TVOS 18 broke Top Shelf for TV app

[sjsharksfan12]

Me too.

What strikes me as very odd here is....

This is a very obvious bug - to anyone that has the TV app in the top shelf (which I would assume is most users?) - and to anyone who has chose to display 'up next'.

My question is.... what the hell were the beta testers playing at for the last 3 months??
I know that the 'developer beta' is mostly overrun with 'fake developers' who just want to use the beta software as early as possible for notoriety on Youtube and Twitter etc...
... but did NONE of them spot this glaring bug and not report it?
I could understand if it were something obscure but it isn't.

I also expect like most times we get iOS releases, that the 0.1 version is no more than a week away.

This is my biggest complaint about the whole concept of beta testing. It's just become a way to get the software early and brag about it online. I'm sure there are a lot of good testers who actually do the job, but it feels like with the main public release, more often than not, it's still in the testing stage. Like you said, the up next thing is one of the big features of the Apple TV, and this is a bug that you first notice when you are on the home screen. How was it missed, or was it intentional that it was missed?

 

[Edd70]

This is my biggest complaint about the whole concept of beta testing. It's just become a way to get the software early and brag about it online. I'm sure there are a lot of good testers who actually do the job, but it feels like with the main public release, more often than not, it's still in the testing stage. Like you said, the up next thing is one of the big features of the Apple TV, and this is a bug that you first notice when you are on the home screen. How was it missed, or was it intentional that it was missed?

I’d theorize that a bug like this is found during testing more often than not, but Apple determines it’s low priority, annoying a trivial number of users and they’ll get to when when they get to it.

 

[Dave_O]

Got a message from Apple Feedback that a server side update fixed it, no tvOS update needed. As others have said, restart fixed it on my 2 devices

 

[allonym]

Top Shelf Up Next is back on both my atv4K 1st & 3rd gen models, just had to perform a restart on them both first.

Thanks for the heads up. Fixed for me too now.

 

[Morac]

Thanks for the heads up. Fixed for me too now.

Same here. Apple must have fixed it on the server side.

 

[stocklen]

This is my biggest complaint about the whole concept of beta testing. It's just become a way to get the software early and brag about it online. I'm sure there are a lot of good testers who actually do the job, but it feels like with the main public release, more often than not, it's still in the testing stage. Like you said, the up next thing is one of the big features of the Apple TV, and this is a bug that you first notice when you are on the home screen. How was it missed, or was it intentional that it was missed?

I agree

Although slightly off topic its something thats always annoyed me.
I come from a background of professional software testing so I have a bit of experience on the subject.

The moment that the first developer beta of iOS is released the internet is awash with all kinds of ill informed nonsense varying from the harmless 'wooh look at me running iOSxx' to the downright damaging 'look at this bug that broke my phone'.
I guarantee you that not many of the YouTubers are genuine software developers and should not have an account and therefore should not be accessing such early betas.
Once the public betas are available then fine, its fair game but even then we seem to get a .0 release in September thats riddled with bugs so I fail to see what value 99% of the downloaders have added to the process given that most just care about social media prestige and probably put zero effort into performing actual testing and reporting bugs to Apple.

 

[sjsharksfan12]

It is working now, so that's good. I am glad they found it and fixed the problem, even though this is a quality control thing that should not have happened.

 

[bozzykid]

This is my biggest complaint about the whole concept of beta testing. It's just become a way to get the software early and brag about it online. I'm sure there are a lot of good testers who actually do the job, but it feels like with the main public release, more often than not, it's still in the testing stage. Like you said, the up next thing is one of the big features of the Apple TV, and this is a bug that you first notice when you are on the home screen. How was it missed, or was it intentional that it was missed?

This issue had nothing to do with the beta and was a server issue. No update was required to fix the top shelf. There was nothing for beta testers to report since it never happened during the beta.

 

[wlev]

Just chiming in to say I have this problem as well. I've tried multiple restarts and it hasn't fixed the issue. I am using an HD from 2016. This has kept me from updating my newer 4k so don't know if it will be the same.

 

[DarkOcean]

Yep, have an AppleTV HD version, tvOS 18 extremely buggy for it. Shows don't pick up latest episodes or keep up with episodes watched. The "Mark as Watched" feature with the pop-up hard press is very flaky if it works or not. Worst tvOS update I've ever experienced. Wish I could downgrade!

 

[lotones]

Yep, have an AppleTV HD version, tvOS 18 extremely buggy for it. Shows don't pick up latest episodes or keep up with episodes watched. The "Mark as Watched" feature with the pop-up hard press is very flaky if it works or not. Worst tvOS update I've ever experienced. Wish I could downgrade!

