Umm... sorry... *how* much for that BTO?!

[dh2005]

Now to be fair apple is not the only seller doing this.

Sure, a good point. But maybe Apple can lead the way?

I massively applauded Apple's decision to make the RAM banks easily accessible on the new Mini. That's the kinda thing I like to see... although, still, they're properly thraping people who aren't brave enough to open it!

With TB external enclosures coming soon it's a non-issue. Anything else?

I missed this bigoted gem, earlier.

So, you're okay with it, therefore, "it's a non-issue"? Great. Go ahead and speak for everybody in the World. Nothing wrong here. Everything's fine. Dunno what you're talking about...

 

[DeaconGraves]

Well, we'll start with your point, and my reply. That 'profit margin' is determined by more than charging a ludicrous sum of money for something. Sometimes you can make more profit by cutting the price of something, and bringing more consumers into a market, for instance. There's nothing complex about that, is there...?


Beyond that, I suppose I'm looking for a recognition that the BTO pricing policy is worthy of criticism. Or, at least, a 'debate' about it. People need not agree with me - but it's cheap, and childish, to tell somebody that they're "not really saying anything". Which was my problem with the Moderator.

I agree with you on the fact that Apple might get more buyers by reducing the price of the upgrades. But that's honestly not Apple's culture. And not just in the "we're not super focused on specs so if you want more you'll have to pay for it" way. Apple's business model has, at least for quite a while now, been based on buying pre-made computers in their retail stores. They're not Dell, which built its business around manufacturing custom PCs. They recongize that section of market is there, which is why they offer BTO options. But they charge the premium. And obviously they haven't felt incredibly motivated to change it, either becuase people accept the premium, or go with the alternative and buy a retail Mac. Either case Apple sees money.

And on the "debate" point, I think every one here agrees with you. BTO upgrades are expensive. But people here (I'm generalizing) tend to not get that outraged about it because there are plenty of options to get around this:

1) Buy RAM elsewhere. It's user-accessible and much cheaper elsewhere.

2) Buy external storage solutions. Current firewire options are fast and Thunderbolt drives will be even faster.

3) Take a deep breath and open up the computer and add upgraded internal storage. There have been a ton of threads in the past few days regarding this.

So noone's really criticizing you. But you've basically done the equivalent of going to South Texas in the middle of August of started bitching about the heat. Yes, it's hot. But everyone already knows that and has found ways to "beat the heat" so to speak.

 

[dh2005]

I agree with you on the fact that Apple might get more buyers by reducing the price of the upgrades. But that's honestly not Apple's culture. And not just in the "we're not super focused on specs so if you want more you'll have to pay for it" way. Apple's business model has, at least for quite a while now, been based on buying pre-made computers in their retail stores. They're not Dell, which built its business around manufacturing custom PCs. They recongize that section of market is there, which is why they offer BTO options. But they charge the premium. And obviously they haven't felt incredibly motivated to change it, either becuase people accept the premium, or go with the alternative and buy a retail Mac. Either case Apple sees money.

And on the "debate" point, I think every one here agrees with you. BTO upgrades are expensive. But people here (I'm generalizing) tend to not get that outraged about it because there are plenty of options to get around this:

1) Buy RAM elsewhere. It's user-accessible and much cheaper elsewhere.

2) Buy external storage solutions. Current firewire options are fast and Thunderbolt drives will be even faster.

3) Take a deep breath and open up the computer and add upgraded internal storage. There have been a ton of threads in the past few days regarding this.

So noone's really criticizing you. But you've basically done the equivalent of going to South Texas in the middle of August of started bitching about the heat. Yes, it's hot. But everyone already knows that and has found ways to "beat the heat" so to speak.

Thank you. This was good to read.

1). Damn right. I never would BTO that, I assure you. But it's one Hell of a penalty to people who don't know any better.

2). This, for me, sucks. Because option 3). is beyond my level of skill. External data solutions, personally, I don't like. Part of the point of the iMac, for me and I think for many others, is the discrete, monolithic body that it's all contained within. If I'm forced to start tacking on external crap, it diminishes (in my opinion...) one of the central charms of the iMac.

And I certainly have been criticised here, mate. Not by everyone, I grant you. Those who have, I think, now appreciate that I'm not the type to 'go away'.


And I liked your allegory about Texas. Nicely put.

 

[TechNut315]

Yes the upgrades are crazy overpriced, anyone defending this is an apple fanboy moron. However apple are not stupid, they know that lots of ppl buying BTO computers have more money than sense so can charge crazy prices. If they thought they would make more money selling more upgrades but for a smaller margin they would do it. It probably costs apple 20 pounds to change 1TB HDD to a 2TB HDD. Say they charged a reasonable 40 quid for the upgrade, they would need 5 ppl to upgrade compared to the current 1 for the same profit, thats a lot.

The iMac itself is one of the more fair priced apple products because it comes with such a high quality monitor BUT the vast majority of ppl don't need such a high quality monitor and would be happier with a lesser LCD monitor and 20% off the price. In my personal opinion

With TB external enclosures coming soon it's a non-issue. Anything else?

