yeah that's the problem with enshrining one connector to rule them all in law. Innovation on cables/connectors (which is how we got to usb-c in the first place) will be stifled. Glad they didn't decide to make this decision around the time USB mini was the best cable around.
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UK Considers Adopting USB-C as Common Charging Standard
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The point is to not have to have 5 different cables for one device depending on use (charge, data, display). So now to charge your phone you need 2 cables?
I like the idea of standardization, but not when a given technology is in the middle of its life cycle. The USB-C connector, by current form factor standards, is actually "big" and "thick" and is already becoming a limiting factor in device form factor, effectiveness (and complexity of) water/dust resilience, etc. It has room to grow in terms of bandwidth, signal, and pins, yes, a whole lot, but the time for this was quite literally 10 years ago (perhaps with a phased mandate with a lifecycle expiration), not now, when by the time it goes into effect, the main result will be just to hold back progress with questionable economic or environmental or consume pay off.
The world should just standardize on US plugs.Although I like standardizing cables, why never do the same for the plugs ever? If they standardized plug types world wide, the cables would less relevant. Cable technology and shapes change more frequently than plug types. At least keep a common plug type all throughout EU and UK if every other region too stubborn.
Plug & socket types
www.worldstandards.eu
They're safer.
No, not electrically safer, FOOT safer. Those idiotic UK plugs are DANGEROUS if they're left on the floor and somebody steps on them, they'll go right through your foot. Stepping on a US plug doesn't feel good, but it's not going to do permanent damage like the UK nightmare fuel.
Electrically they're fine, especially considering that we use safer 120V for most of our electrical connections, the rest of the world should follow our lead on that. And what loony thought 50Hz was a good idea? Fix that, EU.
As a concession to the EU, we should adopt the EU CCS2 connector worldwide. It's got the extra pin for 3-phase AC (which is incredibly common at businesses in the US) and can handle the same DC charging as CCS1. And we should ban the proprietary Turdla connector.
People seem to be assuming that this means we're going to be inventing a Great British Charger that is gratuitously different from USB-C (I think the plug would have to be exactly 2/8" wide by 2mm thick to properly reflect UK measurement practices) - of course that would be ludicrous.
I think we all agree that we are talking about USB-C and not some assumed other new port.
I would be interested which products would be affected by this UK legislation that are not already converted to USB-C or in the process of moving there.
I don't think there will be much of the non-standard manufacturing left if all the big players are designing exclusively for USB-C. The UK (and other small countries) will basically benefit from the EU legislation without fighting the fight. And that's ok. However, they shouldn't try to sell the benefits as result of their own politics.
Plugs, keyboard layouts and country-specific packaging are typical i18n issues that exist worldwide and require solutions no matter what the UK does. Products are designed for flexibility in these aspects that means it will be cheap to produce a special variation with a different plug, layout or packaging.
In other words, it doesn't really matter for a worldwide product if the UK plug exists or not. The product is already designed with that in mind, and adding yet another plug to the other 4 or 5 isn't a big deal.
I think the regulation focuses rightfully to newly built (and sold) products. IMO we shouldn't mandate retrofitting existing products because a. there are simple workarounds like different cables, b. over the years the old parts will be replaced and eventually disappear anyway
Depends if you like electrical shorts and things catching fire.
Massive generalisation, sure, but a lot of the cheap chargers are dodgy as hell. ESPECIALLY folding ones... There are youTube teardowns on how shoddy they are. Poorly made and actually chuck out dirty spiking power.
Don't believe those CE marks either. They print them on there without any certs and get away with it as they are spaced differently and claim it means Chinese Electronics.
I am happy to pay the £19... but I do wish they made a dual USB-C one in that UK folding form factor.
GOOD.
We've finally got a connector that's good enough to go to the 2060s and beyond. It's well beyond time to eliminate proprietary connectors in EVERYTHING.
I think that's a very cheap rhetorical trick to make me sound bad and I can't accept it.