Have you tried settings>system>restart? The only time tvOS gets buggy for me is when I leave a bunch of apps open, or the ram needs to be reset (LOTS of streaming...like a full week, and lots of app usage). I also do a reset after every OS upgrade, just for good luck...

 

[stocklen]

Same thing different problem.

In the UK, it appears that shows added to up next from iPlayer show in up next on top shelf... but as soon as you go into the TV app they disappear.

How on earth can they show on top shelf's up next but not in the TV app itself?

Any ideas here?

 

[rumbletum]

Same thing different problem.

In the UK, it appears that shows added to up next from iPlayer show in up next on top shelf... but as soon as you go into the TV app they disappear.

How on earth can they show on top shelf's up next but not in the TV app itself?

Any ideas here?

No solution, but exactly the same issue here over the past week or so. Only with iPlayer as far as I can see.

 

[stocklen]

No solution, but exactly the same issue here over the past week or so. Only with iPlayer as far as I can see.

It does seem predominately an iPlayer issue but sadly as we in the UK know too well, iPlayer on the AppleTV gets very little attention from the Beeb.
It should be showing UHD content by now and it doesn't. Subtitles are also missing though they seem to manage it in the iOS version of iPlayer.

The TV app must be a nightmare to maintain given that its only as good as the metadata supplied by the streaming platforms and how iPlayer manages to lose items from top shelf in the same up next list as the app shows is baffling.

Lately ive had a host of shows on Channel 4 completely missing from up next. Although there are new episodes available if you go into the All4 app - they steadfastly refuse to show up in up next.

Metadata again.
Frustrating.

 

[-Gonzo-]

It should be showing UHD content by now and it doesn't. Subtitles are also missing though they seem to manage it in the iOS version of iPlayer.

The Apple TV doesn’t support DVB-DASH

A while back someone on Reddit posted a response from BBC iPlayer support regarding the lack of UHD.

"Thanks for getting back in touch.

Regarding a lack of UHD content on Apple TV, I can confirm that we do not offer UHD or 1080p resolution on the Apple TV platform because the platform does not support our standard TV video format (called DASH).
The Apple ecosystem uses a format called HLS which we don't encode to quite the same quality. Apple TV is the only connected TV device that does not use the standard version of iPlayer (the standard version is used by 97% of viewers using a connected TV device).
Apple have chosen to remain on a legacy version of iPlayer for Apple TV.
I would recommend checking if the UHD television your Apple TV is connected to has the iPlayer app. It if does, UHD content should be available."

There is also a Freedom of Information response regarding the lack of subtitles.

British Broadcasting Corporation Room BC2 A4 Broadcast Centre White City Wood Lane London W12 7TP Telephone 020 8008 2882 Email foi@bbc.co.uk

Information Rights bbc.co.uk/foi bbc.co.uk/privacy

Y. Khattab

request-686620-074f61b5@whatdotheyknow.com

22 September 2020

Dear Y. Khattab,

Freedom of Information Request - RFI20201271

Thank you for your request to the BBC of 21 August 2020 seeking the following information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (‘the Act’):

The help centre article "Why are there no subtitles on BBC iPlayer via Apple TV?" [2] states the following:

There are technical challenges associated with delivering subtitles to > Apple TV which will require a significantly different solution to that > which we use on all other platforms. We are working towards it but > don't currently have timelines associated with this support.
Could you please therefore provide a summary of the technical challenges faced in adopting the captioning framework made available in tvOS?

Below is a summary of the challenges associated with delivering subtitles to Apple TV:

Background

AppleTV for a long time supported only WebVTT subtitles, and the BBC does not support that format as it has significant limitations and is not compatible with the BBC Subtitle Guidelines. However, in recent years Apple have added support for the W3C’s “TTML Profiles for Internet Media Subtitles” format, usually abbreviated to “IMSC”. This is much closer to the BBC’s strategic format, EBU-TT-D (the two standards aren’t precisely the same, but it is possible to produce files that conform to both).

In-Stream versus sidecar

The big difference between Apple’s approach and the approach the BBC uses on all other platforms is how the subtitles are handled relative to the media. On all other platforms, we deliver the subtitles as a separate XML file (often called a “sidecar” file), but Apple require it to be more closely coupled with the media (specifically, referenced from the HLS manifest).

📷 📷 📷

One of the main reasons we keep the subtitles as a sidecar file is that it’s not unusual for subtitles to change after publication. In the case of a live programme, this may be to improve the synchronisation, or on any programme this may correct errors or mistakes in the subtitles. Keeping them as a sidecar file means that changing the subtitles is a quick and cheap operation, it doesn’t require expensive video processing on every edit.

