Umm Macbook Pro... Same old design?

[mustard]

Sorry mustard... wrong on those counts. IBM notebooks - if that's what you're talking about - have very high retention value in tough work environments. Corporations source them almost exclusively for their durability, performance, and lightweight. I've owned and used one and can speak from personal experience, not just reading reviews.

I have worked in the computer industry (hardware assembly & repair) for a couple years now and have had no real problems with the durability of ThinkPads (with the exception of the power cord - I have soldered many).

The thing is that all things come at a premium be it cost, duribility, or quality of software. I am sure that Apple with enough money could incoporate any feature ever fathomed - but at what cost. The weight may not be the big deal for 99.9% of consumers or Apple for that matter but what affects that same 99.9% and Apple is the cost of incorperating said niceties (production, R&D, exc all help to add cost to the consumer or cut into Apple's margins)

 

[djbahdow01]

Umm do you really want it to look like every other PC/Windows laptop??? Removable stuff, Windows, etc.

Dual dvi output, and two button touch pad would be nice, but give it time, remember this is Rev A and Apple will make changes, again, you may not like them but they should be for the better.

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

 

[ozone]

I have worked in the computer industry (hardware assembly & repair) for a couple years now and have had no real problems with the durability of ThinkPads (with the exception of the power cord - I have soldered many).

The thing is that all things come at a premium be it cost, duribility, or quality of software. I am sure that Apple with enough money could incoporate any feature ever fathomed - but at what cost. The weight may not be the big deal for 99.9% of consumers or Apple for that matter but what affects that same 99.9% and Apple is the cost of incorperating said niceties (production, R&D, exc all help to add cost to the consumer or cut into Apple's margins)

Well, that is true: nothing comes without a price! I'm a little confused though at the situation you present. Some of the features that MacTruck want, such as a removable HDD or docking connectors, seem to be pretty standard features on numerous PC laptops. Given that Apple's moved to industry-standard components for many things, how would taking advantage of readily available technology add so significantly to the cost? I suppose that the redesign of the case and internal chassis would be a one (or two) time expenditure of resources, but surely once done, the template and process could then be streamlined and replicated for mass production.

It's just also strikes me as inane when you have to open up the literal guts of a current PB to change the HDD for example, when it's so readily accessible on so many other computers and quite a straight-forward, user serviceable activity.

 

[mustard]

Well, that is true: nothing comes without a price! I'm a little confused though at the situation you present. Some of the features that MacTruck want, such as a removable HDD or docking connectors, seem to be pretty standard features on numerous PC laptops. Given that Apple's moved to industry-standard components for many things, how would taking advantage of readily available technology add so significantly to the cost? I suppose that the redesign of the case and internal chassis would be a one (or two) time expenditure of resources, but surely once done, the template and process could then be streamlined and replicated for mass production.

It's just also strikes me as inane when you have to open up the literal guts of a current PB to change the HDD for example, when it's so readily accessible on so many other computers and quite a straight-forward, user serviceable activity.

R&D costs aside how adventageous is it to go with the norm, there are many "standard" features that are incorporated in both desktops and laptops on the Window/PC side of things - parallel, serial, & PS2 ports. They have been standardized for years on the PC side and even PC manuafaturers are slowly pulling away from the norm due to the mass consumers needs.

Just because the technology is available doesn't mean that it is relevant from a financial standpoint for a business - how many additional computers would Apple sell solely on the fact that it has removable drive bays and at what additional pre-sale cost to Apple?

I do agree with the difficulties experienced changing a HDD on a PowerBook - but how often is that necessary for the average user to attempt let alone repeatedly.

 

[MacTruck]

R&D costs aside how adventageous is it to go with the norm, there are many "standard" features that are incorporated in both desktops and laptops on the Window/PC side of things - parallel, serial, & PS2 ports. They have been standardized for years on the PC side and even PC manuafaturers are slowly pulling away from the norm due to the mass consumers needs.

Just because the technology is available doesn't mean that it is relevant from a financial standpoint for a business - how many additional computers would Apple sell solely on the fact that it has removable drive bays and at what additional pre-sale cost to Apple?

I do agree with the difficulties experienced changing a HDD on a PowerBook - but how often is that necessary for the average user to attempt let alone repeatedly.

OMFG! HOW DID THEY DO IT? How did they get all that stuff (removable stuff) into that notebook for that price? Its not possible. no no no no no.

YES!


IBM Thinkpad $1799
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8797724&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840


And that is not the cheapest one they sell. Get real mustard.

 

[mustard]

OMFG! HOW DID THEY DO IT? How did they get all that stuff (removable stuff) into that notebook for that price? Its not possible. no no no no no.

YES!


IBM Thinkpad $1799
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8797724&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840


And that is not the cheapest one they sell. Get real mustard.