I said those poor countries are irrelevant... in the specific context of justifying the production of $30K custom cars of some kinds. Because they are, and I mentioned proof of that (the many right-hand cars that are exclusively sold in the UK). If you don't complete the sentence on purpose, it's just to twist my words into "look at this guy who thinks poor people are irrelevant". As if I think that in absolute terms, not just relatively to some specific segments of the car market. Saying "dogs are irrelevant for italian cuisine" and "dogs are irrelevant" have two completely different meanings. Just like saying "poor countries are irrelevant when we talk about some expensive right-hand cars" and "poor countries are irrelevant" have two completely different meanings.
Just to let you know, I can't afford a $30K car, so I'm also irrelevant for that market. Do you think you could say I also think I'm irrelevant?
What I meant, of course, is just that, I repeat, some very expensive and complex modifications are made to some products just because the UK market requires it. This is my whole point, which I believe to be unquestionable. This is what I meant and it was very clear for the beginning. Taking my previous example, Ford modified their Fiesta exclusively to sell it in the UK market. Can we agree this means those other billions of people were irrelevant for that decision by Ford, including the people who live there who can afford it and the potential growth you mentioned? I don't know how to explain it better than this.
"The data is definitely not misleading. In fact that market is actually 2.5B and therefore ludicrously bigger than the UK. Do you really think the UK would get specially engineered high tech products for their mere 66M people?"
Please, read again what I wrote. I said many right-hand drive cars are made just because the UK market wants them. You can google that. And most of that population, as I explained, is not considered by manufacturers when they make right-hand cars for England.
This is clear proof that, even if the UK was the only place with right-hand drive, manufactures would still make custom cars just for them. They don't even sell them anywhere else in many cases. And in most other (like the Fiat 500) the UK is still by far the most relevant market to justify the production. Is it clear now?
By mentioning those other people, you made it sound as if, if it was just for England, manufactures wouldn't make right-hand cars. That's obviously not the case. No doubt about it.
And, just like complex modifications are made to cars exclusively for the UK market (66M people with lots of money), they would probably be made to phones if the government required it. If the UK on its own went for mandatory USB-C, I'm not sure if Apple would have complied but I think it wouldn't have been so absurd. Not more absurd that just giving up millions of customers. And some other manufacturers surely would have.
Yep. I’ll gladly buy a charger from Apple. A fire would cost me more in damages. You don’t cheap out with electrical equipment.
USB-C being the required interface plug in 2040 could be a problem.
Think about the 5-15 plug. It was standardized in the US in 1935. It was already in relatively heavy usage prior to that. There are very few things (especially in electronics) that have not be improved in 90 years. But, here we are with a plug that is an absolute pain in the ass to plug in behind a couch or dresser with limited access (which is wear you usually find outlets). It can only be used in a single orientation. It is neither locking nor quick release. It presents exposed charged metal during connection. etc...
There have been numerous other methods and form factors devised over the years to connect power to a device, some of those have been far easier and safer to use. Non of them have replaced the 5-15 as the required power interface for residential and light commercial work in the US.
Now, had the US not standardized on the 5-15. It is certainly possible we'd have a massive collection of adapters and converters. It also entirely likely we'd have a safer and easier to use (more or less) ubiquitous plug.
But, if we consider interfaces that have never been standardized by government fiat, then we don't necessarily see a massive problem.
For example, HDMI. Yes, there are adapters that are necessary for some situations. But for the most part that is a non-issue for most people in most circumstances. Also, consider USB-A, it was never established as a required standard, but it is one of the most ubiquitous interfaces in use in the world today. It was already (prior to government mandates) being replaced after a relatively short life of less than 30 years by a better option (USB-C), which is already 10 years old. If the forced standardization had not occurred, we could have gotten USB-D in the next few years, but we may never see that now.
I for one don't mind having to worry about format changes from time to time. 5 1/4 floppy was replaced by 3.5, 8 tracks were replaced by cassettes which were replaced by CDs, RCA gave way to HDMI, HDMI might get replaced by USB-C at some point, Serial was replaced by USB, SCSI blipped for moment but is mostly irrelevant in the consumer world. Formats come and go, for the most part, end users are well served by this process.
