iPhone 17 Pro Unimpressed with 17 series camera quality

[uacd]

So, we are for the 4th time when same Quad Bayers get recycled by Apple without much changes, just now we have three of them.
I've long had a "hobby" where I would compare camera quality of different iPhones, and whenever I get opportunity to hunt for real samples from real phones or even take these samples myself, I would gladly do that. This time specifically for the reason of trying to justify the upgrade, and currently I see only disadvantages. Tbh I expected Apple to tone down that processing, not double down on it. Maybe it is just me being too negative though, not trying to offend anyone.

I had been scavenging thru the web for real video and photo samples of new iPhones. Checked every site possible, and if only I could say "nah I don't believe these reviewers, they have certainly made those pics with some older digicams and said these are from iPhone!", NOPE. Vice versa, many samples share same weird defect especially visible in videos: blurriness. Looks like this year Apple increased noise reduction even more.

It is not like super blurry but feels off, like HDR defect or something. Also it feels like it was already high time for Apple to step up and improve this poor lens design. Portrait mode is NOT bokeh and never will be, there should be natural lens bokeh of some sort, older iPhones were totally capable of good bokeh, the best I've seen so far was on 12 and 13 series (from newer ones) and 4, 5, 5s, 6, 7 from older ones. The worst (what I've personally experienced) was on 16 Pro and (looks like that) 17 Pro too, looks cheap.

Yes, I even watched iJustine video! Despite her being criticized over "highly pro-Apple position", video samples are real. You can watch and see for yourself. Some commenters on YouTube even expressed opinions that it seems she is barely covering her disappointment with the latest iPhones and simply does her job: reviews the phone.

And as I said, issue is definitely in processing. We can brag for ages about "tiny smartphone sensors", but the issue is not in sensors, it is the processing you cannot undo, unless you are into RAW, ProRAW and such (which takes a lot of time and effort). Maybe my description is not actually very precise, not "blurry" but more like "cheap-looking". I am well-aware of newcomers such as Camac app that can be paired with something like Lightroom or RAW Power and you can get the exact look you want, but it all takes a lot of time AND resolution: Apple never tells you that camera will still output 12 MP "true RAW" images (do not confuse with ProRAW which is already pre-processed). But you know what's fun? These 12MP edited RAWs will still look better than what comera does on its own, even in 48MP (or better to say, especially in 48MP, given how reliant Quad Bayer is on computations and software).

Forums (just some random examples: 1, 2, 3) have been full of users saying that iPhone camera processing has gotten out of hand in the last 10 years or so. All these "photonic engines" and HDR capabilities often can ruin photos instead of making them better. Even some YouTubers are now voicing their legitimate concerns.

Asking both owners of new phones and owners of older ones: do you feel like iPhone camera could have used better processing on images or is it "all good"? Do you have a feeling that sometimes images come out less sharp than from your older phone, or less sharp than you would have liked them to be, or that phone doesn't take reality as-is but more like computational interpretation of said reality? (awkward shadows where they shouldn't be, strange lighting artifacts when you shoot magenta sunset and it comes out orange and bland, even shutter lags due to said processing)

 

[miemo]

I've usually upgraded my phone every 3 to 4 years, and thus far the it's always been a very positive surprise in terms of drastically improved image quality. The last time, upgrading from iPhone X to 14 Pro was the first time I really ended up leaving my real camera at home e.g. on several trips – the quality I was able to get from ProRAWs, esp. from the main camera but also from the other 2 in good light, was really most definitely good enough and allowed me to push the files in Lightroom where I wanted them to be at. And I'm a part-time pro photographer (and full-time geek on visual details), so my standards on this topic are up there. On JPGs/HEIFs the processing was over-the-top already on 14 Pro, but ProRAWs were just getting the good stuff from computational photography and mostly none of the negatives.

But. This time, jumping from 14 Pro to 17 Pro, I was left with feelings that range from "meh" to "wtf is this s**t!". I've done head-to-head comparisons between the two iPhones, and on many occasions I'm getting MUCH better image quality from the 14 Pro. And a lot of the issue seems to boil down to Apple having turned up the image processing algorithm even in ProRAW to the max this time around – even in not-at-all-dark environment, the noise reduction kicks in aggressively and butchers all the fine details that 14 Pro is still able to capture in excellent sharpness. Leaving just two cropped corner samples here – see the details on the white spine of the book with "52".

