UK Probe Into Apple's Mobile Browser Restrictions Shut Down After Apple Argues Regulators Waited Too Long to Open Investigation

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

That’s the point, there is no competition to harm as there are no competing operating systems!

There is, they can harm competition in other verticals. The Spotify case is an example of this.

Spotifys main complaint being that Apple were using their app review process to dictate how they comunicated with their own customers and became increasingly agressive in rejecting their submissions once they had launched a competing product (Apple Music).

The crux of this case in the UK was that Apple and Google were obstructing cloud gaming services. This is problematic as they have (had in the case of Google Stadia) services that could be considered competitive.

 

[mrochester]

There is, they can harm competition in other verticals. The Spotify case is an example of this.

Spotifys main complaint being that Apple were using their app review process to dictate how they comunicated with their own customers and became increasingly agressive in rejecting their submissions once they had launched a competing product (Apple Music).

The crux of this case in the UK was that Apple and Google were obstructing cloud gaming services. This is problematic as they have (had in the case of Google Stadia) services that could be considered competitive.

So if Spotify were able to target consumers across 5 different operating systems and 5 different ecosystems, Apple would not have that power. And consumers would have far more choice.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

So if Spotify were able to target consumers across 5 different operating systems and 5 different ecosystems, Apple would not have that power. And consumers would have far more choice.

Yeah but there isn't room in the market for five different operating systems. Exactly why Microsoft failed with Windows Phone.

 

[mrochester]

Yeah but there isn't room in the market for five different operating systems. Exactly why Microsoft failed with Windows Phone.

So let’s create some regulations to force it to happen. The job that the regulators are supposed to do.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

So let’s create some regulations to force it to happen. The job that the regulators are supposed to do.

How do they go about that? You have to be careful that you aren't just punishing companies for being successful.

I'm not in favour punishing Apple/Google because they have created market leading businesses in the mobile space, I just don't think they should be allowed to use the dominance of those businesses to hurt competition in other markets like music streaming or gaming.

 

[mrochester]

How do they go about that? You have to be careful that you aren't just punishing companies for being successful.

I'm not in favour punishing Apple/Google because they have created market leading businesses in the mobile space, I just don't think they should be allowed to use the dominance of those businesses to hurt competition in other markets like music streaming or gaming.

An easy one would be to regulate that smartphone manufacturers must make their own OS, or something like that. That way we’d have Samsung OS, Sony OS, iOS, android, Oppo OS, etc etc.

 

[Stiksi]

An easy one would be to regulate that smartphone manufacturers must make their own OS, or something like that. That way we’d have Samsung OS, Sony OS, iOS, android, Oppo OS, etc etc.

Then we would probably end up with two smartphone manufacturers. I think what the EU is doing is the right direction – slapping down the excesses when the two big ones get way out of line and slowly chip away at the unnecessary walls of the garden.

Apple is correct that regulators are reacting too late, just not by months. This should have been regulated ten years ago, but the regulatory bodies move at a glacial pace compared to the private sector and are reactionary by definition.

There are no perfect solutions to this but advocating for transparency in political lobbying would be a good start. That way you at least find out who’s been bought by who. Maybe it could lead to some regulations on political donations down the line, which could decrease the appeal for politicians to cash out. It’s a long road to accountability.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

An easy one would be to regulate that smartphone manufacturers must make their own OS, or something like that. That way we’d have Samsung OS, Sony OS, iOS, android, Oppo OS, etc etc.

I think that would just preclude many from entering the market.

It will always get whittled down simply because developers don't want to have to support five platforms so they will graviate towards the ones with the most users and the smaller ones will get squeezed out due to lack of app support.

This was essentially what happened to Microsoft. They were late to the market and a lot of consumers had picked their OS of choice, all of the app development went iOS and then Android and they struggled to get software support for Windows Phone platform. The userbase they were able to pull eventually left for iPhone or Android.

 

[mrochester]

I think that would just preclude many from entering the market.

It will always get whittled down simply because developers don't want to have to support five platforms so they will graviate towards the ones with the most users and the smaller ones will get squeezed out due to lack of app support.

This was essentially what happened to Microsoft. They were late to the market and a lot of consumers had picked their OS of choice, all of the app development went iOS and then Android and they struggled to get software support for Windows Phone platform. The userbase they were able to pull eventually left for iPhone or Android.

I thought developers want more competition?

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

I thought developers want more competition?

I don't think most of them are looking to compete with Google or Apple in terms or hardware or operating systems.

They want to be able to compete in a market and not have Apple or Googles service crush them because they get preferential treatment on iOS and Android.

 

[mrochester]

I don't think most of them are looking to compete with Google or Apple in terms or hardware or operating systems.

They want to be able to compete in a market and not have Apple or Googles service crush them because they get preferential treatment on iOS and Android.

