USB-C. Huh?

[sn0warmy]

And I fully suspect the next iPhone to use USB-C or at least one of the models will be offered with it. Likely the highest level.

It's baffling to me that Apple would release the new MacBook Pro's with USB-C, knowing it's the future for peripheral connection, while also releasing the iPhone 7 with a lightening connection. I have no doubt that the next iPhone will have a USB-C connection but using the lightening connection in the iPhone 7 was very short sighted.

Apple fan boys think it's the Cat's Pajamas. Like tubular, ya know. Tripindicular.
More complete description.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

Not just Apple Fan boys. USB-C has been the connection of choice for the Android flagship devices for over a year now. In fact, we Android users have been wondering how long it would take for Apple to jump on the USB-C train. I'm pleased that they did it pretty quickly with their computers, at least.

Once they release an iPhone with USB-C it will be a great step in the right direction in being able to have a standard charging method that will work whether you have an Android phone or an iPhone.

 

[jerryk]

What's the chance a new spec comes out in a year or two as adoption rises, and everyone who jumps on now is on the out pretty quickly? Something like a USB 2 vs USB 3 scenario.

The USB standards group is always trying to advance, but this takes a while even when there is a lot of members pushing for change, liker there was for USB-C. It is an industry consortium and any changes to a spec must be reviewed, debated, and voted on. USB-C was formally proposed in 2011/2012, and had been circulating before then. It was approved in 2014. And only now is starting to be supported on over 3% of devices.

 

[sn0warmy]

It was approved in 2014. And only now is starting to be supported on over 3% of devices.

True, but that percentage is about to increase exponentially as practically all new Android devices have USB-C connections and with Apple's move to USB-C on their computers, it is extremely likely that the next iPhone will be USB-C as well.

 

[jackoatmon]

USB3-C/TB3 is objectively better in every possible measure than any previous serial bus I/O port.

Literally the only reason not to want it is because you don't want to replace a few cords.

Anyone who says otherwise is confused.

It is totally backward compatible, so it works with literally 100% of all previously issued USB compatible devices. Plus countless other I/O signals USB doesn't cover. Smaller, faster, and more efficiently. In all cases.

 

[mrex]

someone will say that it is for the future, but unfortunately we, atleast me, live this day and will have new computers in the future... what i have bought today, i wont be using it after few years... most of the periphials, you have now, dont have usbc. you wont get any benefits from it.

now it means that you need cables/dongles and it is one selling point to apple to get more profits to sell over-expensive cables/dongles to you with your new computer. and if you buy any new periphials, be sure, that it has usbc.

not saying that usbc is a bad thing, not at all, but ditching all current usb ports from mbp was the bad choice apple made. they didnt think about customers at all, imo.

 

[thesaint024]

Another abuse of absolutes. Until a usb-c port can safely teleport me and a group of friends and supplies safely to a habital planet in the Andromeda Galaxy and back at will you can't even come close to "literally ANYTHING".

What the ... are you talking about? Anyway, the potential to do anything is always better than a hard limit on the future. You can continue to lament this awful world of usb-c confusion for another 3-6 months. Then your computers with legacy ports will be closed to new peripherals while usb-c will continue to allow backward compatibility. I chose my direction. What will you post about when this "controversy" inevitably dies out like all the port losses in the past? I'm guessing you don't have a MBP16, because the usb-c controversy is a non issue for most owners, including myself. In fact, it is already an improvement for my workflow -single plug docking and not carrying around ports I don't use.

 

[AdonisSMU]

The problem with USB C isn't technology, it's that there still aren't very many devices available for it. If you go to an online computer store and do a search for USB C you may get a few hundred devices listed, with most of them being adapters (USB C to USB 3, etc). Do the same for USB 3 or 2 and you get thousands. Since when is Apple so concerned about "leading edge" technology? Wasn't this the same company that lagged on adapting USB 2 devices and instead kept using USB 1 devices on it's iBooks back in the day? A truly useful computer for the state of technology today would have multiple I/O ports...maybe one USB C, a few USB 3, a few Thunderbolt, and an direct ethernet connection. The new MacBook Pro is nothing but a toy for non-serious users.

