Toslink Optical Audio Gone in 2018?

[Fishrrman]

My guess is that the headphone port on the 2018 Mini no longer supports optical/digital out.

Thanks to cube for mention of "HDMI audio extractors". I did some quick googlin' and was surprised to find out that these exist. Looks like a quick-n-easy way to obtain a digital-out signal from an HDMI port -- many are reasonably priced, as well.

 

[SocialCapital]

In my case, an HDMI splitter might be the best option. One HDMI cable from the mini to the receiver, where it goes into the splitter. Out of the splitter comes one HDMI for receiver audio and one HDMI for TV signal.

 

[keith57]

Appleinsider have a hands on review:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/mac-mini-2018-review-apples-mightiest-mini-yet

They say the optical out is gone too...! Which contradicts what I was told by Apple...

I’ve just checked my 5.1 AV Receiver (havent looked at the back of it for years) and it has a load of HDMI ports, 3 in and 1 out. So I should be able to connect the HDMI out from the Mac Mini to this and then use the HDMI out from the AV Receiver to drive my 4K TV.

So, fingers crossed, all I need to do is buy a 2nd HDMI cable.

Mac Mini arriving on the 8th

 

[rmdeluca]

Appleinsider have a hands on review:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/mac-mini-2018-review-apples-mightiest-mini-yet

They say the optical out is gone too...! Which contradicts what I was told by Apple...

I’ve just checked my 5.1 AV Receiver (havent looked at the back of it for years) and it has a load of HDMI ports, 3 in and 1 out. So I should be able to connect the HDMI out from the Mac Mini to this and then use the HDMI out from the AV Receiver to drive my 4K TV.

So, fingers crossed, all I need to do is buy a 2nd HDMI cable.

Mac Mini arriving on the 8th

Just make sure your receiver supports HDMI 2.0 passthrough if you want to be able to run your 4K @ 60Hz.

 

[keith57]

It probably doesn’t do that, being 2006 vintage! Will see how it goes.

If not, I’ll try HDMI direct to the TV from the Mac Mini to get the 4K 60Hz, then TOSLINK from the TV to the AV Recveiver for the surround sound.

 

[Chancha]

The TOSLINK has slowly been phased out across new Mac models, starting from I think MBP2016. The single 3.5mm jack on a 2015 MBP used to be a combo analog in/output, on top of it having optical output as well, and TRRS (iPhone) 4 contact mono mic even.

I had similar headache with my iMac 2017 but with the axing of analog audio input, which I solved by having a simply USB audio interface.

 

[keith57]

An update for anyone who’s interested...

New Mac Mini arrived yesterday, i7 6 core, 16gb ram 512gb SSD.

It’s replacing a 2014 model I’d had to buy a year ago because my ancient Mac Mini had died, can’t even remember how old that one was.... The need was urgent as the Mini provides the home with all TV both current and recorded, we never watch any live TV.

The Mini sits in my living room and drives a nice 65” 4K (2016) Sony sceeen; sound from an old (2006) Sony AVP. Video assets sit on a 5 bay Drobo with 5 x 10gb drives. Satellite TV recorded with an EyeTV 2 channel networked box to a 2TB external drive on the Mini.

I’d been running the 2014 Mini off an external 512gb SSD to speed it up and fix some issues. So all I had to do was plug the drive into the new Mini and migrate. I’d bought a few USB-C cables for the external drives so they would work in the USB-C sockets. This went very smoothly. Configured the screen to 60Hz and it worked fine...

I had to re-pair the Harmony remote, and it worked without too much fuss, marvellous!!

No optical sound out from the 3.5mm jack... Even though Apple Sales told me it was there...
[In the System Prefs Sound Control panel there is only an internal speaker and HDMI option. May try my old TOSLINK Cable in the 3.5mm headphone jack later to see what happens?]

So, HDMI cable from the Mac to the TV now did video and sound. For one night the sound came out of the TV speakers, I’ve never used them before!

TOSLINK cable arrived today, my TV has an optical out TOSLINK socket, plug the new cable into the TV and the surround sound amp and it all just works...

[Had a little panic - they new cable wouldn’t fit into the socket on the AVP amp ... I compared the new with the old and the new one had very tiny plastic covers over the ends of the cable, so removing these solved the problem. The older TOSLINK cable (3.5mm to standard TOSLINK) I’d been using for about 10 years still had a sticker on it with a warning to remove the covers before using ...!!! ]

With my Sony TV, it appears that if I use the TOSLINK socket it kills the TV speakers, which is good.

So... everything working as it was before, which is great. Plex / EyeTV / Harmony Remote all working very fast indeed, no lag at all, picture at 60Hz looks better too, I think!

So all good and future proof for a few more years.

PS...

I almost went down the HDMI Splitter route and found this one on-line: https://www.freetv.ie/2-way-4k-hdmi-splitter/ Power can come from a spare USB socket on the Mac Mini, which would save having to manage yet another mains power block. Looks to be a good unit. They advised me the TOSLINK cable would be my better option, so doing themselves out of a sale. Seem to be really nice people.

The 512gb SSD is over ½ full with just the OS. So the 1TB might have been a better option?

 

[ElectronGuru]

It’s replacing a 2014 model I’d had to buy a year ago because my ancient Mac Mini had died, can’t even remember how old that one was.... The need was urgent as the Mini provides the home with all TV both current and recorded, we never watch any live TV.

There are precious few htpc use reports, please consider adding a few words here on how it looks and feels:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-to-oled-4k-tv.2150919/

The 512gb SSD is over ½ full with just the OS. So the 1TB might have been a better option?

Most likely a full migration pulled in a bunch of stuff you’re not using. Consider a clean install or viewing the drive with GrandPerspective

 

[Lavanta]

Just got my mini. Yes Toslink is sadly gone, USB DAC works with my Peachtree Decco2

 

[netdog]

Why do people on this thread keep asserting that Apple has dumped optical digital-audio out on the new Mini's 3.5 headphone jack when at least two people have spoken to Apple support and confirmed that this output jack still support optical digital-audio?

EDIT: And now I see a member saying that mini-toslink no longer works. Something's wrong here.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I asked Apple sales support over chat about this yesterday. They told me that the 2018 mini does still support digital audio out through the 3.5 "headphone" jack with the use of a minitoslink adapter.

They gave you bad info. It's not in there. Per https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/

Audio

• 3.5 mm headphone jack
• HDMI 2.0 port supports multichannel audio output

 

[dmg15]

So in summary... digital optical output is being phased out in newer model Macs, but they will still include 2 channel analog audio output via the existing 3.5mm headphone port that used to be dual purpose.

You can buy a seperate usb audio interface for $30 which will add a digital optical output to your new model mac, as well as a bunch of extra functionality.

You already paid $5300 for a new iMac because your previous one is a 2012 with optical and analog out. The new one only has analog but can have digital for $30, because Apple phased out the newer tech and kept the ancient tech.

$30 audio interface can also add optical out to a $400 PC.

Apple: 1 trillion
Me: -5330

 

[saulinpa]

Remember that Apple designs for their vision, not your needs. Apple doesn't believe in home theaters or high end sound. If you can't watch it on an iPad it's not worth watching. If you want music you need an Apple iPhone headset so Macs still have a place to plug it in.

 

[Duncan68]

Remember that Apple designs for their vision, not your needs. Apple doesn't believe in home theaters or high end sound. If you can't watch it on an iPad it's not worth watching. If you want music you need an Apple iPhone headset so Macs still have a place to plug it in.

Considering how they screwed up USB 2 audio on T2 Macs, you're probably right.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

If you want music you need an Apple iPhone headset so Macs still have a place to plug it in.

But, ironically, the iPhone doesn’t have such a place.

I expected to see the headset jack replaced by a Lighting jack on Macs at some point, but now that iPad Pros use USB-C I think Lightning would be phased out within a couple of years. It’s a good jack; fairly reliable and convenient but USB-C is more versatile and it’s already on the Macs.

Frankly I don’t miss TOSLink; I’ve used it but certainly not frequently. I’d guess that the vast majority of Mac owners aren’t even aware it was there. And as pointed out, there are simple plug-in solutions for the ones that need it, without sacrificing audio quality. It’s another relic of the past, like RS-232 or DVD or SD cards... and soon enough we’ll add USB-A to that pile.

 

[F-Train]

Remember that Apple designs for their vision, not your needs. Apple doesn't believe in ... high end sound.

Apple makes Logic Pro X, which is widely used in professional music composition and production.

On the consumer side, no general purpose computer supports “high end sound” (although Apple’s Core Audio has clear benefits). That’s why people who want high end sound purchase computer-audio interfaces.

TOSlink, compared to HDMI and USB-C, has limited bandwidth and is less versatile. Manufacturers generally, not just Apple, are dropping it. On a personal level, I can’t remember the last time that I used TOSlink. It would be many years ago. As @FreakinEurekan says, “it’s another relic of the past”.
[doublepost=1553347888][/doublepost]

Considering how they screwed up USB 2 audio on T2 Macs, you're probably right.

For the reasons stated in the above post, I believe that @saulinpa is way wide of the mark. USB 2.0 audio and T2 has nothing to do with this thread, so I’ll note only that there is significant disagreement about the issue.

 

[saulinpa]

Apple makes Logic Pro X, which is widely used in professional music composition and production.

On the consumer side, no general purpose computer supports “high end sound” (although Apple’s Core Audio has clear benefits). That’s why people who want high end sound purchase computer-audio interfaces.

As stated Logic Pro X is for composition and production; it's not meant to help getting any better sound out of a mini's built in speaker. Toslink gives an easy method to bypass the internal DAC but I guess that is too old tech.

 

[F-Train]

As stated Logic Pro X is for composition and production; it's not meant to help getting any better sound out of a mini's built in speaker. Toslink gives an easy method to bypass the internal DAC but I guess that is too old tech.

The internal digital to analogue converter is what it is. The only way to bypass it is with an external computer-audio interface. TOSlink is just a carrier. It does not bypass the internal converter and it does not improve the sound in any way. At this point, it is an inferior carrier and there is no reason to continue using it. That is why manufacturers, including Apple, are abandoning it.

You say that you want "high end sound". If you are serious, get a computer-audio interface, preferably at this point one with USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 ports, and forget about TOSlink.

 

[saulinpa]

The internal digital to analogue converter is what it is. The only way to bypass it is with an external computer-audio interface. TOSlink is just a carrier. It does not bypass the internal converter and it does not improve the sound in any way. At this point, it is an inferior carrier and there is no reason to continue using it. That is why manufacturers, including Apple, are abandoning it.

Toslink is digital so doesn't use any converter. The DAC is needed for the analog jack.

 

[F-Train]

Toslink is digital so doesn't use any converter. The DAC is needed for the analog jack.

The whole point is that TOSlink is just a carrier, and at this point an inferior carrier. Honestly, I think that you need to do some reading about how digital audio works. Your belief that Apple's abandonment of TOSlink means that it doesn't support "high end sound" is not just wrong, it means that you don't understand digital audio.

 

[saulinpa]

The whole point is that TOSlink is just a carrier, and at this point an inferior carrier. Honestly, I think that you need to do some reading about how digital audio works.

Please educate me as I am missing your point. Are you saying Toslink is not digital?

 

[F-Train]

Please educate me as I am missing your point. Are you saying Toslink is not digital?

I'm saying that TOSlink is a carrier. At some point in the chain, there has to be a digital to analogue converter, because without one you can't hear the audio. As a carrier, it is at this point inferior to other solutions. Your assertion that Apple has abandoned TOSlink because Apple won't support "high end sound" is not just wrong, it shows a failure to understand digital audio. The fact is, everybody is abandoning TOSlink.

At this point, I'm repeating myself, so this is my last post on this.

Cheers

 

[saulinpa]

I'm saying that TOSlink is a carrier. At some point in the chain, there has to be a digital to analogue converter, because without one you can't hear the audio. As a carrier, it is at this point inferior to other solutions. Your assertion that Apple has abandoned TOSlink because Apple won't support "high end sound" is not just wrong, it shows a failure to understand digital audio.

At this point, I'm repeating myself, so this is my last post on this.

Cheers

Repeating yourself since you didn't include the point?

I know you connect the Toslink to a DAC or to a receiver with one built in. If you think inferior is lack of support for 10+ channels without compression then yes, it is inferior. But that is not high end audio, that is special effects.

 

[dmg15]

It’s another relic of the past, like RS-232 or DVD or SD cards... and soon enough we’ll add USB-A to that pile.

I understand the need to phase things out, if they had completely ditched the 3.5mm jack i wouldn't have given it a second thought. But to keep the port there and just reduce its functionality, is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to buy an external interface to make my 2017 iMac do what my 2012 did without it.

 

[palebluedot]

I'm saying that TOSlink is a carrier. At some point in the chain, there has to be a digital to analogue converter, because without one you can't hear the audio. As a carrier, it is at this point inferior to other solutions. Your assertion that Apple has abandoned TOSlink because Apple won't support "high end sound" is not just wrong, it shows a failure to understand digital audio. The fact is, everybody is abandoning TOSlink.

At this point, I'm repeating myself, so this is my last post on this.

Cheers

You are missing an important (narrow use case), optical audio out into another PC or Mac. I passed my 2012 mini via optical audio to my Sound Blaster Z in my gaming PC and then ran all of my sound for both computers through a set of speakers and headphones. This is impossible with the new Mac Mini, I am relegated to 3.5mm line noise now because you are passing analog into a digital card then back to analog. Why remove optical at all if you have a standard jack?

Apple penny pinching, I guess.