Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

USB 3.x PCIe Cards for Classic Mac Pro

Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.
J

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,260
ActionableMango said:
There are generally two reasons. First, for many products, "USB 3.1" can mean "USB 3.1 gen 1", which is limited to USB 3.0 speed anyway (5Gbps).

Second, even for products specifically stating something like "10Gbps", that's just theoretical and nobody can hit it. Most can't even hit the 5Gbps speed. There are bottlenecks in one or more components throughout the chain, for example cheap junk that starts overheating.

Slash-2CPU did a bunch of testing which I tried to summarize in the first post. I think he found a few very specific components that exceeded 5.0Gbps. IIRC, a lot of components he tried that were marketed for USB 3.1 weren't really up to the task at all.

On the other hand, I wrote that summary a long time ago. Maybe things have improved since then. If it is different now, I encourage people to update the first post wiki.
Click to expand...
I think what he's saying is you can get USB 3.1 gen 2 speeds if you use a USB 3.1 gen 2 device capable of reaching those speeds (RAID or NVMe) and there are no bottlenecks between the device and the CPU that restrict the speed to less than USB 3.1 gen 2.

But that basically applies to any device ever so you can ignore it.

For USB 3.1 gen 2, you can get a max of around 872 MB/s read but that is with a USB controller that is slightly better than an Asmedia ASM1142 as I've explained previously in #2095.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline and ActionableMango
ActionableMango

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
9,613
6,909
I don't have a Mac Pro any more and I'm not following this very well. TBH I don't really understand the stuff about multiplexers, switches, and lanes and all that.

But if there are specific cards that now work well for USB 3.1 in a Mac Pro, I recommend someone edit the first post and replace the existing 3.1 information with the recommended cards. I think that would be the most helpful to people looking to add 3.1 to their MP. I suspect the 3.1 information I have there right now is out of date and needs to be tossed.
 
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
Is there anything about the Sonnet Allegro USB-C card that would make it less compatible with USB 3.0 peripherals other than the need to use a USB-C to female USB 3.0 dongle/adapter? I'm planning to order the USB-C card tonight so I thought I would look for any last minute reasons to just get one of the Sonnet USB 3.0 cards instead (other than they have 4 ports vs 2 ports on the USB C card).
 
ActionableMango

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
9,613
6,909
PianoPro said:
Is there anything about the Sonnet Allegro USB-C card that would make it less compatible with USB 3.0 peripherals other than the need to use a USB-C to female USB 3.0 dongle/adapter? I'm planning to order the USB-C card tonight so I thought I would look for any last minute reasons to just get one of the Sonnet USB 3.0 cards instead (other than they have 4 ports vs 2 ports on the USB C card).
Click to expand...

I think you covered the negative differences already.

Other than that, the USB-C card should be more compatible with devices because it supports 3A power per port and I think the USB-A card supports 1.5A power per port.
 
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
ActionableMango said:
I think you covered the negative differences already.

Other than that, the USB-C card should be more compatible with devices because it supports 3A power per port and I think the USB-A card supports 1.5A power per port.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys. After seeing your comments I ordered the USB-C 3.1 card and a couple USB 3.0 adapter cables.
 
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
I received the Sonnet Allegro USB-C PCIe card (2-ports) from Amazon, plugged it into PCI slot 4, and it works with Mojave. That simple.

I also received a pair of Syntech 6" USB-C to USB 3.0 female adapter cables ($10 a pair) and plugged one into a 5 TB USB 3.0 WD My Book. The BlackMagic Disk Speed Test average read/write went from about 30 MB/s using USB 2.0 ports to an average read/write of about 140 MB/s, which is essentially the same speed as my internal HD's. So that was a very worthwhile improvement, even though that combination doesn't come close to the full USB 3.0 (or USB 3.1) limits.

Unfortunately, I don't have any peripherals right now that would test for faster USB 3.0 or USB 3.1 speeds.

EDIT + Forgot to mention best news, no interference at all with my Asus BT-400 Bluetooth dongle at end of my Apple Keyboard about 8" from Magic Mouse.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline and VaZ
startergo

startergo

macrumors 603
Sep 20, 2018
5,021
2,283
PianoPro said:
I received the Sonnet Allegro USB-C PCIe card (2-ports) from Amazon, plugged it into PCI slot 4, and it works with Mojave. That simple.