The idea that standardizing on USB-C is going to save 10s of thousands of tons of "e-waste" is naïvely optimistic. It doesn't address the reason people are collecting cables and chargers. Given that almost all small device chargers prior to 2015 were USB-A chargers (even Apple's lighting) and we still had drawers full of bricks means the problem isn't standardization. One of the problems is chargers and cables are so cheap that there is no reason for an average consumer to have less than a draw full. Another, people are pissed off when a device doesn't come with a charger and cable, so most devices do. A year later we get rid of the device, but not the charger or cable. So, it goes into the drawer. Then at some point, we get feed up with the mess that is the "cable drawer" and we through out a bunch we don't need anymore (including some of the USB-C), then we start buying them back because we actually still need them. Oh, we also get them as gifts, constantly.
If the objective is to reduce waste, the governments would require that chargers and cables be sold separately, they'd ban cheap imports, and they'd tax chargers and cables like cigarettes or alcohol (we call it a "sin tax" in the US) in order to decrease demand. But these are all things that would annoy consumers, so they won't do that. This is performative governance, it is them saying, "Hey look at us doing something good and important, but don't worry, you won't have to change your behavior at all", when it is exactly that behavior that is causing the e-waste.
So, is using USB-C in 2040 a problem. Not in the grand scheme of things. It's not a problem like corruption in government (or incompetence for that matter), aggressive policing, human trafficking, or genocidal regimes. It is a potential source of annoyance for a group of people who already enjoy more comfort and convenience than most humans in history could have ever imagined.
They are just dressing the cloak of being more millionaire / shareholder friendlier and let the EU take the heat of unpopularity. When companies innovate to meet the EU regulations ... then they change their own regulation. It's done anyway so we might as well ... - "hey its not our fault"
PS: The US does the same to some degree when it comes to regulating tech.
I wonder if discussions like this will make it less likely that we'll ever get something beyond USB-C... perhaps USB-D or whatever.
Remember... people complained when Apple switched from Lightning to USB-C. But that was just one company.
Imagine if nearly every product on Earth is using USB-C today... and then here comes USB-D or something else.
Yikes...
Remember... people complained when Apple switched from Lightning to USB-C. But that was just one company.
Imagine if nearly every product on Earth is using USB-C today... and then here comes USB-D or something else.
Yikes...
The EU directive was aimed purely at Apple, there are still 1000's of peripheral electronic devises using Micro USB and also power brick connections aren't standardised. Then there are loads of different standards USB - C cables, like anything the EU introduces, it ends up being badly implemented and more costly to the consumer!
The UK government has launched a consultation to explore the possibility of mandating USB-C as the standard charging port for electronic devices, potentially aligning with similar regulations recently adopted by the European Union.
The Office for Product Safety and Standards, part of the Department for Business and Trade, is seeking input from manufacturers, importers, distributors, and trade associations on the potential benefits and challenges of implementing a common charging standard across the UK.
This move comes after the EU passed legislation in 2022 requiring most portable electronic devices to use USB-C for charging by December 2024. The EU's decision aimed to reduce electronic waste and improve charger interoperability.
The UK government, which previously stated it was not considering similar rules, is now exploring whether adopting USB-C as a standard would benefit businesses, consumers, and the environment. The consultation will run for eight weeks, ending on December 4, 2024.
Key points under consideration include:
The government acknowledges that many manufacturers of smartphones, tablets, cameras, headphones, and laptops have already adopted USB-C for the UK market voluntarily to avoid supply chain complexities. For example, Apple, which long resisted changing its proprietary Lightning port, adopted USB-C for new iPhones last year, while the last few Lightning products are likely to make the transition next year. However, the government says it seeks to understand the implications of formally implementing such requirements.