There's a long thread on this topic, esp. centered around the ProRAW processing here in the forums, with stuff about the 17 Pro at the end as well, despite the tag mentioning 16 Pro: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/issues-with-proraw-48-and-stock-camera-app.2437958/


I'm also starting to think some of my lenses have physical defects in them, misaligned to the sensor or something – seeing such weird lack of quality in the corners, blooming, halos etc which I've never noticed to this extent on the 14 Pro. So all and all very much disappointed with the IQ from the 17 Pro: at least "thanks" to the overt processing even in ProRAWs and probably due to bad quality control of the physical setup as well… 😢

 

[uacd]

I've usually upgraded my phone every 3 to 4 years, and thus far the it's always been a very positive surprise in terms of drastically improved image quality. The last time, upgrading from iPhone X to 14 Pro was the first time I really ended up leaving my real camera at home e.g. on several trips – the quality I was able to get from ProRAWs, esp. from the main camera but also from the other 2 in good light, was really most definitely good enough and allowed me to push the files in Lightroom where I wanted them to be at. And I'm a part-time pro photographer (and full-time geek on visual details), so my standards on this topic are up there. On JPGs/HEIFs the processing was over-the-top already on 14 Pro, but ProRAWs were just getting the good stuff from computational photography and mostly none of the negatives.

But. This time, jumping from 14 Pro to 17 Pro, I was left with feelings that range from "meh" to "wtf is this s**t!". I've done head-to-head comparisons between the two iPhones, and on many occasions I'm getting MUCH better image quality from the 14 Pro. And a lot of the issue seems to boil down to Apple having turned up the image processing algorithm even in ProRAW to the max this time around – even in not-at-all-dark environment, the noise reduction kicks in aggressively and butchers all the fine details that 14 Pro is still able to capture in excellent sharpness. Leaving just two cropped corner samples here – see the details on the white spine of the book with "52".

There's a long thread on this topic, esp. centered around the ProRAW processing here in the forums, with stuff about the 17 Pro at the end as well, despite the tag mentioning 16 Pro: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/issues-with-proraw-48-and-stock-camera-app.2437958/


I'm also starting to think some of my lenses have physical defects in them, misaligned to the sensor or something – seeing such weird lack of quality in the corners, blooming, halos etc which I've never noticed to this extent on the 14 Pro. So all and all very much disappointed with the IQ from the 17 Pro: at least "thanks" to the overt processing even in ProRAWs and probably due to bad quality control of the physical setup as well… 😢

Wow, so I am not imagining that!

I’ve actually seen many examples of 14 Pro performance too and could only say “it is a good camera” back then. But now was really underwhelmed by 17 Pro, which is by definition should cater to “Pros”. And the noise reduction trend started to take height already in 16 Pro, but at least 16 Pro images look sharp and “punchy”, while 17 Pro had changed processing to more dull and images are somewhat “blurry”.

As for your example: YES, it is what I see! 14 Pro is razor sharp. And I don’t understand why bloggers keeping silent about that.

I don’t think it is some sort of lens defect, worst case - it is lens design and similar across all models. If that is in the processing then Apple must know about that, maybe it is certainly just a bug or smth

 

[uacd]

Looks like 17 Pro “lost” to iPhone 2G😂😂 if 2G camera wasn’t as scratched maybe it would have looked even better.

Just think, 2MP vs 48MP!
Computations don’t make it better IMO

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[jntdroid]

...And the noise reduction trend started to take height already in 16 Pro, but at least 16 Pro images look sharp and “punchy”, while 17 Pro had changed processing to more dull and images are somewhat “blurry”.

I still have my 16P alongside the 17P. In normal photos (not ProRAW), the 16 Pro is definitely doing more sharpening than the 17 Pro (especially with the telephoto lens), and a little less noise reduction. In some situations it looks better, in others it does not. Comparing the two in photos, I've found the 17P's to be generally better to my eyes - the 16P's sharpening sometimes comes at a cost, and the 17P seems to do a better job of noise reduction without going too far (looking at you, Samsung). For videos, they're pretty on par with each other until you start zooming in. Even then, they're still comparable, but once the video is utilizing the telephoto lens, the 17P pulls ahead just a bit. The 16P does the same sharpening with less noise reduction - at times it helps, but for the most part the 17P's video has felt more natural and looked "better" to me.