My theory on the use of USB C in the new MacBook Pro is that Jony Ive probably thought other ports, like USB 3 and ethernet were ugly and they might additionally force the build to actually be slightly thicker (GASP!!!!!!). Jony Ive doesn't see the computer as a versatile tool, but a fashion accessory whose primary purpose is to look striking when Paris Hilton sashays across the front pages of the National Enquirer.

You do know Apple created the USB-C technology.
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someone will say that it is for the future, but unfortunately we, atleast me, live this day and will have new computers in the future... what i have bought today, i wont be using it after few years... most of the periphials, you have now, dont have usbc. you wont get any benefits from it.

now it means that you need cables/dongles and it is one selling point to apple to get more profits to sell over-expensive cables/dongles to you with your new computer. and if you buy any new periphials, be sure, that it has usbc.

not saying that usbc is a bad thing, not at all, but ditching all current usb ports from mbp was the bad choice apple made. they didnt think about customers at all, imo.

I'm sorry but dongles aren't nearly a profitable as iPhones, iPads and Macs.

 

[thesaint024]

someone will say that it is for the future, but unfortunately we, atleast me, live this day and will have new computers in the future... what i have bought today, i wont be using it after few years... most of the periphials, you have now, dont have usbc. you wont get any benefits from it.

now it means that you need cables/dongles and it is one selling point to apple to get more profits to sell over-expensive cables/dongles to you with your new computer. and if you buy any new periphials, be sure, that it has usbc.

not saying that usbc is a bad thing, not at all, but ditching all current usb ports from mbp was the bad choice apple made. they didnt think about customers at all, imo.

I am a customer. They sure thought about my needs which are quite mainstream. Not thinking about customers is hyperbole and you are referring to a small group who feel they need all possible ports built into their laptops. Most don't use most ports more than rarely.

 

[jackoatmon]

This happens every time I/O changes. That's actually why my avatar is a Commodore 5 1/2", because I remember going from that to CD-ROM, before USB1 or anything so sleek (even networking was new and rare at the time, something reserved for universities and computer stores), and no matter how much I loved those floppies, I knew they were gone forever the instant I copied something onto a CD-ROM.

Usually when someone's mad about I/O change it means they're new to caring about computer hardware.

 

[kis]

Extremely versatile port. It's the future

Wouldn't be so sure about that. The port has been around for about 2 years, yet adoption is absolutely glacial. It's hard to find peripherals that actually support it. Wouldn't be surprised if it were skipped altogether by most manufacturers in favour of the next iteration of the USB standard.

 

[chabig]

Wouldn't be so sure about that. The port has been around for about 2 years, yet adoption is absolutely glacial. It's hard to find peripherals that actually support it. Wouldn't be surprised if it were skipped altogether by most manufacturers in favour of the next iteration of the USB standard.

USB-C is the next generation USB connector. It'll probably be kept for years while the USB standard advances.

 

[jackoatmon]

It's hard to find peripherals that actually support it.

I don't think it's possible to make a peripheral that doesn't support it. Literally – what are you talking about? It's compatible with everything, including all previous versions of USB. Not to mention all other major I/O signals from the past 10 years.

The misinformation on this board ... sheesh.

 

[thesaint024]

It's baffling to me that Apple would release the new MacBook Pro's with USB-C, knowing it's the future for peripheral connection, while also releasing the iPhone 7 with a lightening connection. I have no doubt that the next iPhone will have a USB-C connection but using the lightening connection in the iPhone 7 was very short sighted.

Yeah, this is a great mystery. No idea what they are thinking or if they have some crazy master plan or if this is just an inconvenient time between standards. They sort of opened the floodgates for lightning accessories, especially with the 7 with even headphones now. TBH, I would be going all in on lightning headphones if the MBP had a lightning port. The fact that they left that out continues the suspense. I'm sure a lot of people will remain on the sidelines for headphones on until it's known. Who wants to spend $300 on headphones if they might be obsolete again in possibly the next release. Probably the main reason for iPhone not to go usb-c since they have a steady income stream with ALL lightning peripherals with their Mfi royalties. I guess a leak will come out ahead of the iPhone 8 launch this year. If it's still lightning, I would bet they won't go usb-c for the foreseeable future.

 

[sn0warmy]

You do know Apple created the USB-C technology.

You cannot be serious. Please tell me you do not truly believe Apple created USB-C. You must live under a rock (which you probably think Apple invented).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478121,00.asp

 

[Ulenspiegel]

...you are referring to a small group who feel they need all possible ports built into their laptops. Most don't use most ports more than rarely.

