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Using a PowerMac G4 as a server-ish macine?

iTunes was fine up to about 30000 tracks. once i got beyond that, browsing through the library would spark a beachball on occasions. That's about it tho. Serving the files thru iTunes shared Libraries onto the other machines doesn't cause the same problems, so i'm guessing it's just the size of the database that iTunes is struggling with displaying on the G3 (which was a 350, but i overclocked it to 400).

And it might not even have that problem if i wasn't running the web side in behind it.

The card is a basic PCI RAID card from Acard, thru OWC for i think around $70. (might have been less, i think it was NZ$100 shipped)

The B&Ws are a bit clunky when it comes to mounting the three drives along the bottom of the case, but workable.

They will only take 256MB DIMMs (PC100 or 133), so the max is 1GB
The G4 450s i think will go 1.5GB (Everymac is a great site for old mac specs)

People tend to overestimate just how much grunt you need for this kind of thing i think. I'm hoping to upgrade it to a Mini when i can afford it (and the MiniStack enclosures go SATA) - but more for aesthetic and noise reasons than performance.

G4s have the advantage that they're bootable from Firewire - but that's only a consideration for me because i want a bootable backup for the webserving in case of emergency. And the later PowerMacs (MDD i think) will take large drives natively without the need for a add-on card
 
frankblundt said:
G4s have the advantage that they're bootable from Firewire - but that's only a consideration for me because i want a bootable backup for the webserving in case of emergency. And the later PowerMacs (MDD i think) will take large drives natively without the need for a add-on card
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the info, you've been really helpful! I'm not too familiar with the terminology around old macs. What model G4 should I look at, were I to go that route? I can get a G3 tower for around $100, but if its going to cost me $70 for the card, I'd rather just find a $170-200 G4 instead. I just don't know what the minimums that I should look for are.

Did you get the firewire network to work?
 
i've never tried the firewire network thing, because i have a router already and do networking through that.
There's bound to be other threads here on it tho.

As to which machine, i couldn't say, as it comes down to a cost/benefit toss up, dependent on what's available at what price.

The expansion card is expensive, but means you can RAID two drives into a single volume (splitting iTunes across two volumes is a pain for managing the library), it's faster than using a single drive (if you use striping), cheaper than buying one large drive at current pricing (if as in my case you need 500GB) and less dangerous and faster than running two drives off the same IDE channel.

If you go with the cheap form factors (iMac, Mini) you have to balance it out against the cost of external enclosures (or a dual-drive enclosure) and the added mess of cabling and power cords and the noise of extra fans.

If you want the convenience of internal drive housing, then you're stuck with the Powermac, which like i mentioned, doesn't have built in ATA-6 (137GB+ drive) support until about the G4 MDD 1.25GHz models, which (here anyway) are a lot more expensive than the lower end G4s and G3s. Unless you can pick up one of those for not too much more than the earlier models (bearing in mind the performance increase), or you can live with 120GB drives, then the RAID card is a good bet.

The RAM for the old Macs is a lot cheaper second-hand too, because the PC100 and 133 DIMMs are the same as were used in a lot of Pentium3 era PCs that are being junked now and their components flogged off.

Personally, if i were doing it over, for budgetary reasons, i'd still get a B&W (saw one the other day for NZ$150). For better performance at a still reasonable price i'd go something like a Quicksilver G4 733 (the best looking PM IMO, currently around NZ$600 ). The MDD are still going for NZ$1000 which is more than i'm willing to stretch to. For pure gorgeousness with price no object, a Mini with a MiniStack enclosure and a 500GB drive.

Actually, i'm not sure i'm all that reliable as a guide - i also buy cheap old cars, and then spend vast amounts on keeping them running...
 
Hi guys,

Got the PowerMac and the PowerBook hooked up together today, although i'm very very new to networking and haven't a clue how to get them to recognise eachother.

I have tried both the built in Ethernet and built in FireWire, but i have no idea when it comes ot the IvP address or the DHCP la de da!!

What do i need to do, from scratch to use the PowerMac as an external server when i'm working on my PowerBook...?

Rich.
 
for the networking there's some info in this thread

via ethernet (under Tiger at least) apple seems to think it's pretty straightforward.

I couldn't find any further help on Firewire, sorry, apart from Target Disk Mode which probably isn't what you're after

You may need to set Ip adresses manually for both macs:
Sys Prefs > Network > Built In Ethernet >
Configure IPv4: "Manually"
IP address: 192.168.0.10 (can be whatever you like really, but the first three numbers are the most common for internal networks - and just make sure the last number is different on the two machines - eg 192.168.0.11 for the other one)
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0 (means, kind of, ignore the first three numbers, so make sure they're the same on both machines)
 
Thanks a lot for the reply,

About the Ethernet networking, i read that same guide on my Panther help, but for some reason, when i got to the last part, the password, i've never set up a password so i have no idea what it is. I have tried all the passwords it could be but none are correct. I have never set up a password. Strange.

I'm gonna have to try your IvP advice though, and the subnet, that's great thanks!

Rich.

frankblundt said:
for the networking there's some info in this thread

via ethernet (under Tiger at least) apple seems to think it's pretty straightforward.

I couldn't find any further help on Firewire, sorry, apart from Target Disk Mode which probably isn't what you're after

You may need to set Ip adresses manually for both macs:
Sys Prefs > Network > Built In Ethernet >
Configure IPv4: "Manually"
IP address: 192.168.0.10 (can be whatever you like really, but the first three numbers are the most common for internal networks - and just make sure the last number is different on the two machines - eg 192.168.0.11 for the other one)
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0 (means, kind of, ignore the first three numbers, so make sure they're the same on both machines)
Click to expand...
 
Ok, I have the opportunity to buy this machine for $100:
Powermac G3 400mhz
448 MB Ram
PCI ATI rage 128 Video Card
PCI SCSI card
80 GB Hard drive
2 Firewire Ports
2 Usb Ports
1 Ethernet Port
Mac OSX 10.3 installed

I have two questions: Is it worth the $100 (and if not, what do you think its worth)? Will it handle what we're talking about here?
 
munckee said:
Ok, I have the opportunity to buy this machine for $100:
Powermac G3 400mhz
448 MB Ram
PCI ATI rage 128 Video Card
PCI SCSI card
80 GB Hard drive
2 Firewire Ports
2 Usb Ports
1 Ethernet Port
Mac OSX 10.3 installed

I have two questions: Is it worth the $100 (and if not, what do you think its worth)? Will it handle what we're talking about here?
Click to expand...


$100?? my keychain is $100.
of course it's worth it :)
 
munckee said:
Ok, I have the opportunity to buy this machine for $100:
Powermac G3 400mhz
448 MB Ram
PCI ATI rage 128 Video Card
PCI SCSI card
80 GB Hard drive
2 Firewire Ports
2 Usb Ports
1 Ethernet Port
Mac OSX 10.3 installed

I have two questions: Is it worth the $100 (and if not, what do you think its worth)? Will it handle what we're talking about here?
Click to expand...

Hmm..I'd look around for a powermac g4, something that lets you add a bigger hard drive (that was a problem when I had a g3). The price shouldn't be much at all, you get more speed (not that much) and room to expand.
 
FF_productions said:
Hmm..I'd look around for a powermac g4, something that lets you add a bigger hard drive (that was a problem when I had a g3). The price shouldn't be much at all, you get more speed (not that much) and room to expand.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm kinda leaning toward a G4 as well. The ide controller to add more hardrives to the G3 will cost $70 by itself.
 
Well, I managed to pick up a G3 B/W for free, so that made my decision pretty easy. I'm trying to get this up and running for as little as possible. I need:

-pci raid card: I don't really want to pay $70; will this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultra-ATA-133-I...786826410QQcategoryZ39968QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or something similar off ebay work? Does it require the use of 2 hard drives, or will it run one with no problem?

-ram: where's the best (and by that I mean absolute cheapest/free) place to buy pc100/pc133 ram? Does it all have to be the same (pc100 or pc133) or can I mix and match?

Thanks guys!
 
munckee said:
Well, I managed to pick up a G3 B/W for free, so that made my decision pretty easy. I'm trying to get this up and running for as little as possible. I need:

-pci raid card: I don't really want to pay $70; will this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultra-ATA-133-I...786826410QQcategoryZ39968QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or something similar off ebay work?
Click to expand...

Firstly, no, it won't work as it is for PCs only. You need a ATA controller card for Macs. I'll link you to a few after I answer your other question or questions.
munckee said:
Does it require the use of 2 hard drives, or will it run one with no problem?
Click to expand...

You really don't want a RAID card unless you want to run a raid, which I don't recommend unless your into high performance drive use (beyond normal computing). But, you could use a raid card as a regular controller if you wanted, but you'd simply pay more for it. You really want a regular ATA 133 controller for Macs.

munckee said:
-ram: where's the best (and by that I mean absolute cheapest/free) place to buy pc100/pc133 ram? Does it all have to be the same (pc100 or pc133) or can I mix and match?
Click to expand...

The cheapest is ebay, but it is risky because some PC ram may or may not work depending on the exact configuration. The best and cheapest way to buy new, compatible Mac ram is by checking the prices with http://www.ramseeker.com. I have bought from Data Memory Systems, 1-800-4-Memory, MemoryTen, and RamDirect all with success and all having good working ram. The ram sticks at 256 mb are around $25-$27 from a few of these companies and I would recommend going that route.

As for your ATA card:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Acard-PCI-U...ryZ80044QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8787729472

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Acard-PCI-U...ryZ39969QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sonnet-Tempo-AT...ryZ39967QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
Well I do the same,

I have all my iTunes shared from my iMac DC 20", it runs fine, The responses people have given you about a G4 being slow, just ignore them. a G4 can easlier fill a 100MBit 100baseT network with data, so the bus speed are not a factor, unless you are going to Giga bit 1000baseT.

I have an external FW drive which I used to back up the files of my iMac. I thinking of purchasing a Mac mini solo, when Mac OS server comes out and make a real server. with external drives for more space and backup. It will make a perfect solution for a home / small office solution.

Servers do not need lots of memory or fast drives to be effective. What make a serve good it puting the data on the network. and 100baseT is easy to fill using any old MAC.

Good Luck
 
A G4 is more than enough for a server. Hell, I'm using a Rev D G3 iMac for a file server. It was a b***h getting it to work with a 400gig HD.
 
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