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Maybe the most important objective is to nudge Apple towards continuing to update macOS, so that newer non-Apple PC's continue to gain operating system support for their updated hardware Hackintoshes?
HP's Z8 product line seems like an ideal fit, if Apple were to officially license macOS to run on HP's Z8 machines. They could add in a T2 chip (or other small motherboard chip) to try and keep macOS from running on most other non-HP & non-Apple machines. I think Apple & HP have a previous history of working together, such as an Apple digital camera, about 20 years ago. And as a twelve year old high school student in 1968, Steve Jobs himself had a summer time job working at HP in Palo Alto.
Actually, for a long time I've argued that Apple should license OSX on *all* of the Z-series. The Z8 is overkill for most, but the Z6 and Z4 are also nice mid-range systems that would blow away any Apple MP ever built.

No need to make a proprietary motherboard with a T2 processor - the regular Intel TPM chip could easily be used to lock down the OS.
 
Actually, for a long time I've argued that Apple should license OSX on *all* of the Z-series. The Z8 is overkill for most, but the Z6 and Z4 are also nice mid-range systems that would blow away any Apple MP ever built.

No need to make a proprietary motherboard with a T2 processor - the regular Intel TPM chip could easily be used to lock down the OS.
It just makes so much sense... Apple can limit the licensed machines to those that don't directly compete with its own computers.
 
....

Until Intel has concrete dates for Xeon chips, it's pointless to get worked up much.

Intel has said Cascade Lake ( Xeon SP) was to be Q4 2018. ( SC 18 Supercomputer Conference is Nov 11-16 probably will get more clarity at that point whether that has slid how much into 2019 . ) That is probably going to slide a bit due to the 14nm log jam for "normal" vendors. ( Google , Amazon, MS Azure , some SC vendors will get theirs first. )

Normally the -W ( which uses a variant of some of those dies and substantially different packaging) would follow within a month or two. That appears to be a bit muddled. Probably because of Threadripper 2 timing, Intel is doing a "Skylake-X Refresh " for the HEDT variant of the Intel -W's baseline.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13402/intel-basin-falls-refresh-core-i9-9980xe

No meltdown/spectre fixes. They are just partially removing the PCI-e lane kneecapping they did to desktop line up (still don't get full 48 ) and activating the caches (even without associated cores ). And keeping the pricing the same. I'm not sure how that will 'save' them competitive sag much at the top end of the mix, but it is probably something they can limp on a very mature process/die they have been doing for a long time.

Intel may skip doing that weak 'Refresh' with Xeon W. The PCI-e lanes already were not kneecapped so there is absolutely nothing to 'refresh' there. A 'refresh' that only amounts to some incremental L3 space on the lower half of the product line up is extremely marginally useful. Having no Meltdown/spectre fixes means still taking the same perf hit. Someone at Intel would be smoking lots of something if they thought that was really going to make a difference competing with TR2.

I suspect they will just limp along with W in its current state until late Feb- early March (when the initial demand bubble for Xeon SP dies down a bit) and then do W with the Cascade baseline ( fixes and maybe more cache at the lower end. ). Intel's $1B is suppose to get more 14nm capacity online around March-April 2019, so they could move forward at that point. ( and in late April - June dump this relatively lame desktop X "refresh" too. )

Intel may be desperate though and do a super lame Xeon W "refresh". ( AMD is going to lob some hand grenades towards Intel's direction next week. ( https://www.anandtech.com/show/13538/amd-investor-relations-next-horizon-november-6th ) Post the SC 19 conference it all should be move clear (because AMD and Intel will be lots of "We're better than them" talking around that time and he Workstation stuff should indirectly fall out of all that. ) .


At this point I would expect WWDC though.

WWDC to ship perhaps, but I'd expect them to do/say something before that. If Apple is almost ready but the Intel part slide then they'd wait until just how far the slide was going to be to until start talking.

Even if Apple did something completely bonehead and only had a partially complete system at this point so that they are targeting late 2019, they'd still need to cough up a much fine tuned timing window around April 2019. The substantial problem is going to be even if Apple doesn't uptake on those Q1- earlyQ2 new Intel W's, their competitors are. The iMac Pro also appearing to start to go stale is just going to add to the smell coming of the MP 2013. If their now annual "dog ate my homework" meeting happens to approximately match up with the competitors actually doing something, that is worse than just the "dog ate my homework" meeting by itself.


[ The new Mini is beating the general iMacs on CPU heavily workloads. It is hard to believe that Apple is going to 'coast' on that for another 7 months in another "can't say anything until WWDC" move. There is no good reason for Apple to throw away the first half of 2019 playing dumb. ]


Also, given the moves to the mini, I'm curious what the iMac line will look like. I can't see them going all-flash unless they update the chassis at the same time, but at the same time I'd love for them to finally leave spinning boot drives behind even if it comes with a dumb price increase.

Apple doesn't need to update the iMac chassis to go all Flash. They could just do it ( and just not repurpose the saved 3.5" space for anything. ). Backsliding from a two drive system to a one drive system doesn't need much but a logic board change ( to remove the 2nd drive connector).

