Upgraded M4 Pro or binned M4 Max?

[triumph71]

I currently run a 14" M1 Max (binned) 10c CPU, 24c GPU 32GB. I was really hoping the M4 Max binned would be a compelling upgrade, but i'm not seeing it. The upgraded M4 Pro with 14c CPU and 20c GPU 24GB ($2399) is significantly cheaper than the M4 Max with the same 14c CPU but 32c GPU 36GB ($3199). Even upgrading to the M4 Pro to 48GB of ram is $2799, and this is not even an option on the unbined M4 Max, 36GB is a high as that goes, I would have to go to the unbinned M4 Max with 48GB of ram for $3699.

As i primarily use my machine for development and with AI LLMs becoming more important, memory is more important than ever. While 36GB of the M4 Max binned is more than I have today, I'm finding myself leaning towards the M4 Pro with the 48GB option to provide more headroom, and for $400 cheaper than the M4 Max with 8GB less memory but 12 more GPU cores...

I'm not sure how much difference the memory bandwidth improvments from 273GB/s of the Pro to 410GB/s of the binned Max and double the encoding engines are going to make in my day to day.

Is anywone else thinking of moving from a M1 Max to the M4 Pro/Max? I'm in a bit of a quandry about this.

 

[robotrigger]

I have the exact same question! I'm more interested in lasting power/ and plan to even do some windows work from my Mac (parallels or VMware fusion). My gut instinct is ram is more important but I don't understand the benefits of the others. I will say this will be my primary computer and thing like gaming are important to me as well (well as much as you can do on a Mac at least).

 

[MF878]

I don’t think the difference in memory bandwidth would outweigh +12GB RAM and $400 less cost. They’ve priced the M4 Max too high this time in my opinion given the Pro chip has gotten much stronger.

 

[cassmr]

I feel like the binned max's are really for video professionals who want the extra media encoders/decoders.

It would be interesting how much the memory bandwidth impacts ai but the extra GPU cores would also be important, I suspect it would be better in quite a few cases than a pro. But if you are just messing around, and dont have an unlimited budget, then the pro makes much more sense. And if you are more of an ai/ml enthusiast about it and have the money, then you are better off with non-binned max.

 

[Matck06]

I feel like the binned max's are really for video professionals who want the extra media encoders/decoders.

It would be interesting how much the memory bandwidth impacts ai but the extra GPU cores would also be important, I suspect it would be better in quite a few cases than a pro. But if you are just messing around, and dont have an unlimited budget, then the pro makes much more sense. And if you are more of an ai/ml enthusiast about it and have the money, then you are better off with non-binned max.

Hmmm le M4 max binned ne peut pas aller au delà de 36Go de ram je trouve ça très moyen. Je trouve cette année la puce m4 pro plus avantageuse que la m4 max même si la puce m4 pro sur mac mini peut aller jusqu'à 64Go de ram au lieu de 48Go de m4 pro sur Macbook pro

That said I see many people swear by 64Gb gb ram for use LR + PS I torune with raw 50Mpx sony A1 and panorama 300 mpx no worries despite several program open no exchange on memory here most people do not know how the ram works on Mac os, the more the ram is unused the more mac os will fill it.

 

[appleEP]

I'll argue the other direction: I think the binned M4 Max is better. Getting 1.6x GPU (32 cores vs 20 cores, which scale ~linearly) performance, which any app that utilizes Metal (which isn't just graphics, but graphics + compute) will take advantage of, is a very big gain. Further, the improved memory bandwidth (410 vs 273 is 1.5x) is going to meaningfully help you with AI LLM development, beyond just generally speeding up things (although to be fair, I doubt that hardly any work is bandwidth constrained at 273 GB/s). Sure, 48 GB of RAM is very nice, but 36 GB is still a ton and would readily enable you to work on huge datasets and keep them all in memory. Finally, yeah the $400 is more, but again 1.6x graphics + compute gain is massive, never mind the bandwidth improvement, so seems worth it to me....and do you have any friends in school? Then you can use their education discount, shave $300 off the binned M4 max and call it even

 

[appleEP]

I have the exact same question! I'm more interested in lasting power/ and plan to even do some windows work from my Mac (parallels or VMware fusion). My gut instinct is ram is more important but I don't understand the benefits of the others. I will say this will be my primary computer and thing like gaming are important to me as well (well as much as you can do on a Mac at least).

