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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,138
1,899
Anchorage, AK
The disrupted refresh cycles tend to fall into these categories

- part is not at the price point or design target of the Apple (7 years delay of AMOLED on the iPhone & 3+ years delay of larger iMac)
- lack of demand (2013, 2019 & 2023 Mac Pro & iPhone mini)

The ~10 year support is based on the Macs prior to 2017 & the additional 5 years of 3rd party browser support for the final macOS Security Update. If you do not want to use Chrome or Firefox then replace to the next year model by year 9 point something.

macOS Intel version​
Latest update​
Final Security Update​
iMac​
Macbook Pro​
Macbook Air​
Mac Pro​
Mac mini​
iMac Pro​
Macbook​
2025 macOS 16​
To Be Released​
2028​
2020​
2020​
2020​
2019​
-​
?​
-​
2024 macOS 15​
To Be Released​
2027​
2019​
2019​
2019​
2019​
-​
2017​
-​
2023 Sonoma​
Sep 2023​
2026​
2019​
2018​
2018​
2019​
2018​
2017​
-​
2022 Ventura​
Sep 2023​
2025​
2017​
2017​
2018​
2019​
2018​
2017​
2017​
2021 Monterey​
Sep 2023​
2024​
2015​
2015​
2015​
2013​
2014​
2017​
2016​
2020 Big Sur​
Sep 2023​
2023​
2014​
2013​
2013​
2013​
2014​
2017​
2015​
2019 Catalina​
Jul 2022​
2022​
2012​
2012​
2012​
2013​
2012​
2017​
2015​
2018 Mojave​
Jul 2021​
2021​
2012​
2012​
2012​
2013​
2012​
2017​
2015​
2017 High Sierra​
Nov 2020​
2020​
2009​
2010​
2010​
2010​
2010​
2017​
2009​
2016 Sierra​
Sep 2019​
2019​
2009​
2010​
2010​
2010​
2010​
-​
2009​
2015 El Capitan​
Jul 2018​
2018​
2007​
2007​
2008​
2008​
2009​
-​
2008​
2014 Yosemite​
Jul 2017​
2017​
2007​
2007​
2008​
2008​
2009​
-​
2008​
2013 Mavericks​
Jul 2016​
2016​
2007​
2007​
2008​
2008​
2009​
-​
2008​
2012 Mountain Lion​
Aug 2015​
2015​
2007​
2007​
2008​
2008​
2009​
-​
2008​
2007 Leopard​
Aug 2009​
2009​
2003​
2002​
-​
2001​
2005​
-​
2003​
2005 Tiger​
Nov 2007​
2007​
1999​
2000​
-​
1999​
2005​
-​
2000​

By comparison since 2007 Windows Vista Microsoft has provided Software Support for 122 months.

Depending on device

- iOS is 100-112 months long
- iPadOS is 8-10 years long

For majority of 1st owners/users with the means to replace the device should do so before the final Security Update.

If you are using a hand me down or bought used should ignore what I recommend.

For the vast majority of persons SaaS is a cash flow blessing from God. Many pirate software because it costs hundreds or even thousand of dollars that few can afford up front.

Being able to pay $10-20/month for Lightroom or Office makes it accessible to many persons.



That's the direction the whole industry is going towards to. Even Nvidia's doing SoCs.

The mass market consumer rarely, if ever, lift the hood and replace SODIMM, NVMe SSD, GPUs, CPUs or motherboards these days.

That's what minority of buyers do.

When Qualcomm's attempt for Windows 11 on ARM laptops actually works then expect Intel, AMD & even Nvidia to replicate the cost savings of SoC PCs to maintain margins.

When that occurs swappable part PCs will experience price hikes after price hikes as economies of scales worsen due to shrinking demand.

This is already happening, but it's due to sheer greed from the manufacturers. When nVidia dropped the 20xx series of GPUs at a 20-35% hike over their comparable 10xx models, that started the upwards trend in the graphic card market. Intel is actually doing the same thing on the CPU front with the 14th gen CPUs (aka Raptor Lake refresh) carrying a 15-20% price hike over the 13th gen SKUs they're replacing). Even on the motherboard side a lot of basic motherboards in 2023 cost what high-end boards cost in 2018, and the market as a whole keeps raising prices then acting dumbfounded when people aren't buying in the quantities they expect. To make this point clear: the price hikes occurred BEFORE the slowdowns in the custom PC market rather than after.

The other factor at play here besides price hikes from manufacturers is that with COVID lockdowns in the past, most people have returned to working out of their home, so the big demand to buy computers, printers, etc. that existed in 2020 is no longer present. That lowers demand across the board, although some electronics retailers (Best Buy) are too stubborn to acknowledge that fact and are instead lying to their share holders and employees about how everyone has moved to online shopping, when the truth is BBY drove people out of their stores by deliberately understaffing and understocking them.
 