All of these are subtle differences at most, though.

 

[Shameelza]

Watch this, says more on the issue as well, 48mp photos are hardly a thing

 

[protaric]

I've usually upgraded my phone every 3 to 4 years, and thus far the it's always been a very positive surprise in terms of drastically improved image quality. The last time, upgrading from iPhone X to 14 Pro was the first time I really ended up leaving my real camera at home e.g. on several trips – the quality I was able to get from ProRAWs, esp. from the main camera but also from the other 2 in good light, was really most definitely good enough and allowed me to push the files in Lightroom where I wanted them to be at. And I'm a part-time pro photographer (and full-time geek on visual details), so my standards on this topic are up there. On JPGs/HEIFs the processing was over-the-top already on 14 Pro, but ProRAWs were just getting the good stuff from computational photography and mostly none of the negatives.

But. This time, jumping from 14 Pro to 17 Pro, I was left with feelings that range from "meh" to "wtf is this s**t!". I've done head-to-head comparisons between the two iPhones, and on many occasions I'm getting MUCH better image quality from the 14 Pro. And a lot of the issue seems to boil down to Apple having turned up the image processing algorithm even in ProRAW to the max this time around – even in not-at-all-dark environment, the noise reduction kicks in aggressively and butchers all the fine details that 14 Pro is still able to capture in excellent sharpness. Leaving just two cropped corner samples here – see the details on the white spine of the book with "52".

There's a long thread on this topic, esp. centered around the ProRAW processing here in the forums, with stuff about the 17 Pro at the end as well, despite the tag mentioning 16 Pro: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/issues-with-proraw-48-and-stock-camera-app.2437958/


I'm also starting to think some of my lenses have physical defects in them, misaligned to the sensor or something – seeing such weird lack of quality in the corners, blooming, halos etc which I've never noticed to this extent on the 14 Pro. So all and all very much disappointed with the IQ from the 17 Pro: at least "thanks" to the overt processing even in ProRAWs and probably due to bad quality control of the physical setup as well… 😢

I totally agree with what you wrote. I just sold my 14P to get the 17P. The differences in the main 48mpx sensor pics are evident. I was so disappointed in the lack of details with ProRaw and the heavy over-processed pictures, that I went straight to the Apple Store thinking my unit had some issues. The guy at the store ran some tests and told me it was all good, even when I was showing him ProRaw files with little-to-no details. He was saying I couldn't compare my 14P with this new 17P; he said they are different phones, it's normal to get different results.

At that point I was shocked and disappointed. The photo comparison clearly showed that my new phone was struggling a lot with details and the picture were way better on an older phone. So I asked him to take a couple of 17P from the store and compare some test images with mine. The results were identical, meaning my unit is not broken. He was happy about it, since my phone had nothing wrong...

So this is it. I'm still tempted to return it though. I do believe that SW updates will make the situation better, but right now I'm not as happy as I should be after spending so much money on this 17P. I ran some tests with other third party apps and I found out that Halide at 1x is slightly better than the native camera app. I'm not sure I would buy the subscription just for a minor improvement though.

Let's hope Apple has this issue on their radar and fixes it asap.

 

[miemo]

He was saying I couldn't compare my 14P with this new 17P; he said they are different phones, it's normal to get different results.

Sure, results could and even should be different – but not in such a way that the 3 years older model produces drastically better results. 🤨

In the other thread on this topic, someone had also exchanged their 17P to another unit, only to realize it was producing exactly similar photos, i.e. much softer than even the 16P. So guess there's no winning in this game…

 

[jntdroid]

...i.e. much softer than even the 16P. So guess there's no winning in this game…

The 16P over-sharpens at times, hence why that's happening. So far in my testing, there have been times where that helps, and times where the 17P's lack of over-sharpening makes the picture much better. It could just be different approaches. 🤷‍♂️

 

[uacd]

He was saying I couldn't compare my 14P with this new 17P; he said they are different phones, it's normal to get different results.

Whoah, this is peak Apple comedy: “no, newer iPhone shouldn’t have better cameras!”

Can’t blame this employee though, he is just doing his work as he was instructed so he can earn his wage.