And your source is?

 

[Newtons Apple]

I know I am old school and know the the new USB-C will be forced on my in the long run but I would miss having my SD card reader and multiple USB ports on my laptop. Not so excited about the new MBook Pro units, especially after hearing about some of the other problems. Am I the only one who feels like we are sacrificing too much for Apple's obsession to make things thin.

Just my personal opinion

 

[BarracksSi]

This happens every time I/O changes. That's actually why my avatar is a Commodore 5 1/2", because I remember going from that to CD-ROM, before USB1 or anything so sleek (even networking was new and rare at the time, something reserved for universities and computer stores), and no matter how much I loved those floppies, I knew they were gone forever the instant I copied something onto a CD-ROM.

Usually when someone's mad about I/O change it means they're new to caring about computer hardware.

Yup. That's like the first time I copied files onto a USB thumb drive. "This little thing can hold how many floppies' worth? And I can just carry it on my keychain and it won't break? This is awesome!"

It takes time, but these peripheral connections and standards just keep getting better. We're not far from not having to worry about them anymore.

 

[AdonisSMU]

You cannot be serious. Please tell me you do not truly believe Apple created USB-C. You must live under a rock (which you probably think Apple invented).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478121,00.asp

That is up for debate. Its never been proven that Apple wasn't the sole contributor to the USBC spec.

 

[thesaint024]

And your source is?

My source is logical deduction based on personal observation. I am looking forward to how you deduced otherwise. I posit there are more regular "business"/productivity users than media pros or photographers. Without even looking up data, I can bet that is true. From my years of experience in the business/productivity world, it is uncommon to see users constantly sticking a wide variety of peripherals in and out of there laptops. They are typically docked at desk in some way or on the go, at most, a single connection is made for either a flash drive (usb-a), portable harddrive (usb-a), or a video out dongle (vga or hdmi typically, built in video ports often don't match the projectors or panels in the office), on rare occasion a mouse that is either bluetooth or usb a connection. However, when mobile (undocked), usually there is literally nothing attached except power. I don't believe I have ever seen a tb2 or firewire or SD card used in an office or travel environment. I have not seen an ethernet cable plugged in at all the last 10 years. I have seen ethernet plugged into docks, but when undocked, no one grabs an ethernet cable. There have been several anecdotal instances where not a single peripheral has been plugged in at all, ever. I have had work issue computers that I did not plug ANYTHING into for years. Yet after all this, our "business" computers continue to have every single known port and have not evolved in the past 10 years.

So we live in a mostly wireless world now, with some exceptions. Of course there are cases where this is not good enough and plugs and peripherals are needed. MR members are not representative of "regular" people like me. I'm definitely more on the extreme MR side of needing more variety of connections, and this works better for me.

So now I'd like to hear, why you would have reason to believe that a) "regular" productivity users don't greatly outnumber media professionals and b) my experience and observations across many years at several different work environments is not representative of regular use cases. Students and everyone else besides media professionals have workflows not much different than us productivity users. Maybe a flash drive is used more frequently or some other minor variation, but I'm pretty sure they are not plugging in more than one plug when on the go, just thinking about this logically and observing other uses. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't troll me with your one line rebuttal. Please state your case if you are not trolling.
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Wouldn't be so sure about that. The port has been around for about 2 years, yet adoption is absolutely glacial. It's hard to find peripherals that actually support it. Wouldn't be surprised if it were skipped altogether by most manufacturers in favour of the next iteration of the USB standard.

These are not really your thoughts are they? I don't think you'll find anyone on any forum to agree with this. USB-c/TB3 is supported by all manufacturers across different types of devices. It's being forced by Apple, but PC and phone manufacturers are willingly jumping on. There are no foreseeable competing technologies. There has never been any standard as flexible. There are no royalties as it is a non-proprietary standard. There is no "skipping" over this.

 

[pmau]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't troll me with your one line rebuttal. Please state your case if you are not trolling.

A mobile working environment does not mean you need no connectivity.
Let me explain my point of view.

You are correct that most people do not need all the connectivity that is still present, but there is some benefit you might consider. If you buy a MacBook with HDMI, Ethernet, USB, DisplayPort and Audio In / Out, you are not only buying these ports, you are also buying the chipset components that drive these components.