That wouldn't get them much better thermal cooling capacity, but they could switch.

The price increase isn't 'dumb'. There are more than a few Mini folks (for the lower end of old price spectrum) who are not very happy at point.
 
Maybe the most important objective is to nudge Apple towards continuing to update macOS, so that newer non-Apple PC's continue to gain operating system support for their updated hardware Hackintoshes?
HP's Z8 product line seems like an ideal fit, if Apple were to officially license macOS to run on HP's Z8 machines. They could add in a T2 chip (or other small motherboard chip) to try and keep macOS from running on most other non-HP & non-Apple machines. I think Apple & HP have a previous history of working together, such as on an Apple digital camera, about 25 years ago. And as a 13 year old high school student in summer 1968, Steve Jobs himself had a product assembly job working at HP in Palo Alto. Steve Wozniak was also employed at HP for a while.


Rhapsody represented a new strategy for Apple, who intended the operating system to run on x86-based PCs and DEC Alpha workstations....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_(operating_system)
 
Intel has said Cascade Lake ( Xeon SP) was to be Q4 2018. ( SC 18 Supercomputer Conference is Nov 11-16 probably will get more clarity at that point whether that has slid how much into 2019 . ) That is probably going to slide a bit due to the 14nm log jam for "normal" vendors. ( Google , Amazon, MS Azure , some SC vendors will get theirs first. )

Normally the -W ( which uses a variant of some of those dies and substantially different packaging) would follow within a month or two. That appears to be a bit muddled. Probably because of Threadripper 2 timing, Intel is doing a "Skylake-X Refresh " for the HEDT variant of the Intel -W's baseline.
[...]

The price increase isn't 'dumb'. There are more than a few Mini folks (for the lower end of old price spectrum) who are not very happy at point.

Thanks for the updates.

I don't really understand those mini folks, then. Yeah, the price increase is steep, and I'm totally of the opinion that Apple's attempts to goose ASP in the face of stagnating PC sales is only going to put them into a death spiral, but you're getting *way more* for that increase than you were for the old $500. Even to casual users I couldn't recommend a spinning hard drive and 4GB of RAM in 2018, and I barely could in 2014 either. Spending more to get a much more useful system is I think a far better tradeoff when the $500 model only exists to hit a price point, not actually create a good product.

There never was a good Mac mini at the $500 price point. Ever. My hope is that like the MacBook Air we ultimately get a $599/699 and $999 SKU back, but IMO I don't think Apple should even bother trying to compete on the low end if they aren't going to make a good product.

And yeah, I think there's plenty of opportunity for them to show off, demo, and release new hardware before WWDC (and they used to do this quite often.) I just don't want to get worked up about the "obvious" outside view :p
 
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DrBs3EOXgAUISU4.jpg:large


At least it looks like the new displays is on the way :D - from the getting started guide on the new Mac Mini
 
Actually, for a long time I've argued that Apple should license OSX on *all* of the Z-series. The Z8 is overkill for most, but the Z6 and Z4 are also nice mid-range systems that would blow away any Apple MP ever built.

No need to make a proprietary motherboard with a T2 processor - the regular Intel TPM chip could easily be used to lock down the OS.

Even something like a Apple T2 chip pcie card would be neat. Maybe with built in nvme flash boot drive for OSX. Heck, throw Thunderbolt on there. Make it so OSX can only run on a machine with that card installed.
 
If this was the deliberate business strategy, they would have removed the RAM door on the 2012 iMacs and not gone back to UDIMMs for the Mac Mini. I'm not saying Apple doesn't love money they get from charging overhead on BTO upgrades, but my point was that it's clearly not their sole motivation or even their primary one, it's just a natural end result of their priorities. People can and should vote with their wallets when that clashes with their own priorities.
They did remove access to RAM in the 21” iMac in 2012 and have never restored it.

They also removed it from the MacBook Pro in 2013 and never restored it. And removed it from the Mac mini in 2014 and never restored it (including the new one). The MacBook Air launched without access to RAM as far back as 2008 and never had it added in later models. The iMac Pro launched without user access to RAM. And yes, the the new Mac mini does not have user access to RAM either. Having SO-DIMMs only means that it can be upgraded later by an Apple Authorised Service Provider, same as for the iMac Pro.

That seems like a bit of a trend to me.

The Mac Pro and the 27” iMac are the only remaining Macs in the portfolio with user access to RAM. They’re anomalies at this point. I fully expect that the next iMac 27” refresh will remove that RAM access too, to bring it in line with the iMac Pro and the rest of the fleet.

I never said that it’s their “sole motivation”, or that it’s even “their primary one”. We don’t have enough evidence to make that kind of assertion. Just that it seems that there has been a systematic removal of access to RAM (and user-upgradeability more broadly) across the fleet, and that seems to be indicative of a deliberate strategy to me. But you can choose to believe that it isn’t, and that Apple would be provididing that upgradeability if they could. I’m just not sure how you can square that with the available evidence.
 
Even something like a Apple T2 chip pcie card would be neat.