Comments like this piss me right off. Oh right so now iMacs have thunderbolt connections they can design underpowered or overpriced computers. I can just buy an external HDD, and I could just buy an external GPU because the supplied one is a crappy mobile one. How about a TB soundcard while Im at it. Why don't I just replace all my parts with external ones because with TB I can. No I don't want a ton of external things plugged into my iMac, if I wanted an ugly box I would have bought a PC for half the price. It would be a non-issue if apple just gave us fair prices for upgrades so we could afford the computer we wanted, they would still make a profit and Im sure only a tiny tiny percent of their profit comes from BTO upgrades anyway. It would mostly be to please the geeks like us, the vast majority don't care or even know about BTO upgrades.

 

[iSayuSay]

I'm not talking about 'news'. I'm talking about absurd pricing practices.

It´s not news ... it´s a common practice. Every company do it, an upgrade option always priced ridiculously

Take HDD option, you pay $150 for 2Tb, while the basic price including a 1Tb HDD, then LOGICALLY should substract the 2Tb price with 1Tb standard HDD to make it fair.

So, you should only pay around $50 for 2Tb HDD, but didn´t do that, your 1Tb HDD is just gone

Look at Sony, they did the same with their PS3 option, there are 160Gb and 320Gb and look at their price difference, while the actual price between aftermarket 160Gb and 320Gb ridiculously small, doesn´t it?

 

[omyard]

Was today the first day of economics class today and now you're coming to spout your newly learned ideas?

It's pretty much common sense that any business overcharges for what you could do yourself. You can pay $30 for an oil change or do it yourself for under $10. You can pay Apple $200 to have them upgrade and install your hard drive or you can do it yourself. Need to have a wireless network installed you can pay someone to do it or read the box of the box along with a few pages of instructions and figure it out yourself. You can grow your own food for near free or go to the store and buy it.

I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with what your said in your OP, but you're coming off way too abrasive for no reason at all. You're preaching to the choir, buddy.

 

[Hastings101]

I'll give you one last chance at mature debate. Then I'll ignore you forever. You'll get over it, I expect... but not as quickly as I will.

Telling him to be mature and then threatening to ignore him at the same time is silly

And yes, Apple overcharges. Tarot cards and animal bones to decide pricing sounds pretty realistic to me.

 

[dh2005]

Was today the first day of economics class today and now you're coming to spout your newly learned ideas?

It's pretty much common sense that any business overcharges for what you could do yourself. You can pay $30 for an oil change or do it yourself for under $10. You can pay Apple $200 to have them upgrade and install your hard drive or you can do it yourself. Need to have a wireless network installed you can pay someone to do it or read the box of the box along with a few pages of instructions and figure it out yourself. You can grow your own food for near free or go to the store and buy it.

I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with what your said in your OP, but you're coming off way too abrasive for no reason at all. You're preaching to the choir, buddy.

Thank you for engaging.

Honestly, if I'm preaching to the choir, they must be on tour - because most of what I got in immediate reply was of the ilk, 'you don't like it? don't pay for it', and 'have you never heard of profit?'

For me, these comments are not sufficiently substantial. They don't tackle the problem - they might tacitly admit that it's there, but that's where the analysis stops. No comment on whether it's reasonable, no comment on what alternative strategies Apple might employ to the benefit of both Apple and the consumers... no debate. Just rebuke. 'It is what it is. Why are you questioning it?'.

If I'm abrasive, it's because I won't take the 'brush off' like certain members hoped that I would.


And no, my knowledge of economics goes back a number of years. I'm not an expert - but then, I don't need to be an expert to consider an explanation of the profit motive to be less-than-a-revelation...

 

[dh2005]

Telling him to be mature and then threatening to ignore him at the same time is silly

No, mate. I was just saying it as plainly as possible. He's gonna get "ignored". Oh, I suppose I could've dressed it up a little...

 

[MythicFrost]

You're not really talking about anything, to be fair. You're buying an overpriced machine to begin with. If saving money was actually an issue for you, you'd probably be buying something besides an iMac. Nobody's forcing you to buy Apple RAM anyways, so get over it.

You couldn't build the equiv. machine of the $1999 iMac for much less, if any.

>>>

Yeah, they are pretty expensive upgrades. To upgrade from 2x2GB RAM ($50) to 2x4GB RAM ($100) is $200. That means they're making $150 on that upgrade based off consumer prices.

 

[dh2005]

Yeah, they are pretty expensive upgrades. To upgrade from 2x2GB RAM ($50) to 2x4GB RAM ($100) is $200. That means they're making $150 on that upgrade based off consumer prices.

And that's what bothers me. Not that they're 'making money', but that they're making masses of money - and that's purely on the basis of consumer prices, as you say. Apple certainly won't be paying any more for their drives than I do...!

 

[MythicFrost]

And that's what bothers me. Not that they're 'making money', but that they're making masses of money - and that's purely on the basis of consumer prices, as you say. Apple certainly won't be paying any more for their drives than I do...!

I don't mind that so much though. Their stock builds are really well priced, and I'd much rather have expensive upgrades (that I don't have to choose) than a more expensive base model with cheaper upgrades. They do have to make money, and they make a lot of it, if not most of it, on the upgrades.