- Standardizing USB-C as the common charging port
- Implementing harmonized fast-charging technology
- Allowing consumers to purchase devices without chargers
- Introducing labeling requirements for charging information
Notably, the new iPad mini, announced on Tuesday, will not include a charger in the box for several European countries, including the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the Netherlands. The change is likely in response to EU regulations regarding electronic waste, but even some European countries that are not part of the EU are impacted.
Article Link: UK Considers Adopting USB-C as Common Charging Standard
What should it be? If a manufacturer has a high speed charging capability, perhaps proprietary (which is allowed via the USB spec), is that what they should state as the standard charger for their device? Should it be the minimum spec that will charge? Some standard PD?
Finally, how do yo control what is a high quality plug. Just because a plug may claim to be doesn't mean it is, especially the cheaper ones.
Taking out of VAT would be one solution, is the government willing to forgo that money? Most, once they get the tax money, never give it up.
USB-C is a plug standard, Thunderbolt a cable capablity standard. That's one problem with specifying USB-C as the standard, people think one cable can know do everything, when the reality is one cable may only charge, another only do data, etc.
That is one advantage of the US model, for most plans, since roaming charges disappeared long ago, along with per text charges, charges for incoming calls, roaming caps, as well as surcharges to call cell numbers.
Of course, it is a government phenomena not restricted by geography. And for all the whining and complaining, companies use regulations to increase barriers to entry and protect their interests.
The EU regulations specifically address revisiting requirements as the tech changes. Wireless is next on the agenda, IIRC.
It's never been in our best interest to be part of the EU, it's the most corrupt institution in the world!
Brexit hasn't been implemented properly in the UK by pro EU bureaucrats, on purpose!
Which is why statistically the UK has the least electrical fires, can something be really over engineered and expensive, when saving lives & property is at stake?
and they probs spends hundreds of thousands in the process, the UK is shambles lol
Also the Lizi line has USB A installed a few months ago!! the annoyance!
The EU directive is completely irrelevant in the UK. The UK can chart its own course.
My hope is that the UK won't bother with the simple USB-C standard, and instead require USB-PD over USB-C. After all, that is what consumers actually need. The EU standard simply wasn't specific enough, requiring a specific phsyical connector without any protocol definition.
The private sector has to compete with each other, so they make operational and product choices that support their position in that reality. The "government" doesn't compete with anyone, so you'd think they could create regulation and/or legislation that has a real (not theoretical or potential) impact on consumer protections and the environment.
But, alas that is not how government is put together. Politicians have to compete. So, if there is a problem that can be used to leverage support there is no incentive to solve that problem (cause then it can't be used anymore). There is no incentive to make tough regulations that can actually impact change, because that change will inconvenience or potentially make things more expensive for constituents, which means the politician might loose power and/or there job.
It is not accurate to describe any government as an institution that is not servicing its "bottom line". I prefer the transparency of motivation we have with corporations over the shrouded interest of politicians. It is usually pretty safe to assume that a company is making choices that serve their financial best interest, so it is easy to judge their actions with that information. Politicians operate in a performative manner that expresses itself as "being for the good of all", but we know they serve specific ("special") interests, we just don't always know which ones, so it makes judging their behaviors much more complex and difficult. I trust the average CIO to be more honest than the average elected official, if for no other reason, the average CIO doesn't have the same incentive to lie, in many situations it is actually illegal for them to lie. Politicians must pretend to be community focused while in some cases actively working against the community or at least some portion of it. But, they can't be honest about that because they need a substantial portion of the community to support them. In most cases they are free to lie as much as they want (it's more or less expected).
What an excellent list! I would like to add USB-PD with USB 2.0, which is the cable that comes with iPads. I recently learned that this is not the same as Type 1 or Type 2. To be honest, I have only seen Type 1 cables connected directly to a power adapter (for example, for the new Nokia 3210). I have never seen a Type 2 cable. However, I believe it must exist. The specifications state that it only needs 900mA with 5V. I think these cables are not suitable for the modern world.
**Edit:** I have also observed adapters with cables attached without USB-PD support. The only adapter I have seen that supports 900mA/5V is the one I mentioned earlier. This device requires no CC wire.
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