Any removable card ( PCI-e standard or otherwise ) is close to useless. That fails the primary security criteria mission that the T2 is suppose to provide. There is also no reasonable practical way for it to serve as the power management hub and firmware copy loader if off on a "remote from logic board" card. It is like having a easily detachable lock on the front door of your house.

If talking about decoupling the SSD controller from the T2 and putting that on a PCI-e perhaps. But that is a 'new' product. That isn't the T2.

Boo hoo the T2 shouldn't do so much. Well that is why it is affordable to put into the Mac. Apple is heavily borrowing from their A-series SoC. A system on a chip all about integration ( and narrowing the costs via much bigger transistor budgets and volume manufacturing. ). Splitting off the SSD controller is just as likely going to make it higher overall system cost solution over time given what the major driver what the Apple SoC is actually driven by.


That said the next Mac Pro should have some way to internally add a third party SSD (with third party controller). The T2 is fine for the primary boot security and authentication, but many folks are just going to want more capacity (and/or alternative OS options) and that isn't the best match of values for the T2 (and associated NAND).
 
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I just start to give up on Apple computers. Again. I went to hiatus for a 6-12 months, seems like it's time to do that again. How effing hard can it be to have modern GPU(s), a decent 8+ core CPU and a 10GbE in one package with decent cooling. With price that is not that out of proportions compared to what other computers go for these days. I guess that's supposed to be the iMac Pro.
 
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How probable, in your opinion, is that MP 7.1 will be capable of driving one or two 8K monitors like, for example, Dell UltraSharp 32 8K (7680 x 4320 at 60 Hz, uncompressed)?
 
How probable, in your opinion, is that MP 7.1 will be capable of driving one or two 8K monitors like, for example, Dell UltraSharp 32 8K (7680 x 4320 at 60 Hz, uncompressed)?

Natively ? Doesn't that require like dual DP or dual HDMI connections ? If so.. then 0% confidence as two cables is extremely non-elegant in Apple's playbook. However if this could be solved by a dongle, those are very elegant and even sanctioned by Apple. So if one were to hide a GPU in a dongle, give it a fancy name like iGPU or even eGPU, well certainly then the confidence grows a little bit.

</tongue in cheek post>
 
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How probable, in your opinion, is that MP 7.1 will be capable of driving one or two 8K monitors like, for example, Dell UltraSharp 32 8K (7680 x 4320 at 60 Hz, uncompressed)?

While the question of just how the Mac Pro will handle GPUs and Thunderbolt, I'd guess that it would at least be physically capable. Apple clearly thinks that "pro" level external expansion equates to four TB3 ports (on the iMac Pro and now the Mac mini). Assuming they dedicate two busses like they did on the 6,1 that'd be enough for one 8K60 monitor.

I'm not entirely sure how to read the marketing speak for Intel's Titan Ridge—can the TB3 ports do uncompressed 8K via DP1.4 or just some compressed version?
 
How probable, in your opinion, is that MP 7.1 will be capable of driving one or two 8K monitors like, for example, Dell UltraSharp 32 8K (7680 x 4320 at 60 Hz, uncompressed)?
DisplayPort 1.4 can drive a 8K display with Display Stream Compression (DSC) enabled at 60 Hz or at 30 Hz without.

If you use two DP1.4 connections and the display is using Multi- Stream Transport (MST) it could also run at 60 Hz.
 
Interesting they actually tried coming up with numbers for upgrades. 20% seems about right.

This line is also pretty key:
If Apple wanted to reassure those of us who do want the ability to upgrade, it only needed to say one thing -- PCI-E. If the company had said that at any time in the many chances it's had to tell us anything further, we'd know so much more. Instead, we've still gotten "modular," repeated.

Even just offering one or two PCIe slots would make it a far more flexible machine to any prospective buyers, and I definitely think that's probably more than anything else the biggest potential differentiator to justify its existence in the lineup.
 
Interesting they actually tried coming up with numbers for upgrades. 20% seems about right.

This line is also pretty key:


Even just offering one or two PCIe slots would make it a far more flexible machine to any prospective buyers, and I definitely think that's probably more than anything else the biggest potential differentiator to justify its existence in the lineup.
apple can use EXT-pci but with TB you do need an base video chip in the main unit and with an desktop CPU that's 8-16 of the 16 cpu pci-e lanes gone.
 
I fear, the "new" Mac Pro to be an just updated trashcan with dua Vega and Navi GPU plus Xeon Patinum CPU (the same as the iMac Pro), basically a headless iMac Pro with dual GPUs, and *maybe* 6 Ram Slots for upto 192GB Ram BTO (unless you DIY upgrade with 32GB RDIMM, so 384GB maximun), maybe Apple to offer this with 600W psu and Copper Thermal core, alt least this time the GPU should feature a true Fabric interconnect.

Amazingly it will be 6X faster than the 6,1 tc ...
 
There never was a good Mac mini at the $500 price point. Ever.
There was at least one. The Mac Mini 3,1 with 2.GHz Core 2 Duo was the first Intel Mac Mini with decent onboard graphics courtesy of Nvidia Geforce 9400M & the price was around $500. I know as I bought one when it was released in March 2009 & the price was €500 plus tax.
 
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