I also received a pair of Syntech 6" USB-C to USB 3.0 female adapter cables ($10 a pair) and plugged one into a 5 TB USB 3.0 WD My Book. The BlackMagic Disk Speed Test average read/write went from about 30 MB/s using USB 2.0 ports to an average read/write of about 140 MB/s, which is essentially the same speed as my internal HD's. So that was a very worthwhile improvement, even though that combination doesn't come close to the full USB 3.0 (or USB 3.1) limits.

Unfortunately, I don't have any peripherals right now that would test for faster USB 3.0 or USB 3.1 speeds.

EDIT + Forgot to mention best news, no interference at all with my Asus BT-400 Bluetooth dongle at end of my Apple Keyboard about 8" from Magic Mouse.
Click to expand...

Just wondering what made you choose Sonnet Allegro USB-C PCIe over Gigabyte GC-TITAN-RIDGE AIC for instance?
AFAIK Isn't thunderbolt faster than USB3.1?
 
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
startergo said:
Just wondering what made you choose Sonnet Allegro USB-C PCIe over Gigabyte GC-TITAN-RIDGE AIC for instance?
AFAIK Isn't thunderbolt faster than USB3.1?
Click to expand...
Very simple answers.

1. I use my Mac Pro to do design work (see my signature). I don't mod my Mac Pro as a hobby. Nothing wrong with that, it might be fun if I had the time, and if I could afford it being out of service once in a while if doing fun things didn't always work right away. Sonnet designed and guarantees their USB-C card to work in a Mac Pro without any special drivers or anything else. I can't say that about a TB card yet. Hence, "I ... plugged it into PCI slot 4, and it works with Mojave. That simple."

2. What I needed was to add two ports of USB 3.0 compatibility to my Mac Pro to interface with some larger spinning HD's and USB 3.0 thumb drives. I really have no expected need for it to go faster than USB 3.0 speed. If I need faster SSD speeds than I already have I'll add them internal.

3. Hopefully I'll be retiring this Mac Pro from engineering use within a year (hope springs eternal for new mMP to be right) and only using it for piano stuff. I don't see a real need for TB there, but if I do later I can add it then.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline, crjackson2134, howiest and 1 other person
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
JeffPerrin said:
@PianoPro Does the Sonnet card play nice with sleep functions on the Mac Pro?
Click to expand...
Each external disk volume produces a Disk Not Ejected Properly notice that has a Close "button", but the external disk(s) wake up feeling fine and well rested :)

The Sonnet site FAQ (very nicely organized site with info) addresses this issue:


To minimize power usage during sleep, power is removed from PCIe cards. Because of this power-saving specification, a USB 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1 PCIe card is unable to maintain USB port power during sleep. In macOS, this result in a storage device disconnect upon wake from sleep. The storage device will automatically remount, but the system reports a disconnect message. Because macOS flushes all caches before sleeping, this disconnect should never result in any loss of data.​

EDIT + There is also an optional kext that can be loaded to support full USB power delivery capabilities. It includes an uninstaller.
​
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sailmac and dabotsonline
J

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,260
kings79 said:
That's what I'm referring to.............
Click to expand...
That thread explains that there IS data transfer working - you just need to boot into Windows to get it setup and working in macOS. USB, DisplayPort, PCIe tunneling work. eGPU works in Windows. Issues are sleep/wake and hot plug of Thunderbolt devices. Hot plug of USB devices seems to be ok.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
joevt said:
That thread explains that there IS data transfer working - you just need to boot into Windows to get it setup and working in macOS. USB, DisplayPort, PCIe tunneling work. eGPU works in Windows. Issues are sleep/wake and hot plug of Thunderbolt devices. Hot plug of USB devices seems to be ok.
Click to expand...
I thought I read you had to boot into Windows before Mac OS EVERY time you powered up. Is that still correct?
 
J

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,260
PianoPro said:
I thought I read you had to boot into Windows before Mac OS EVERY time you powered up. Is that still correct?
Click to expand...
Only if you do a cold boot. Cold boot is when you power down the computer before starting it up again. Warm boot is when you just restart the computer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabotsonline
P

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
joevt said:
PianoPro said:
I thought I read you had to boot into Windows before Mac OS EVERY time you powered up. Is that still correct?
Click to expand...
Only if you do a cold boot. Cold boot is when you power down the computer before starting it up again. Warm boot is when you just restart the computer.
Click to expand...
OK thanks. That's what I thought I had read, and what I said. Every time you power up you have to go into Windows. That is totally unacceptable for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheStork
iGobbleoff

iGobbleoff

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2011
354
469
So I just bought a card and it needs power. I can draw from the second DVD drive. What kind of cable do I need?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom