricted than the iPhone
- Android handsets give users what they want, they don't refuse to give people popular features like Flash and multitasking for stupid reasons
- Cheaper
- Is seeing more regular updates and seems to be under faster development
- Custom UIs can be placed over the top of Android (HTC Sense UI for the win!)
- HTC has "adopted" Android as the main OS for its phones and everyone knows they make excellent handsets

The iPhone is very easy to use and integrates well with iTunes, but you are severely limited in what you can do with it. iPhone = walled garden, Android = wide, open field.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

jsol92, good comparison. One thing you touched on that is pretty important to me and often overlooked is the different ecosystems. People compare app stores, but it's much more than that. It's iTunes vs amazon and mobile me (if you want it) vs google. Personally, I'll take apple in all of those comparisons except mobile me email vs gmail, where gmail wins in a landslide.

I'd bet almost anything multitasking will be in iPhone os 4, but I guess we'll know soon.
 
I've owned an iPod Touch since the month after they were released.
I now own a Droid and I think I have enough credibility to compare both devices, even though I've never owned an iPhone. I'm going to make this as unbiased as I possibly can, so I'll leave out factors that are different between the iPod Touch and the iPhone such as signal and SMS.

Everything I list is going to exclude any thoughts of jail breaking. You shouldn't have to risk voiding your warranty in order to have a better performing phone.

iPhone

Pros:
- UI is simple and seamless, my grandmother could operate one sufficiently if she had about a week or so to get used to it. Transitions are awesome and there's no lag at all, for the most part.
- The brand. Hate to say it, but because it has an Apple logo on it people feel it's superior. Like Abercrombie vs. K-Mart clothes - some are exactly the same but the label makes all the difference.
- iTunes Store (NOT the app store). I'd choose the iTunes store over Amazon any day.
- Better accessory-buying experience. Because it's so popular you can buy accessories almost anywhere without worrying about compatibility.
- Much better music UI without downloading a third-party music app. It's amazing, and I mean AMAZING. Genius is a gift from god and I just love its functionality in general.
Cons:
- This is probably its biggest downfall in my opinion - no multitasking. Life is so much easier with multitasking.
- If you like the UI, you're stuck with one model. You can't have the iPhone UI with any other phone. If Apple made a UI for the Droid and added multitasking I'd consider using it until Android works out certain bugs on the Droid's version of the OS.
- Apps are basically locked out of the OS, meaning they cannot operate outside of themselves unless you consider push capability.
- No LED light on the bezel to help notify the user of messages, low battery life, etc.
- No physical keyboard. This is a big turn-off for a lot of users because some people can't type on the software keyboard without throwing their phone into a wall, or throwing it out of a moving car.

Android (using Droid as a reference)

Pro:
- Multitasking, multitasking, multitasking. Most of you argue that the iPhone DOES multitask, but it really doesn't unless you consider stock apps. Yes, you can have music playing while you send a message and post a tweet, but forget about it if you want to listen to Pandora along the way. Last night I was listening to Pandora, posting a tweet, checking e-mail, browsing the web, and playing solitaire all at the same time flawlessly.
- Different models for different users. Want a physical keyboard? No problem. How about just a plain touch-screen? Well, you have several choices!
- Apps. Android is an open platform, so apps can do a lot more than they can on the iPhone. I have an app that turns my phone on silent whenever I enter a certain radius of my work office, or at certain times like when I go to sleep. Even an app that can change my UI completely or an app that replaces my default messaging app.
- LED light and Flash. Flash really comes in handy in dim light, and there's even an app that utilizes it as a flashlight. The LED light makes it much easier when looking to see if you have messages. No need to unlock the phone.
- Notification bar. This is so helpful; I really don't know why the iPhone doesn't have a pull-down like this.

Con:
- Music interface is, in lack of a better word, crap. I still haven't found a music interface app on the app store that even comes close to the iPhone's.
- Because the Droid is relatively new, there are some bugs and flaws in its version of the Android OS. The same can be said for other Android phones. They're fixable, but it takes a while for carriers to send out OS updates which is very annoying.
- Less compatibility. If a third-party creates a device that's meant to be used with smart phones there's a 99% chance it's compatible with the iPhone, but not so much with Android. I've yet to find a dock with speakers that works with my Droid.
- Like someone mentioned before, the iPhone has an OS designed FOR it. Android phones are designed for the OS. This makes bugs unavoidable, but I really don't think it's decent to compare it to Windows. Windows isn't designed for specific hardware...Android is, in a way. There are variations in the Android OS for each phone. HTC phones have different needs than Motorola phones, etc.

Overall, I think that the iPhone and Android both have their advances and drawbacks. If I had a choice between the two I'd choose Android just because it's available on Verizon and I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my service because I've been with them for so long. If I had AT&T I'd get an iPhone without hesitation. If they were both available on the same network I'd choose an Android phone simply because of the multitasking capabilities, and the open OS. I don't NEED a physical keyboard, but it's a plus. Put that on the iPhone and I'd buy one before you can say guacamole.