Your GPU provides HDMI and DisplayPort signals, reading its own VRAM.
Your Ethernet port is using a chip from Intel, Broadcom or anything you might imagine
Your USB Ports are behind a USB Host Controller, providing the power and protocol safety.

Apple removes all of that and shifts the burden for stability a reliability to vendors that sell you $30 adapters.
These adapters might or might not work well in any combination.

I work at an office, but we have no assign desks. Sometimes I need a VGA connector for a conferencing system, if I work on projects on the corporate network I"m required to use Ethernet for security reasons.

I need a USB headset to answer calls at my desk, I need HDMI to connect to my desk monitor.

The point is, we don't need these ports all the time, but shuffling adapters and fighting incompatibilities is definitely a big step backwards.

The TouchBar is only useful if you are not looking at an external monitor.
The large trackpad is disturbing if you need to sit comfortably and want the keyboard closer to the edge of your desk.
Uf you need a keyboard, you probably leave a USB keyboard and a wired mouse at your office,

What Apple describes as great flexibility is not for people who need to focus on their work and have everything ready with as little hassle as possible.

You can do all of that with a new MacBook, but you are still much better of with a machine that suits your needs in as many situations as possible.

Ports do not waste space except the MacBook footprint might be a little larger.
Short inflexible adapter cables on both sides of your MacBook do waste space, in my opinion they are terrible.

Of course everyone works in different ways, but whenever I can, I still use a mechanical USB keyboard and a wired USB mouse.

Everything else is great for checking mail in a boring meeting, our walking over to your colleague with your MacBook at hand, but it's not at all the future.

 

[JohnnyGo]

USB-c/TB3 is supported by all manufacturers across different types of devices. It's being forced by Apple, but PC and phone manufacturers are willingly jumping on. There are no foreseeable competing technologies. There has never been any standard as flexible. There are no royalties as it is a non-proprietary standard. There is no "skipping" over this.

Indeed. The USB Foundation is the one pushing for the new standard. It's a smaller plug with much more versatility than previous USB formats.

Is it a bit confusing right now ? Yes. Will it hurt early adopters ? No, as long as they do their due diligence before purchasing cables and hubs. Not all USB-C is created equal.
- data speeds
- charging (PD) capacity
- video output / frequency/ resolution

The fact that mobile phones and tablets will adopt USB C makes it a standard that will become cheaper and common place faster than any previous standard.

 

[pmau]

Phones and Tablets only need a very small subset of functionality. They only benefit from the common connector.
TB3 with all the protocol adaption is way more complicated. This is why it is nearly irrelevant for mobile devices, but hurts all Laptop users.

 

[Jefe's MacAir]

You cannot be serious. Please tell me you do not truly believe Apple created USB-C. You must live under a rock (which you probably think Apple invented).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478121,00.asp

That is up for debate. Its never been proven that Apple wasn't the sole contributor to the USBC spec.

I have no clue but, USB-C appears to be the exact opposite of Lightening cords. Meaning that the female in now the male and inserted, thus 'protected', by the host device. The Lightening male is the same width and only slightly thicker, likely for durability reasons, than the male connector of USB-C.

 

[thesaint024]

A mobile working environment does not mean you need no connectivity.
Let me explain my point of view.

You are correct that most people do not need all the connectivity that is still present, but there is some benefit you might consider. If you buy a MacBook with HDMI, Ethernet, USB, DisplayPort and Audio In / Out, you are not only buying these ports, you are also buying the chipset components that drive these components.

Your GPU provides HDMI and DisplayPort signals, reading its own VRAM.
Your Ethernet port is using a chip from Intel, Broadcom or anything you might imagine
Your USB Ports are behind a USB Host Controller, providing the power and protocol safety.

Apple removes all of that and shifts the burden for stability a reliability to vendors that sell you $30 adapters.
These adapters might or might not work well in any combination.

I work at an office, but we have no assign desks. Sometimes I need a VGA connector for a conferencing system, if I work on projects on the corporate network I"m required to use Ethernet for security reasons.

I need a USB headset to answer calls at my desk, I need HDMI to connect to my desk monitor.

The point is, we don't need these ports all the time, but shuffling adapters and fighting incompatibilities is definitely a big step backwards.