 

[dh2005]

I don't mind that so much though. Their stock builds are really well priced, and I'd much rather have expensive upgrades (that I don't have to choose) than a more expensive base model with cheaper upgrades. They do have to make money, and they make a lot of it, if not most of it, on the upgrades.

Okay, I can see that point. And I agree that the iMac is very well-priced (particularly when you can use the academic discount... at which point it begins to look almost 'cheap'...!).

If I can move my current baby onto somebody else (I have two friends 'interested'), I'll cop the extra £80 for the 2GB 6970m. The RAM, I'll sort myself. And the 1TB drive will just have to do... because I'm not paying £120 to have it changed.

 

[RedReplicant]

Unfortunately, people pay the price so the keep charging it.

 

[dh2005]

Unfortunately, people pay the price so the keep charging it.

If it was £80, I think I'd probably pay it. I'd say to myself, "okay... the 2TB drive would cost me £60, anyway... I don't know how to fit it myself... okay." But this is just hackery. In my opinion.

 

[paulrbeers]

ALL OEMs heavily pad their margins with hard disk and memory prices.

+1

As stated, ALL OEM's make their money off upgrades. Their base machines make them "some" money, but they make their real cash off of upgrades. Always buy the base and upgrade yourself.

Seriously why am I even taking the time to read/comment on this.

 

[dh2005]

Seriously why am I even taking the time to read/comment on this.

Are you asking me...? Because that would be even more self-contradictory.

 

[RedReplicant]

If it was £80, I think I'd probably pay it. I'd say to myself, "okay... the 2TB drive would cost me £60, anyway... I don't know how to fit it myself... okay." But this is just hackery. In my opinion.

I think it is absurdly high also, I chalk it up to 'ignorance tax'

 

[dh2005]

I think it is absurdly high also, I chalk it up to 'ignorance tax'

Yeah. That, or 'insecurity tax'. That's the reason I don't do it myself...

 

[Icy1007]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I plan on just getting the base 4GB of RAM and upgrade it myself to 8GB, but I will pay to upgrade the HDD to 2TB because I really don't want to take the screen off to replace the hard drive. I plan on setting it up so Mac OS gets 1TB and Bootcamp gets 1TB.

 

[theSeb]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

Unfortunately, people pay the price so the keep charging it.

If it was £80, I think I'd probably pay it. I'd say to myself, "okay... the 2TB drive would cost me £60, anyway... I don't know how to fit it myself... okay." But this is just hackery. In my opinion.

Where do you buy 2 TB 7200 RPM drives for £60?

Edit: 5400 drives go for 55 to 70 pounds.

 

[tsugaru]

Apple's upgrade pricing, while high, is nothing new when it comes to purchasing from them, let alone anyone.

It's like paying $80 for mudguards for a car when they cost, what, $5 to make. You can get aftermarket ones at any auto shop for like $15-$20 a pair.

No one is forcing you to get the upgrades from Apple. You can always add whatever you want later on.

 

[Dwee8le]

Does anybody here think it's anything other than ridiculous?

I agree with you. There seems to be something wrong with the way Apple products are priced in Europe. They never come close to the actual exchange rates. Last week I figured that it would be a little bit cheaper for me to fly to NYC, buy a MBP 15" (+ 9% tax) and fly home than to buy that same laptop here in Holland. The difference was a little over €600 ( that's close to $900!).
If the HD "upgrade" was $120 in stead of £120, it would may still be cheaper to do it yourself, but the difference in price would not be so ridiculous.

 

[MythicFrost]

Okay, I can see that point. And I agree that the iMac is very well-priced (particularly when you can use the academic discount... at which point it begins to look almost 'cheap'...!).

If I can move my current baby onto somebody else (I have two friends 'interested'), I'll cop the extra £80 for the 2GB 6970m. The RAM, I'll sort myself. And the 1TB drive will just have to do... because I'm not paying £120 to have it changed.

Yeah, I'm trying to do the same. I bought the 2TB drive with my 09 model, but have never used all of it. I'd prefer a 500GB hard drive to be honest, but 1TB is the lowest they go for the high end 27" models.

 

[bri1212]

I guess I am going to be the first to disagree with you. Well, not really. No one is going to be able to tell you that perhaps you don't pay a bit more for BTO units.
what i disagree with is that you keep saying the math doesn't work.
I as a prosumer with little time, bought my MBP with an SD drive from Apple. Technically I am proficient enough to do it. I could have ordered it from any of a number of places and installed myself.
The reason I chose not to is twofold. One, I don't have the time to waste on it. and although i might have saved as much as 250.00 USD, I got my computer complete without the hassle, and I only have one vendor to go back to when there is a problem. Two, when I got my computer I turned it on and it was ready to go to work. I installed the programs I needed and am using it. Did I pay a premium for that? Yes. Am I a happy customer? Yes
Now thats not me being a "fanboy". Thats me being a business man.
Maybe you have the time, or maybe it isn't worth it to you. Thats fine, and more power to you. but it is worth it to me