Is it just me or have us Mac users not became accustom to the price differences between Apple computers and the beige box companies out there. Aesthetics aside the volume of business they are able to achieve is directly proportional to the price in which they can sell the machine. IBM has found a market that is screaming for docks and removable this and that but how big of a draw is it for a company that is not dealing with large corporations in regards to laptops. Apple has seen where removable drives is appropriate to a majority of there target audience and that is the xServe/xRaid line of systems that for a majority are marketed towards a totally different cliental than a PowerBook/macBook. Simply put look at the percentage breakdowns of who are buying the ThinkPads compared to who are buying the PowerMacs - Companies with needs and a few consumers VS consumers and companies with out those needs. If it was needed there would be more of an outcry for it from there users.

I think a poll should be formed to see the real need from PowerBook users and potential customers (no need, would like, have to have, wouldn't want, no opinion).

 

[law guy]

I am supprised that Acer & HP beat Dell to the ouch though (not that I am a fan of Dell) After seeing the HP that woudl have been the ideal macBook - great specks and .1lbs lighter

Dell's on board as well with the 2.0 GHz Duo option, here's the 17" config page: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=19&kc=ref&oc=ie1705s1

 

[puckhead193]

i think apple will re-design it, i think they just wanted to get the ban -wagon started...

 

[emaja]

OMFG! HOW DID THEY DO IT? How did they get all that stuff (removable stuff) into that notebook for that price? Its not possible. no no no no no.

YES!


IBM Thinkpad $1799
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8797724&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840


And that is not the cheapest one they sell. Get real mustard.

With a single core Centrino, 64MB VRAM, X300 GPU and slower FSB and RAM at that.

Apple costs more. So what?

 

[MacTruck]

With a single core Centrino, 64MB VRAM, X300 GPU and slower FSB and RAM at that.

Apple costs more. So what?

I knew someone would say that. Go check out the $2500 model then.

 

[BENJMNS]

Umm do you really want it to look like every other PC/Windows laptop???

well, apple took a huge step in that direction today did they not? and they need sales so it's gotta work well. consumers must buy in and i think they will.

let me say that i'm a fan of PC notebooks as well. Vista looks fantastic and i'm sure it'll perform very well in the consumer and enterprise space. that's my bet. XP look and feel is a bit long in the tooth.

as for the thinkpads.. i will say that i'd have more confidence in the durability/reliability of a new thinkpad than carrying around a new powerbook. the aluminum looks slick, but durable it is not. it's got its own set of flaws and i've gone thru several brand new 17" and 15" units recently. thinkpad is a nice looking, performing, solid enterprise machine.

 

[MacTruck]

as for the thinkpads.. i will say that i'd have more confidence in the durability/reliability of a new thinkpad than carrying around a new powerbook. the aluminum looks slick, but durable it is not. it's got its own set of flaws and i've gone thru several brand new 17" and 15" units recently. thinkpad is a nice looking, performing, solid enterprise machine.

Every PC laptop I have ever had has been a thinkpad and I have had about 10 of them now and I can tell you I have NEVER had a problem with a new thinkpad. Those things are solid as rocks (not the weight) and have 3yr warranties which is great.

 

[LethalWolfe]

no, no and no. Sorry. Why don't you just go look at the lenovo site and check out specs ok. LOL!

I looked at all the 15" T43 and T42 models (like the one you linked to) and they all weigh more than the MacBook if you have the optical drive installed. If you remove the optical drive from the IBM then some of them weigh less than the MacBook.


Lethal

 

[MacTruck]

I looked at all the 15" T43 and T42 models (like the one you linked to) and they all weigh more than the MacBook if you have the optical drive installed. If you remove the optical drive from the IBM then some of them weigh less than the MacBook.


Lethal

Yeah, that .3 ounces is the:

- fingerprint reader
- 1 Type I/II and 1 ExpressCard/54 or 34
- 56K V.92 designed modem
- Docking/Port Replicator
- Parallel Port
- S-video out port

 

[LethalWolfe]

Yeah, that .3 ounces is the:

- fingerprint reader
- 1 Type I/II and 1 ExpressCard/54 or 34
- 56K V.92 designed modem
- Docking/Port Replicator
- Parallel Port
- S-video out port

I couldn't find the T42p on the lenovo sight, but the T43 you linked to is 5.91lbs w/o optical drive. I'd say that's a tad more than .3 ounces than the 5.6lbs of the MacBook.



Lethal

 

[MacTruck]

I couldn't find the T42p on the lenovo sight, but the T43 you linked to is 5.91lbs w/o optical drive. I'd say that's a tad more than .3 ounces than the 5.6lbs of the MacBook.



Lethal

Oops .3lbs. Point still made.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Oops .3lbs. Point still made.

Point still made that the Thinkpads are heavier? I agree.
That finger print reader looks cool though. Is it actually useful or just kinda like a novelty?