See my other reply but if you're going to game, the binned M4 max is the way to go. 1.6x GPU performance (32 cores vs 20, and they roughly ~linearly scale) is a huge difference. And again, 36 GB is still a ton! I don't think you're going to have any memory pressure issues...

 

[Matck06]

I'll argue the other direction: I think the binned M4 Max is better. Getting 1.6x GPU (32 cores vs 20 cores, which scale ~linearly) performance, which any app that utilizes Metal (which isn't just graphics, but graphics + compute) will take advantage of, is a very big gain. Further, the improved memory bandwidth (410 vs 273 is 1.5x) is going to meaningfully help you with AI LLM development, beyond just generally speeding up things (although to be fair, I doubt that hardly any work is bandwidth constrained at 273 GB/s). Sure, 48 GB of RAM is very nice, but 36 GB is still a ton and would readily enable you to work on huge datasets and keep them all in memory. Finally, yeah the $400 is more, but again 1.6x graphics + compute gain is massive, never mind the bandwidth improvement, so seems worth it to me....and do you have any friends in school? Then you can use their education discount, shave $300 off the binned M4 max and call it even

I agree about the ram, myself on my M3 max with 48gb I'm wide I even think 36gb is more than enough for advanced photo editing with 50Mpx raw (sony A1).

 

[MacStudioNoob]

Hey everyone, pardon my ignorance but I seem to be in the same situation as you. On my current Mac which is a home workstation, I have 50/64GB used but the memory pressure is green and very low. I don't even know what's causing that RAM usage, because I only have a 5GB Video editing software and the rest are brave/google/safari tabs that I use for marketing with my clients.

I'm looking to replace my MacBook Pro (i7...) with a new M4. I'll be using it on the go while using Parallels/VMWare for some Windows apps related to marketing and content generation. I doubt I'll be gaming on that laptop, but I'll be doing multitasking and using the adobe suite, usually for pictures & content creation, rarely for video.

I'm relying on you experts to help me please understand which choice to do between the M4 Pro that would give me 48GB of RAM which could easily allow me to run Parallels Windows on my Mac and keep everything open for the different projects I'll handle on the go VERSUS getting the Binned M4 Max that would give me 36GB of RAM which could hinder my activities, knowing that I'll need to give 4-8-16GB to my Virtual Windows but since it's M4 Max, perhaps it's so strong and efficient that it doesn't need as much RAM?

Thank you for your help / Merci pour votre aide!

 

[appleEP]

I wouldn't consider myself an expert but from what you're saying, getting the machine with the more ram probably makes the most sense for you- M4 Pro with 48GB.

 

[appleEP]

I agree about the ram, myself on my M3 max with 48gb I'm wide I even think 36gb is more than enough for advanced photo editing with 50Mpx raw (sony A1).

I'm really eyeing the binned M4 max for use in capture one to edit similar-sized raw photos (Fuji XT-5) myself. I currently have a M1 MacBook pro and it's remarkably capable, so long as I don't connect to an external monitor...at which point it becomes basically unusable. The 14 inch current MacBook Pro is a bit bigger and heavier than my M1 MacBook Pro, but the screen is much better, and on paper anyway the GPU is about 4.9x faster. Just have to figure out the budget...

 

[zarathu]

I don’t think the difference in memory bandwidth would outweigh +12GB RAM and $400 less cost. They’ve priced the M4 Max too high this time in my opinion given the Pro chip has gotten much stronger.

As of the moment almost no software uses the memory bandwidth above 100. So 273 is actually way above any currnt software usage. Paying for more is a waste of money.

 

[AirpodsNow]

What I understand so far with running local llm is

1) size of available vram determines the max size of your llm model
Unified memory is defaulted to assign max of 75% of all memory to gpu. You can change it manually but you need to factor that only 75% of 36 or 48gb is available for llm model.

2) bandwidth and number of gpu cores directly affect the speed of getting results from the llm. The higher the bandwidth the quicker it returns the results. See these benchmarks https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/discussions/4167. Since more gpus also relate to more bandwidth, its results are correlated.

In my opinion the size of the unified memory is the major single factor that determines what size of llm you can run. The bigger the better (larger llms with more parameter usually better for results). So you got to determine what size you like to play with. You can check openrouter.ai for multiple models and see what suits you and look up on huggingface website or mac app LMstudio.ai for the same model and the size! In this way you can actually determine what size of unified memory would suit you (spoiler it’s gonna be high!)

In short, get as much unified memory as you can afford. It’s no secret that many that run local llm like the 128gb unified memory model of the MacBooks. Check subreddit localllm for more posts and info as well.

 

[Melbourne Park]

I wanted 64 GB RAM, but to get that, I'd have had to pay more than one third more, for a Max 1TB/64 GB. Instead of a Pro with 48 GB /2TB (2 TB due to my fear of virtualising).

I'm waiting for 3 weeks, so I may change to a 14" max with 1 TB/64 GB RAM. Where I am there isn't much difference in price between the 14" & 16" Pro models, but the difference between the 14" and 16" Max models (with the same RAM, processor and drive capacities) the difference in price goes up by two and half times compared to the difference in price 14"v16" in the Pro CPU versions. I intend to sit down in front of a 14" and 16" and then may change my order.

 

[AirpodsNow]

I wanted 64 GB RAM, but to get that, I'd have had to pay more than one third more, for a Max 1TB/64 GB.

I got that same dilemma and went for it! Expensive, but at least you get significant performance in return. Let’s hope it’s not smoke and mirrors

 

[Melbourne Park]

I got that same dilemma and went for it! Expensive, but at least you get significant performance in return. Let’s hope it’s not smoke and mirrors

It won't be smoke and mirrors! But for me, extra processing time will not be a big deal. However the Max M4 has the same core etc count as the M3 Max. So i guess it will be perhaps 20% to 25% faster? For what I am paying, I could have got a refurb 48 GB 1 TB M3 Max. But with no Thunderbolt 5, I reckon 1 TB is too small. But with T-5, 1 TB should be OK. But I converted some of the savings to 2 TB as I want to process family videos - 200 hours of them - and T-5 is not available yet. It's easy to fill up 1 TB when processing videos. Also since 1Tb is sort of standard now, I suspect in a few years 1 TB will become too small! That has been my experience anyway - the factory recommended drive becomes too small in 4 years time!

I'm going to try to sell my PCI RAID card in my 5,1 Mac Pro because I don't think PCI Thunderbolt 5 devices will arrive for a long time. But T-5 external are on the way, orders can be placed. OWC 4 TB is $US600. Some time there'll be an NVME casing which is T-5. I also want to increase the resolution of videos using Topaz which is intensive work on my current hardware.

 

[BeingFree]

See my other reply but if you're going to game, the binned M4 max is the way to go. 1.6x GPU performance (32 cores vs 20, and they roughly ~linearly scale) is a huge difference. And again, 36 GB is still a ton! I don't think you're going to have any memory pressure issues...

I think the m4 pro that takes 48 gig is actually the best spec, that 48 gig is going to last you forever. And while I was running a lot of llm models locally. The max is too expensive with 36 gig and it's even vastly more expensive if you upgrade to that next level.

 

[dedoom]

I think the m4 pro that takes 48 gig is actually the best spec, that 48 gig is going to last you forever. And while I was running a lot of llm models locally. The max is too expensive with 36 gig and it's even vastly more expensive if you upgrade to that next level.

Hey BeingFree, can I ask for your 2 cents on my situation pls? It sounds like you have the same use-case as I do.

I was doing some thinking, and by the looks of the CPU benchmarks + how many cores the M4 pro and M4 MAX are getting - it looks like the M4 PRO is the real winner in terms of getting the biggest boosts to performance.

I think its for this exact reason Apple is on purpose effin us over with limiting 64 GB, otherwise it would be the clear best bang for buck.

Can you let me know if you think the following use case will be covered by the M4 PRO + 48GB + 1TB?

• Development of mobile and web apps
• Development of games (mostly mobile IOS + Android - probably using Unity for cross platform)
• Browsing the web, watching videos and movies here and there
• Video meetings and calls
• Potentially editing 4k footage that I record with my Sony Camera
• Maybe running some local LLMs, training if required etc

Any advice from people would be very welcome. Such a big purchase lol.

I would love to get 64 GB, but it costs me another $1500 CAD + taxes

Cheers!

 

[Melbourne Park]

...

I would love to get 64 GB, but it costs me another $1500 CAD + taxes

Cheers!

I am buying the 16", with a 2TB drive. But for about the same price, I could get a 64 GB 14" with a 1 TB drive. I need to try them out. Will I be comfortable with just 14" is my big question. It is possible to return a Mac if it's in perfect condition, normally 2 week window, but four weeks or so over Christmas (depending on which country I presume).

 

[Questiom]

I currently run a 14" M1 Max (binned) 10c CPU, 24c GPU 32GB. I was really hoping the M4 Max binned would be a compelling upgrade, but i'm not seeing it. The upgraded M4 Pro with 14c CPU and 20c GPU 24GB ($2399) is significantly cheaper than the M4 Max with the same 14c CPU but 32c GPU 36GB ($3199). Even upgrading to the M4 Pro to 48GB of ram is $2799, and this is not even an option on the unbined M4 Max, 36GB is a high as that goes, I would have to go to the unbinned M4 Max with 48GB of ram for $3699.

As i primarily use my machine for development and with AI LLMs becoming more important, memory is more important than ever. While 36GB of the M4 Max binned is more than I have today, I'm finding myself leaning towards the M4 Pro with the 48GB option to provide more headroom, and for $400 cheaper than the M4 Max with 8GB less memory but 12 more GPU cores...

I'm not sure how much difference the memory bandwidth improvments from 273GB/s of the Pro to 410GB/s of the binned Max and double the encoding engines are going to make in my day to day.

Is anywone else thinking of moving from a M1 Max to the M4 Pro/Max? I'm in a bit of a quandry about this.

How do you tell which M4 Max is binned vs unbinned, and which is better?

 

[AirpodsNow]

How do you tell which M4 Max is binned vs unbinned, and which is better?

Yeah it’s an odd habit people have been doing this for these chips.

If you go to the configuration on Apple website you can see the m4 max had two versions, the 32 gpu vs 40 gpu version. They call the lower gpu version binned.

It’s not that everybody that gets the same config have some binned or not binned models. So it’s just often referring to the chip with lesser specs.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Best Buy is just selling the Base 16" M4 Pro with 512GB HD. No option for a 1TB. Anybody knows if they'll add that sku?

 

[Mac mini power user]

The price difference is significant, but if you can wait until the holiday season, you may actually be able to get an M4 Max machine for a more compelling price. There have been plenty of markdowns from the usual suspects on non-BTO MacBook Pros (Best Buy, B&H Photo, even Amazon) in the past two years on even relatively new models. If you can buy it in the States and you can wait a couple of months, I would do just that, because there will be some good deals to be had (edu prices are of course lower year-round).

Regarding performance: if you need the RAM, go for the RAM. If you don't need the extra CPU or GPU cores, then memory is always the best thing to invest in, even at Apple's price-gouging upgrade prices.

 

[Mac mini power user]

Best Buy is just selling the Base M4 Pro with 512GB HD. No option for a 1TB. Anybody knows if they'll add that sku?

It is available actually if you configure it on the site: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-...512gb-ssd-space-black/6602741.p?skuId=6602741

 

[gadgetfreaky]

It is available actually if you configure it on the site: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-...512gb-ssd-space-black/6602741.p?skuId=6602741 View attachment 2446113

That's 14 inch only which I did see. I am unfortunately looking for 16 inch