So this is it. I'm still tempted to return it though. I do believe that SW updates will make the situation better, but right now I'm not as happy as I should be after spending so much money on this 17P. I ran some tests with other third party apps and I found out that Halide at 1x is slightly better than the native camera app. I'm not sure I would buy the subscription just for a minor improvement though.

Hmm, if Halide results are better than it is definitely the processing that Apple chooses!

You can do much cheaper alternative, though it is much more cumbersome in terms of speed: Camac (free app, lets you shoot stacked/HDR-like RAW photos) and RAW Power (cheap RAW editor to edit said RAW photos). Alternatively you can edit in free Lightroom.

Beware those are true RAW and won’t open properly in Photos app, as well as those are limited to 12MP. This way you can push more from that phone. However, results will probably not be much different from ones you can do on your 14 Pro with same applications, thanks to quad bayer filter that the phones share.

It is indeed not a pleasant experience to buy a phone and not have them deliver what should be baseline: decent camera performance. It feels like Apple is out of touch: their users need to jump thru the hoops just to get good photos.

I wish they would have made photo processing on Pro models different, like if it was a real professional camera - with noise or denoise toggle, with normal software sharpening and not in other way, and instead improve lens design to get real, physical sharpness out of these sensors. They did a goo job with sensors, now it is high time for camera lens improvements.

Currently people would go for Pro models just because it has telephoto, shouldn’t be like that: if they wanna leave their so-cal “state of the art” computational processing for the most people - fine, so be it. But pros need pro toggles, for JPEG & RAW, both. So every computational nonsense can be tuned down or even turned off

 

[MacDevil7334]

Watch this, says more on the issue as well, 48mp photos are hardly a thing

Seems like a fair amount of user error in this video. First thing he did was try to use the telephoto to take a picture of a close up object. It's well known that when you try to take a picture of an object inside the minimum focal distance of your chosen lens, the iPhone will drop back to the next widest lens and then crop and upscale the image to match the equivalent field of view. So, when he took a picture of his shoes (which was definitely too close for the 4x to focus on), the phone dropped back to the 1x main camera and gave him an upscaled image. That image was 12 MP by necessity and of course it didn't look great. BTW, had he tried to do the same thing with the 5x telephoto on the 15 Pro Max, he would have had the exact same thing happen.

My experience with the telephoto on the 17 Pro is that is a step up from the 5x on the 16 Pro, but not a dramatic step up. The improvements are much more subtle than what you would expect from Apple's marketing (and I suspect the marketing is driving some of the disappointment we are seeing). My observations (in no particular order):

• The 4x lens on the 17 Pro zoomed in to 5x captures more detail than the optical 5x lens on the 16 Pro. I attribute this to the higher res sensor on the 17 capturing more information. The 17 Pro also still produces a 24 MP image at 5x, which makes me think it's doing the same processing trickery that allows the 1x lens to still get 24 MP images at 28mm and 35mm equivalents. That's a nice bonus since the 16 Pro still captures a 12 MP image at 5x. Here's a comparison shot of the 17 Pro 4x zoomed to 120mm equivalent (the same field of view on the 16 Pro 5x). At first glance they look similar. But then as you zoom in, you see the 17 Pro was able to pick up things like the texture of the paper on the Da Vinci biography. It was able to resolve that the word Atomic is made of small dots in the next book to the right. And smaller letters and fine details are just crisper throughout the image. Much of that is probably due to the extra resolution of the 17 Pro sensor. There is also just less noise in the 17 Pro image. I couldn't post the full 17 Pro image here because it's 24 MP but here's the comparison of a sampled area of the image.

• If you zoom both phones in to 8x in camera, the 17 Pro really pulls away. Both phones produce a 12 MP image at this point. But the 17 Pro again has more detail and less noise, likely due to the extra resolution and the physically larger sensor. The 16 Pro has to crop the smaller 12 MP sensor and then upscale and you can really see how much it has to rely on over-sharpening at this point. The 17 Pro goes a little too far in noise reduction, leading to a slightly soft image. But I still greatly prefer it to the 16 Pro image. The 17 Pro is simply working with more information. Here's a comparison of the 8x shot from both cameras focusing on the same set of books.

• The 4x can give some decent optical bokeh if you focus on a subject right near the minimum focus distance of the lens. It's not DSLR quality by any means. But you can see some benefit from the larger sensor.

• I am finding the 4x on the 17 Pro to be soft some of the time. But it's not consistently so. So, I am not sure if it is a case of the lens not having enough resolving power for the higher res sensor or if it is an issue with the sensor stabilization or the image processing pipeline that could be corrected in software later on.
• In general, I'm finding the telephoto on the 17 Pro to be an upgrade. It captures more detail and the 4x/8x option is more versatile than the 5x on the 16 Pro. I think people heard 48 MP in Apple's marketing and thought they were getting a DSLR. It's still a phone camera. But it can produce very nice images if you work with it.

I don't have a 14 Pro to compare the 1x cameras. In general, I have found my 1x shots to be about the same as the 16 Pro, which is to say very good. The 1x camera continues to be noticeably superior to the other cameras, though the gap has shrunk a little this year.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm also starting to think some of my lenses have physical defects in them, misaligned to the sensor or something – seeing such weird lack of quality in the corners, blooming, halos etc which I've never noticed to this extent on the 14 Pro.

I feel like I recently read that they are indeed using lenses that may have defects and using software processing to deal with it.

 

[beerglass007]

Wow I'm glad I found this post. I'm no camera expert but like to have the best camera in my pocket and the iPhone has always made me look pretty good at taking a point and click photo

I've upgraded every year, only missed the iPhone XS when I had the X. So I've upgrade from 16Pro to 17Pro and felt the picture was worse. I couldn't say why, but it looked odd and last night took some pictures out of the mountain bikes and it looked over processed, almost 3d cartoon style, just odd

Anyway I did some more testing today and really can't see any point in the 17Pro over the 16Pro so for the second time ever I'm returning the 17Pro and will sit this one out. Gutted but its not any better and if possible worse

 

[digimc]

Seems like a fair amount of user error in this video.

I'm glad you said it and not me. The Youtuber was basically told, multiple times, how to fix the issue, but kept ignoring the advice he was given. Not sure if just for clickbait or just really doesn't know how to properly set up and use the cameras on the 17 PM.

 

[uacd]

Seems like a fair amount of user error in this video. First thing he did was try to use the telephoto to take a picture of a close up object. It's well known that when you try to take a picture of an object inside the minimum focal distance of your chosen lens, the iPhone will drop back to the next widest lens and then crop and upscale the image to match the equivalent field of view. So, when he took a picture of his shoes (which was definitely too close for the 4x to focus on), the phone dropped back to the 1x main camera and gave him an upscaled image. That image was 12 MP by necessity and of course it didn't look great. BTW, had he tried to do the same thing with the 5x telephoto on the 15 Pro Max, he would have had the exact same thing happen.

My experience with the telephoto on the 17 Pro is that is a step up from the 5x on the 16 Pro, but not a dramatic step up. The improvements are much more subtle than what you would expect from Apple's marketing (and I suspect the marketing is driving some of the disappointment we are seeing). My observations (in no particular order):

• The 4x lens on the 17 Pro zoomed in to 5x captures more detail than the optical 5x lens on the 16 Pro. I attribute this to the higher res sensor on the 17 capturing more information. The 17 Pro also still produces a 24 MP image at 5x, which makes me think it's doing the same processing trickery that allows the 1x lens to still get 24 MP images at 28mm and 35mm equivalents. That's a nice bonus since the 16 Pro still captures a 12 MP image at 5x. Here's a comparison shot of the 17 Pro 4x zoomed to 120mm equivalent (the same field of view on the 16 Pro 5x). At first glance they look similar. But then as you zoom in, you see the 17 Pro was able to pick up things like the texture of the paper on the Da Vinci biography. It was able to resolve that the word Atomic is made of small dots in the next book to the right. And smaller letters and fine details are just crisper throughout the image. Much of that is probably due to the extra resolution of the 17 Pro sensor. There is also just less noise in the 17 Pro image. I couldn't post the full 17 Pro image here because it's 24 MP but here's the comparison of a sampled area of the image.

View attachment 2558884 View attachment 2558886

• If you zoom both phones in to 8x in camera, the 17 Pro really pulls away. Both phones produce a 12 MP image at this point. But the 17 Pro again has more detail and less noise, likely due to the extra resolution and the physically larger sensor. The 16 Pro has to crop the smaller 12 MP sensor and then upscale and you can really see how much it has to rely on over-sharpening at this point. The 17 Pro goes a little too far in noise reduction, leading to a slightly soft image. But I still greatly prefer it to the 16 Pro image. The 17 Pro is simply working with more information. Here's a comparison of the 8x shot from both cameras focusing on the same set of books.

View attachment 2558885 View attachment 2558887

• The 4x can give some decent optical bokeh if you focus on a subject right near the minimum focus distance of the lens. It's not DSLR quality by any means. But you can see some benefit from the larger sensor.

View attachment 2558892

• I am finding the 4x on the 17 Pro to be soft some of the time. But it's not consistently so. So, I am not sure if it is a case of the lens not having enough resolving power for the higher res sensor or if it is an issue with the sensor stabilization or the image processing pipeline that could be corrected in software later on.
• In general, I'm finding the telephoto on the 17 Pro to be an upgrade. It captures more detail and the 4x/8x option is more versatile than the 5x on the 16 Pro. I think people heard 48 MP in Apple's marketing and thought they were getting a DSLR. It's still a phone camera. But it can produce very nice images if you work with it.

I don't have a 14 Pro to compare the 1x cameras. In general, I have found my 1x shots to be about the same as the 16 Pro, which is to say very good. The 1x camera continues to be noticeably superior to the other cameras, though the gap has shrunk a little this year.

Interesting comparison, thank you!

I’ve actually never had any objections towards 16 Pro telephoto and mostly ok with 17 Pro telephoto, though I still don’t get why it is 4x now. This telephoto was always the reason why I’ve considered upgrading to new iPhones but still maybe not enough of a reason.

My main issue is with main camera performance. As you noted, it definitely didn’t change a lot since 16 Pro or even 15 Pro I suppose, but this year smh photos and videos captured with it tend to look softer, not sure what’s the reason. As it seems to me more and more - it is all the processing, not some sort of camera flaw like users in ProRAW thread have pointed out (such as misaligned sensor shift system or smth), however I still believe lens design must improve.

And as I learned myself recently: lens means everything in photography!

You can literally take any pinhole “point-and-shoot level” camera but with lens mount, put some Nikkor lens on it and receive state-of-the-art photos, or you can (like me) just use some trashy kit lens on now-discontinued Canon EOS M camera and then wonder why despite APSC sensor the photos are worse than on an iPhone

 

[uacd]

I'm glad you said it and not me. The Youtuber was basically told, multiple times, how to fix the issue, but kept ignoring the advice he was given. Not sure if just for clickbait or just really doesn't know how to properly set up and use the cameras on the 17 PM.

On the other hand, I believe Apple is doing way too much oversight these days when it comes to photography.

For example this thing about “switching cameras”, I’ve learned it only recently with my 11 Pro. That when it cannot focus on a subject with telephoto, it will use digital zoom on main camera. Same goes for some night photos. Turns out I’ve made a lot of digital zoomed photos! All with 12MP sensor. What a bummer. And I always wondered why detail isn’t there. And also photo size didn’t change at all, so for a crop I would suspect it to use less resolution and not upscale into 12MP frame anyway.

Thus would have much preferred if iPhone “didn’t know what to do” when telephoto cannot lock into subject, so I would have naturally “zoomed with my feet” back to keep using that camera instead of having auto revert to digital zoom

 

[uacd]

Wow I'm glad I found this post. I'm no camera expert but like to have the best camera in my pocket and the iPhone has always made me look pretty good at taking a point and click photo

I've upgraded every year, only missed the iPhone XS when I had the X. So I've upgrade from 16Pro to 17Pro and felt the picture was worse. I couldn't say why, but it looked odd and last night took some pictures out of the mountain bikes and it looked over processed, almost 3d cartoon style, just odd

Anyway I did some more testing today and really can't see any point in the 17Pro over the 16Pro so for the second time ever I'm returning the 17Pro and will sit this one out. Gutted but its not any better and if possible worse

Sad it turned out like that.

This year before the keynote I thought “oh yeah, maybe it is finally gonna be the year I would justify upgrading from a 5 y.o. device” but nope, unfortunately not.