Lethal

 

[MacTruck]

Point still made that the Thinkpads are heavier? I agree.
That finger print reader looks cool though. Is it actually useful or just kinda like a novelty?


Lethal

Yeah it is very useful and the unit weighs exactly .3lbs.

 

[Leareth]

Hmm
Mactruck you seem to find the Thinkpad to be the best computer so why don't you use it then instead of complaining the the new apple laptop is not like it.
Apple looks at what the majority of consumers want and need in their computers not the needs or wants of a few.

I can replace my battery easily in fact I carry a spare in my backpack with out turning my PB off.
And my hard drive was not that hard to replace either, In fact it took me less than 15 min to put in. If I need more space that is what external drives are for, whether they be small flash drives from 16mb- 8gb or hard drive based ones.
Plus the average user is not going to need to replace the HD, and if they do they can be like those guys who get their ram installed by a apple tech.

I like the design of the PB or MacBook, its sleek, clean and sexy.
would I like more ports sometimes sure, but do I really need them? No.
I find most PC's ugly but still functional, the aluminum really stands out from the crowd of plastic cases.

 

[MacTruck]

Hmm
Mactruck you seem to find the Thinkpad to be the best computer so why don't you use it then instead of complaining the the new apple laptop is not like it.
Apple looks at what the majority of consumers want and need in their computers not the needs or wants of a few.

I can replace my battery easily in fact I carry a spare in my backpack with out turning my PB off.
And my hard drive was not that hard to replace either, In fact it took me less than 15 min to put in. If I need more space that is what external drives are for, whether they be small flash drives from 16mb- 8gb or hard drive based ones.
Plus the average user is not going to need to replace the HD, and if they do they can be like those guys who get their ram installed by a apple tech.

I like the design of the PB or MacBook, its sleek, clean and sexy.
would I like more ports sometimes sure, but do I really need them? No.
I find most PC's ugly but still functional, the aluminum really stands out from the crowd of plastic cases.

Quiet. I love apple and my powerbook and the new machine kicks ass. I just wish it had some things it doesn't. Lots of people said they weren't possible for apple so I pointed out the thinkpad line. It can be done and they can still make money. Apple reads these forums. Without people like me you would't see any new and creative things from them because people like you would convince apple they don't need to make them better.

Think about it.

 

[mustard]

Quiet. I love apple and my powerbook and the new machine kicks ass. I just wish it had some things it doesn't. Lots of people said they weren't possible for apple so I pointed out the thinkpad line. It can be done and they can still make money. Apple reads these forums. Without people like me you would't see any new and creative things from them because people like you would convince apple they don't need to make them better.

Think about it.

A vocal minority located on the macRumors forum is hardly the key to future development, it can however present an idea to be further investigated.

By some comments in this thread it seems that purchasing the macBook at its current price would be a horrible/irresponsible mistake as a consumer being that there are other laptop manufacturers selling similar machines with added features (removable drives, exc., exc., exc.).The key thing is that most mac users, fanboys, loyalists, switchers, Nazi's (someone refered to my thinking as Nazi-ish - still not sure why) switch for simple reasons such as aesthetics, limited spyware/viriuses, or the generally enjoyable experience of using OS X.

It is an unfair stronghold that Apple has on the Apple/OSX, we want to use for one reason or another because it has no direct competitors and my wallet doesn't necessarily want me to say it... I like it due to its software stability - in regards to hardware support. If everyone sold OS X it would turn in to un-efficient software that is vulnerable & includes so much hardware support that it just wouldn't be the same.

As an analogy Apple is like the only gas station in a small town only selling 93 octane = if you want it - you pay the premium because it is the only one for you. While PC manufacturers are like the stations located on every corner being a penny less here or a penny less there because they HAVE to compete because everyone sells the same gas in their town.

 

[Cloudgazer]

I, for one, am very happy that the macbook looks like the powerbook.

I think the aluminium design is simple, elegant and impressive.
Also, since I've only had my pbook less than a year (and it will be another 2 yrs before i can afford the macbook) I'm very happy the design hasn't changed.

Its bad enough knowing that your laptop is outdated, but at least it doesn't look like it.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

The CASE still looks DARKER to me.

 

[emaja]

I knew someone would say that. Go check out the $2500 model then.

Yeah, this is so much of a better deal.

$2500 for a computer with 512RAM, 80GB HD, and still crappy x300 graphics and NO DVD BURNER!

And they says Macs ae overpriced.

 

[MacTruck]

Yeah, this is so much of a better deal.

$2500 for a computer with 512RAM, 80GB HD, and still crappy x300 graphics and NO DVD BURNER!

And they says Macs ae overpriced.

feel better? IBM is slow to update. Wait until they get yonahs in there. They are not as nice as apples but they do have alot of benefits.

$2399

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/s...yId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840