No, I thought developers wanted more platforms to target to minimise google and apples duopoly power.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

No, I thought developers wanted more platforms to target to minimise google and apples duopoly power.

I haven't seen any notable developers calling for more platforms. I have seen them calling for Apple and Googles market power to be curbed by regulators.

 

[mrochester]

I haven't seen any notable developers calling for more platforms. I have seen them calling for Apple and Googles market power to be curbed by regulators.

But I thought they wanted that because they think google and apple have too much power?

You can’t think google and apple have too much power, but also not want more competition to diminish that power!

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

But I thought they wanted that because they think google and apple have too much power?

You can’t think google and apple have too much power, but also not want more competition to diminish that power!

I think you are just deliberately missing the point tbh.

 

[mrochester]

I think you are just deliberately missing the point tbh.

No? If apple and google have too much power the solution is to increase the competition.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

No? If apple and google have too much power the solution is to increase the competition.

Nah, fantasy 'solutions' where every hardware vendor is forced to build their own OS because Apple have got some very problematic business practices is exactly that. Fantasy.

The solution is just to regulate them and that is exactly what will happen.

 

[mrochester]

Nah, fantasy 'solutions' where every hardware vendor is forced to build their own OS because Apple have got some very problematic business practices is exactly that. Fantasy.

The solution is just to regulate them and that is exactly what will happen.

That won’t increase competition, we’ll *still* just have iOS and Android and no one will be any better off.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

That won’t increase competition.

No situation where Apple can lock the browser down so cloud gaming services can't compete with their gaming service.

No forcing people to create native apps because the browser is crippled and they asking for their 30%.

Of course it will

 

[mrochester]

No situation where Apple can lock the browser down so cloud gaming services can't compete with their gaming service.

No forcing people to create native apps because the browser is crippled and they asking for their 30%.

Of course it will

Developers can do all those things already if they want.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Developers can do all those things already if they want.

But the App Store rules forbid MS from putting their cloud gaming service out as a native app because..

The App Store was created to be a safe and trusted place for customers to discover and download apps, and a great business opportunity for all developers. Before they go on our store, all apps are reviewed against the same set of guidelines that are intended to protect customers and provide a fair and level playing field to developers.
Our customers enjoy great apps and games from millions of developers, and gaming services can absolutely launch on the App Store as long as they follow the same set of guidelines applicable to all developers, including submitting games individually for review, and appearing in charts and search. In addition to the App Store, developers can choose to reach all iPhone and iPad users over the web through Safari and other browsers on the App Store.

Which is meaningless PR drivel. Why don't they require Netflix to submit every show and movie as an individual app for review? There is no 'fair and level playing field to developers'

Arbitary nonsense. Exactly why regulators are looking at it.

Link to the verge article where the quote came from.

 

[mrochester]

But the App Store rules forbid MS from putting their cloud gaming service out as a native app because..



Which is meaningless PR drivel. Why don't they require Netflix to submit every show and movie as an individual app for review? There is no 'fair and level playing field to developers'

Arbitary nonsense. Exactly why regulators are looking at it.

Link to the verge article where the quote came from.

That won’t change…

What MS needs are more competitors at the OS and ecosystem level so that consumers are spread amongst a diverse range of platforms so that they can plain ignore iOS if they don’t like Apple’s terms.

Funny how that is always the solution.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

That won’t change…

What MS needs are more competitors at the OS and ecosystem level so that consumers are spread amongst a diverse range of platforms so that they can plain ignore iOS if they don’t like Apple’s terms.

Funny how that is always the solution.

It's impossible in mobile for all of the reasons myself and @Stiksi have already stated in this thread.

When Microsoft, currently the second most valuable company in the world, and Samsung decide they can't compete with their own OS it should tell you all you need to know about how entrenched the current incumbents are.

 

[Tagbert]

That won’t increase competition, we’ll *still* just have iOS and Android and no one will be any better off.

The problem is that it can be very hard to regulate an industry to increase competition. Simple sounding solutions can have counterintuitive results. The idea of forcing each phone manufacturer to make their own OS is likely to just end up with fewer phone manufacturers reducing competition in the hardware space.

 

[mrochester]

It's impossible in mobile for all of the reasons myself and @Stiksi have already stated in this thread.

When Microsoft, currently the second most valuable company in the world, and Samsung decide they can't compete with their own OS it should tell you all you need to know about how entrenched the current incumbents are.

Then we need regulations to enforce more competition at this level.

 

[mrochester]

The problem is that it can be very hard to regulate an industry to increase competition. Simple sounding solutions can have counterintuitive results. The idea of forcing each phone manufacturer to make their own OS is likely to just end up with fewer phone manufacturers reducing competition in the hardware space.

We don’t seem to be bothered about the counterintuitive results of the regulations that have been proposed so far, so I don’t think that should be a concern.