The TouchBar is only useful if you are not looking at an external monitor.
The large trackpad is disturbing if you need to sit comfortably and want the keyboard closer to the edge of your desk.
Uf you need a keyboard, you probably leave a USB keyboard and a wired mouse at your office,

What Apple describes as great flexibility is not for people who need to focus on their work and have everything ready with as little hassle as possible.

You can do all of that with a new MacBook, but you are still much better of with a machine that suits your needs in as many situations as possible.

Ports do not waste space except the MacBook footprint might be a little larger.
Short inflexible adapter cables on both sides of your MacBook do waste space, in my opinion they are terrible.

Of course everyone works in different ways, but whenever I can, I still use a mechanical USB keyboard and a wired USB mouse.

Everything else is great for checking mail in a boring meeting, our walking over to your colleague with your MacBook at hand, but it's not at all the future.

Point taken, and I was not suggesting NO ONE needed connectivity. But I would think your case might be less common than most. My point is that I am speaking about the majority of users (like me).

That is a good point about shifting the burden of reliability to any vendor. However, I'm seeing the upside in that that's what allows these ports to do anything. I'm waiting for a usb-c dGPU just for the coolness of it. Something like that would not be possible in the old world. I also wouldn't want the complication of that ALWAYS having that with me since it would rarely be used. Also, if we needed to continually shop for adapters throughout the time we own the laptop, that could be annoying and disruptive. But usually, like in my case, you do your search for adapters and cables once, and then there is no more interruption in your workflow. This will improve over time as vendors will test against MBP's and not whatever was out there prior to the release.

The various offices I've been in have aggressively implementing and supporting wifi. In certain more secure environments, that may not be the case, but again, probably pretty rare. Also, not trying to speak for you or your office, but in my experience, the unassigned desks typically have docks for company issued computers. That's all subject to change with these new MBP's, but docks are really the best way to handle that type of setup. If you have a non-standard computer in just generic desk workstations, then yes, that is a problem. However, there is an upside again to your situation. If you have a dongle with say, ethernet and usb-a and video and power delivery, that is literally one plug to remove and plug in. Those docks are not very big, and frankly, I'm glad I don't have to carry around those ports so that YOU can have them at all times. No offense, just being selfish.

As far as space savings, yeah, those ports individually may not be much by themselves, but collectively, 5 different ports that only do one thing each that I need to carry all the time? I feel like it's a smart decision and pleases me. When we're talking about shaving mm's and 0.5 lbs, I would guess that those ports made a major contribution to that.

My point to all of this is for MOST people, these things are probably good things. For some like you, there are definitely upsides that may not have made their way into your workflow yet. I am just saying, once people give this new world a chance, it's hard to say that it's all bad. If it is, paying this much for the new MBP probably isn't the right choice. People with your workflow may need to wait for everything matures. My only point for the fella I was addressing, is that these are likely non factors to MOST of us. I respect your perspective and has made me think about the new world a little differently.

 

[pmau]

Point taken, and I was not suggesting NO ONE needed connectivity. But I would think your case might be less common than most. My point is that I am speaking about the majority of users (like me).

Not wanting to quote everything you just wrote, let me just add that I enjoy an open discussion that does not start with "You are wrong", etc. I appreciate it, since it's not common theses days

I would really enjoy seeing versatile USB-C connected devices, but right now it's just not practical.
Apple has "over innovated" this model, removing lots of features that are still needed today.

And here's the point: They simply removed the options for last years model/

If the last Retina MBP would sell today with an updated Skylake Chipset, a modern AMD GPU as offered today, and one TB3 port, this thing would sell like crazy.

I personally know at least 5 people who returned their brand new 15" model just because the additional speed is not justifying the price and the limited flexibility.

It is great hardware, it will be the standard in two years, but people like me are disappointed and have to skip this vision of a future mobile computing workplace.

I don"t hate the new model, and besides the battery and price discussion, I honestly think nobody really does.
It's just the complete removal of alternatives with decent BTO options that causes most of the negative press.

I'm certain that you yourself might as well enjoy a USB port to use your old iPhone cables, your USB3 SSD or any other external device you might have purchased in the last two years.

I know you still can, but I truly believe Apple was arrogant and people do know they can get better specs for way less money. Not the build quality, I agree that Apple is at the very top of the game there.

But specs and pricing is not the best Apple could have delivered and I do believe they know.

Again, thank you for your open discussion.