Further work needs to be done to bind the subtitles into the media as per Apple’s request, in such a way that they can be referenced from the HLS manifest. We also need to minimise the processing time and cost associated with a subtitle change. There are a few options being investigated for doing this, but it may well need some bespoke work just for the AppleTV platform.

Packaging format

In addition to wanting subtitles in the IMSC format, Apple also impose some other requirements. This brings in some other complexities and dependencies:

1. ⁠⁠The BBC needs to upgrade its main on-demand packager to a newer version than we’re currently running. This takes a lot of testing, as it impacts BBC iPlayer on all platforms and devices, and we need to be sure it doesn’t cause any unwanted side- effects.
2. ⁠⁠We’d need to provide separate streams just for AppleTV. It will be the only TV device consuming media packaged in this way
3. ⁠⁠A review of compatibility across AppleTV hardware and tvOS needs to be completed

As you can see, there are a number of complexities involved in supporting the subtitle formats required by AppleTV. We are working through these complexities and do aim to support subtitles on AppleTV when this is possible.

Appeal Rights

If you are not satisfied that we have complied with the Act in responding to your request, you have the right to an internal review by a BBC senior manager or legal adviser. Please contact us at the address above, explaining what you would like us to review and including your reference number. A request for an internal review must be made within 40 working days of receiving the BBC’s response to your original request.

If you are not satisfied with the internal review, you can appeal to the Information Commissioner. The contact details are: Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF, Tel: 0303 123 1113 or see Information Commissioner's Office (ICO).

Yours sincerely

Information Rights

BBC Legal

 

[ianfieldhouse]

Yep, have an AppleTV HD version, tvOS 18 extremely buggy for it. Shows don't pick up latest episodes or keep up with episodes watched. The "Mark as Watched" feature with the pop-up hard press is very flaky if it works or not. Worst tvOS update I've ever experienced. Wish I could downgrade!

I'm getting this with both iPlayer and NowTV, shows show in Up Next and then disappear. Shows that don't disappear sometimes aren't connected to the app that they were added from and so you have to select the option to get the app to watch it, even though it's already installed. When you do this it asks you to connect the app to the Apple TV and then just hangs if you try to do so. Been like this ever since I upgraded to v18.0 and makes me realise how much I rely on the Up Next functionality.

Edit: Resetting the AppleTV has sorted this out. What a ballache!

 

[rumbletum]

Edit: Resetting the AppleTV has sorted this out. What a ballache!

Is this still fixed for you? When you say reset, do you mean a full factory reset of your Apple TV?

 

[ianfieldhouse]

Is this still fixed for you? When you say reset, do you mean a full factory reset of your Apple TV?

Nope.

There were two options, factory reset and one that was less dramatic (settings reset??) and so I took the less painful option. Everything worked fine for a little while then went back to the previous broken behaviour. I tried upgrading to the latest beta version prior to the 18.1 release and that never helped and neither has installing 18.1.

From reading posts on Reddit it looks like it it might just be an issue with the Apple TV HD and not the 4K. If I could establish that this was indeed the case and a 4K isn't impacted by this then that might be the push I need to finally upgrade.

 

[rumbletum]

Nope.

There were two options, factory reset and one that was less dramatic (settings reset??) and so I took the less painful option. Everything worked fine for a little while then went back to the previous broken behaviour. I tried upgrading to the latest beta version prior to the 18.1 release and that never helped and neither has installing 18.1.

From reading posts on Reddit it looks like it it might just be an issue with the Apple TV HD and not the 4K. If I could establish that this was indeed the case and a 4K isn't impacted by this then that might be the push I need to finally upgrade.

Thanks for coming back to me, hate to disappoint you though, but it’s a 4k model that I’m having the issues with.

I really don’t want to do a factory reset and have to sign in to everything again, but may be the last thing to attempt.

 

[ianfieldhouse]

Thanks for coming back to me, hate to disappoint you though, but it’s a 4k model that I’m having the issues with.

I really don’t want to do a factory reset and have to sign in to everything again, but may be the last thing to attempt.

That's good to know if somewhat depressing. I suppose if it's more widely an issue it's got a better chance of getting fixed though. I wouldn't bother with the reset if I was you and just hold on for the next point release and hope this gets sorted then. It does kind of defeat one of the main purposes of using the Apple TV when the Up Next functionality is broken, however.

 

[rumbletum]

That's good to know if somewhat depressing. I suppose if it's more widely an issue it's got a better chance of getting fixed though. I wouldn't bother with the reset if I was you and just hold on for the next point release and hope this gets sorted then. It does kind of defeat one of the main purposes of using the Apple TV when the Up Next functionality is broken, however.

Yes let’s hope it gets fixed. Will update in here if I notice any improvements or it gets worse

 

[rumbletum]

So, just to save you wasting your time. I gave in and did a factory reset and….. still got the same issue