Good post I pretty much agree here. If there's one huge con with Android it's that music player and the whole multimedia experience in general, it is the one thing that is definitely pathetic compared to Apple's offering.
 
I live in Canada. Anyone that provides a good Android phone does their absolute best to ignore us. I mean they JUST released the Milestone here, but it's hard for a techie like me to invest in it knowing superior products already exist elsewhere and are coming really soon.

Apple on the other hand has an iphone for every single major carrier at this point in time, and they'll probably add to that in the future.

That's why it will always win here :p

Ya snooze ya lose google/htc/whatever.
 
What about the HTC Desire? 3.7" AMOLED touch screen (same as Nexus One), with HTC Sense...

Is that out yet? I was actually thinking about moving up to a Nexus when it comes over the Verizon though I'd consider this too if it's headed to Verizon.
 
- Apps. Android is an open platform, so apps can do a lot more than they can on the iPhone. I have an app that turns my phone on silent whenever I enter a certain radius of my work office, or at certain times like when I go to sleep.

I'm just curious, how does that work exactly? Is the GPS tracking you all the time? Doesn't that kill the battery?
 
I'm just curious, how does that work exactly? Is the GPS tracking you all the time? Doesn't that kill the battery?

Yeah - but Android gives you the choice.

It doesn't matter how much it eats the battery if you charge at the office, which some people do!

Also, even with GPS always on a phone can withstand a few hours of modest usage.
 
Yeah - but Android gives you the choice.

It doesn't matter how much it eats the battery if you charge at the office, which some people do!

Also, even with GPS always on a phone can withstand a few hours of modest usage.

I'm not debating that having choice is nice but honestly draining the battery in a few hours just to avoid flipping the silent switch doesn't seem worth it.
 
iphone to Motorala Droid/Milestone ....

The Droid or Milestone as its known in Canada has just been released here.

I've read online reviews and I'm still undecided. I've never give up my iPhone but since we're heavy users of Google App's I'm thinking this phone may be worth a try? I've read the recent Google software update improved things a lot.

Anyone switched to the Droid and liked it, hows the slide out keyboard?

Anyone tried the Droid and switched back to the iPhone.

Would like to hear comments from people who've used it.

Thanks.
 
I live in Canada. Anyone that provides a good Android phone does their absolute best to ignore us. I mean they JUST released the Milestone here, but it's hard for a techie like me to invest in it knowing superior products already exist elsewhere and are coming really soon.

Apple on the other hand has an iphone for every single major carrier at this point in time, and they'll probably add to that in the future.

That's why it will always win here :p

Ya snooze ya lose google/htc/whatever.

I agree, what new phone are you waiting for to come to Canada?
 
I agree, what new phone are you waiting for to come to Canada?

Personally, I'm not making any decision until I see the new iPhone, because if anyone deserves my first glance it's apple right now. But I'd love if the Desire or Nexus 1 was offered in some form around summer time, though I doubt it. At least the Desire is doubtful. Who knows with the N1. I refuse to buy a lesser Android phone, like the milestone, knowing a better one exists and just isn't being sold here. Personal preference, some people don't care.

Just seems like we get things when they are no longer relevant which is why it's so hard for me to care about Android even if it does interest me, and it's also why Apple deserves even MORE props for treating as as close to equals as possible. Hell we have more options than americans with carriers, so that's even better, to a degree.
 
I guess ill start, but feel free to chime in with your opinions and/or Top 5 Lists

1. App store
2. Ease of Use
3. Marketing
4. Overall User experience is superior
5. 2010 iPhone 4g and OS4.0 are gonna be game changers.

Reasons Mentioned by other users:

- iTunes integration
- "Apple Factor"/Coolness
- Ease of Use
- Functional GUI


You've got to give parameters under which you're measuring these, or it'll just be cross purposes.

App store - what's your metric - Best object number of good apps? Best games? Most number of developers or developer groups on board?
Ease of use - highly subjective with multiple meanings
Marketing - as above
User experience same again - it depends what the user wants
5 - How?
 
I'm just curious, how does that work exactly? Is the GPS tracking you all the time? Doesn't that kill the battery?

To be honest, I have no idea. It seems to me that it runs in the background only when it needs to...I can kill the app and it'll still work. I didn't notice any significant drainage in the battery life when I had the feature on, but I turned it off because I get horrible reception at my desk and it would get confused and turn the sound on and off a lot :p
Instead I just set it to turn the sound off at certain times in the day, and airplane mode goes on while I sleep to conserve the battery.


There's also a free app called "Where's My Droid?" that tracks down your phone if if ever gets stolen or you can't find it. You send a text message from any phone to your phone with a key phrase that you set and it'll either turn the phone volume all the way up and ring so you can find it, or send you the gps location and a link to a google map with the location on it so you can find it - your choice.
Pretty niffty :)
 
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