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sack_peak

Suspended
Sep 3, 2023
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This is already happening, but it's due to sheer greed from the manufacturers. When nVidia dropped the 20xx series of GPUs at a 20-35% hike over their comparable 10xx models, that started the upwards trend in the graphic card market. Intel is actually doing the same thing on the CPU front with the 14th gen CPUs (aka Raptor Lake refresh) carrying a 15-20% price hike over the 13th gen SKUs they're replacing). Even on the motherboard side a lot of basic motherboards in 2023 cost what high-end boards cost in 2018, and the market as a whole keeps raising prices then acting dumbfounded when people aren't buying in the quantities they expect. To make this point clear: the price hikes occurred BEFORE the slowdowns in the custom PC market rather than after.

The other factor at play here besides price hikes from manufacturers is that with COVID lockdowns in the past, most people have returned to working out of their home, so the big demand to buy computers, printers, etc. that existed in 2020 is no longer present. That lowers demand across the board, although some electronics retailers (Best Buy) are too stubborn to acknowledge that fact and are instead lying to their share holders and employees about how everyone has moved to online shopping, when the truth is BBY drove people out of their stores by deliberately understaffing and understocking them.
It is actually a self feeding loop. Factors that caused people to delay buying or not buying a PCs are

- 2007 iPhone & 2008 Android smartphones being good enough for most consumer's personal computing, MP3, camera, gaming and dumbphone needs

- smartphones getting "pushed" to users every end of carrier contracts. no other device does this.

- hardware performance outpacing software demands

- mass market consumer's aversion to upgrading internal parts & preferring replacing whole devices thus the creation of Thunderbolt for external upgrades

- consumer behavior changes... overhead & stock availability's better online. increasing labor cost of $15/hr just kills off brick & mortar operations

I just went to the closest lux mall to me that was 2.5 miles away and almost half the retail shops shut down to be replaced by restaurants... my friend obsessed with bookstores and buying his devices over the counter will really suffer depression of not being able to buy his things in person. He was born in 1979 and not 1949.
 
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picpicmac

macrumors 65816
Aug 10, 2023
1,239
1,833
I'm somewhat concerned about what's going to happen with an annual update cycle for computers
The whole idea of an "annual update" for computers always strikes me as wrong. The industry has always been in a game of one-upmanship but the timing of major improvements is not synchronized to Earth's orbit.
 
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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,138
1,899
Anchorage, AK
The whole idea of an "annual update" for computers always strikes me as wrong. The industry has always been in a game of one-upmanship but the timing of major improvements is not synchronized to Earth's orbit.

For years (going back to at least the early 2000s), the PC industry has refreshed their product lineups every 3-4 months. While that is nothing new, what has changed is the product lifecycles for CPU and GPU generations updating on a more regular basis. Now that Intel has moved to what's roughly an annual cycle for new generations of CPUs, AMD has followed suit to some extent, as have Nvidia, AMD and (now) Intel on the GPU front. While AMD did make a big shift between their 5xxx and 7xxx parts (5nm process, AM4 to AM5, DDR5 support only among others), Intel has taken their "tick tock" approach to another extreme with the upcoming 14th gen parts, which are just speed-bumped replacements for the 13th gen CPUs, yet are carrying roughly a 20% price hike over the CPUs they're replacing. Intel's process naming scheme is a mess, because they're using the term "Intel 7" to refer to what's a refined 10nm process), which is confusing to those who follow the technical aspects of these systems. The reports are that their 15th gen will be the big "leap" in performance, but we'll have to wait for those to hit production to know for sure.

- consumer behavior changes... overhead & stock availability's better online. increasing labor cost of $15/hr just kills off brick & mortar operations

I just went to the closest lux mall to me that was 2.5 miles away and almost half the retail shops shut down to be replaced by restaurants... my friend obsessed with bookstores and buying his devices over the counter will really suffer depression of not being able to buy his things in person. He was born in 1979 and not 1949.

The ability to go into a store and pick up something you need same-day is a convenience many people would prefer. The issue with retailers such as Best Buy is that their website is almost as bare as their physical stores lately. Their CEO has deliberately made the in-store experience as miserable as possible for customers and employees alike, all in the name of maximizing her own bonus and shareholder dividends at the expense of the company's reputation.

As far as the mall example goes, I can point out two malls in my area that had turnover through the COVID lockdowns, but are currently thriving. While one of the malls has lost 80% of its food court tenants, the rest of the mall is largely occupied save for a couple of store fronts which are reserved for seasonal popups. The point is that neither your one example nor my two examples are indicative of the overall health of the mall business model, you'd have to look at annual reports from the big management firms such as Simon or CBL to see what the overall health is.
 
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