At this point I cannot really call 17 Pro even “s” upgrade like back in the days, because “s” upgrades have always had new features and some awesome improvements like when 4s jumped to decent 8MP camera, or when 5S received 1080p 60 recording capability + slomo 120 (poor bitrate it was but still lots of fun for 2013!), and 6s got 4k, 12MP camera (which was worse than 8MP though, that was already a moment when I saw Apple is getting lazy. They have literally added more pixels without increasing their size, which resulted in dramatic drop in low light performance, which they have covered with more noise reduction, which looked like awful watercolor).

17 Pro on the other hand… got 4x zoom after offering 5x for a long time (same did Samsung btw - they first offered 10x zoom and now reverted to 5x for whatever reason), has same shooting modes and resolutions as 16 Pro, literally identical image sensors except telephoto, similar processor, maybe just more RAM but that’s it

 

[digimc]

On the other hand, I believe Apple is doing way too much oversight these days when it comes to photography.

For example this thing about “switching cameras”, I’ve learned it only recently with my 11 Pro. That when it cannot focus on a subject with telephoto, it will use digital zoom on main camera. Same goes for some night photos. Turns out I’ve made a lot of digital zoomed photos! All with 12MP sensor. What a bummer. And I always wondered why detail isn’t there. And also photo size didn’t change at all, so for a crop I would suspect it to use less resolution and not upscale into 12MP frame anyway.

Thus would have much preferred if iPhone “didn’t know what to do” when telephoto cannot lock into subject, so I would have naturally “zoomed with my feet” back to keep using that camera instead of having auto revert to digital zoom

Oh yeah I have done the same. I had a lot of problems early adjusting to how the cameras would automatically switch back and forth and it was very confusing and frustrating. Definitely took me some getting used to.

 

[jntdroid]

Great example of the 16P over-sharpening (if the timestamp doesn't work, it's at 11:42):

 

[beerglass007]

Great example of the 16P over-sharpening (if the timestamp doesn't work, it's at 11:42):

Not worth the upgrade from 16P

 

[ruthless685]

I totally agree with what you wrote. I just sold my 14P to get the 17P. The differences in the main 48mpx sensor pics are evident. I was so disappointed in the lack of details with ProRaw and the heavy over-processed pictures, that I went straight to the Apple Store thinking my unit had some issues. The guy at the store ran some tests and told me it was all good, even when I was showing him ProRaw files with little-to-no details. He was saying I couldn't compare my 14P with this new 17P; he said they are different phones, it's normal to get different results.

At that point I was shocked and disappointed. The photo comparison clearly showed that my new phone was struggling a lot with details and the picture were way better on an older phone. So I asked him to take a couple of 17P from the store and compare some test images with mine. The results were identical, meaning my unit is not broken. He was happy about it, since my phone had nothing wrong...

So this is it. I'm still tempted to return it though. I do believe that SW updates will make the situation better, but right now I'm not as happy as I should be after spending so much money on this 17P. I ran some tests with other third party apps and I found out that Halide at 1x is slightly better than the native camera app. I'm not sure I would buy the subscription just for a minor improvement though.

Let's hope Apple has this issue on their radar and fixes it asap.

Halide is superior, but only shoots in 12MP, and only works well in decent light. It also can't shoot in 2x or 8x. I reached out to, and was able to interact with, the founder/developer of Halide because I noticed a problem with RAW images on the telephoto lens on iOS 26. The issue was happening on my iPhone 15 Pro Max post iOS 26 update and is also happening on my iPhone 17 Pro Max now. I've attached images to show you, but essentially. It seems all telephoto images shot in native RAW have this light band artifact on the left side of the image.

 

[SPG1]

They didn’t fix lens flares I can tell you that. It’s still bad at night.

 

[joshwithachance]

Meanwhile I'm out here taking photos with my Air, using the default camera app, more than I ever have before. The post-processing is FINALLY fine-tuned to a level where I feel like it's not ruining my photos with that over-sharpened look anymore.🙌🏼

 

[upandown]

Can anyone tell me why my 17 Pro keeps outputting photos at 12MPs? I have 48MP set in the settings. This occurs with the Main and when I go to 2X. I don’t believe this happened with my 14 Pro..

 

[phillies3429]

I feel like my 17PM camera is blurry 80% of the time. Anyone else?