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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

I've been excitedly waiting for the new Mac Pro, even though the waiting game has been a bit like Groundhog Day. I had a Mac Pro 1,1 and because of the lack of upgrade options I kept that as my main machine for 7 and a half years before my trashcan 6,1 arrived. The 6,1 wasn't terrible by any means although I did miss the internal storage. I was interested to see if that would come back in the new MP next year.

However, when my 4K monitor died earlier this month and my trashcan was starting to throw the odd kernel panic (perhaps those things were connected, who knows) I started having a rapid rethink. Not wanting to pay for expensive repairs to kit that was going to be replaced in a few months anyway, I decided to look at other options.

I considered a well spec'd up Mac Mini a new 4K or 5K monitor and also looked at the iMac Pro. I've never been remotely interested in an iMac before. The AIO design isn't something I was interested in - surely it would just get too hot? However the base iMac Pro is an excellent spec and includes the new monitor I need built right in so I did something I thought I'd never do in a million years - I bought an iMac (Pro).

I've had the new machine for a week and I have to say it's really rather good.

It's no secret that Apple have been dropping massive hints that the "Pro" market can be served by many different configurations. Gone are the days when a Pro user would always get Apple's tower (or rubbish bin) design of computer. Even the new iPad Pro could do the trick for some markets, unbelievably.

I feel pretty sure that the 2019 Mac Pro will be a beast of a machine and I suspect that Apple will be aiming this at people who carry out really CPU intensive tasks. The rest of us could be served by other machines in their lineup.

I realised that not being able to upgrade the machine, something that was very important to me in 2006 when I bought my Mac Pro 1,1, just doesn't matter so much now and that's taken me down a path that even a year ago seemed extremely unlikely.

I'm still excited to see what's coming next year, but for now I'm a very happy camper. And let's all just celebrate the fact that Apple, who seemed to all have forgotten about desktop pro users a few years ago, will soon have a complete range of options for every professional user (hopefully). Happy days!

Right, I'm off to spend my future time in the iMac forums. It's been fun...
 
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AJClayton said:
I've been excitedly waiting for the new Mac Pro, even though the waiting game has been a bit like Groundhog Day. I had a Mac Pro 1,1 and because of the lack of upgrade options I kept that as my main machine for 7 and a half years before my trashcan 6,1 arrived. The 6,1 wasn't terrible by any means although I did miss the internal storage. I was interested to see if that would come back in the new MP next year.

However, when my 4K monitor died earlier this month and my trashcan was starting to throw the odd kernel panic (perhaps those things were connected, who knows) I started having a rapid rethink. Not wanting to pay for expensive repairs to kit that was going to be replaced in a few months anyway, I decided to look at other options.

I considered a well spec'd up Mac Mini a new 4K or 5K monitor and also looked at the iMac Pro. I've never been remotely interested in an iMac before. The AIO design isn't something I was interested in - surely it would just get too hot? However the base iMac Pro is an excellent spec and includes the new monitor I need built right in so I did something I thought I'd never do in a million years - I bought an iMac (Pro).

I've had the new machine for a week and I have to say it's really rather good.

It's no secret that Apple have been dropping massive hints that the "Pro" market can be served by many different configurations. Gone are the days when a Pro user would always get Apple's tower (or rubbish bin) design of computer. Even the new iPad Pro could do the trick for some markets, unbelievably.

I feel pretty sure that the 2019 Mac Pro will be a beast of a machine and I suspect that Apple will be aiming this at people who carry out really CPU intensive tasks. The rest of us could be served by other machines in their lineup.

I realised that not being able to upgrade the machine, something that was very important to me in 2006 when I bought my Mac Pro 1,1, just doesn't matter so much now and that's taken me down a path that even a year ago seemed extremely unlikely.

I'm still excited to see what's coming next year, but for now I'm a very happy camper. And let's all just celebrate the fact that Apple, who seemed to all have forgotten about desktop pro users a few years ago, will soon have a complete range of options for every professional user (hopefully). Happy days!

Right, I'm off to spend my future time in the iMac forums. It's been fun...
Click to expand...


From the press release of the iMac Pro:
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/12/imac-pro-the-most-powerful-mac-ever-available-today/
In addition to the new iMac Pro, Apple is working on a completely redesigned, next-generation Mac Pro architected for pro customers who need the highest performance, high-throughput system in a modular, upgradeable design, as well as a new high-end pro display.
Click to expand...

What upgradeable design means in Apple's own definition remains to see but it seems like they have heard the criticism of the lack of upgradability. We´ll have to wait and see.

As for the modular term, Apple already has a modular Mac Pro...it´s the 6.1 they even said that in the interview. Monitor and keyboard=modules.
 
ETN3 said:
What upgradeable design means in Apple's own definition remains to see but it seems like they have heard the criticism of the lack of upgradability. We´ll have to wait and see.

As for the modular term, Apple already has a modular Mac Pro...it´s the 6.1 they even said that in the interview. Monitor and keyboard=modules.
Click to expand...

Given the recent significant slide in their stock, and overall cooling in buying trends in general; it will be interesting if Apple decides to capitulate to users and give us something we want to buy, versus what they think we need sprinkled with their usual anti-user seasonings at an ever increasing premium.
 
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Biped said:
Given the recent significant slide in their stock, and overall cooling in buying trends in general; it will be interesting if Apple decides to capitulate to users and give us something we want to buy, versus what they think we need sprinkled with their usual anti-user seasonings at an ever increasing premium.
Click to expand...

I will be interesting indeed and I hope the new Mac Pro doesn't become an uber expensive machine but has a reasonably priced entry machine with at least two PCI slots for graphics. I'm not too optimistic but I think it would be a smart move rather with a bigger potential to reach new customers and sell a lot more machines. The pro marked for a stationary workstation like this is rather limited.

If they had a somewhat reasonable priced (Yeah I know its Apple but still..) low-end machine with non-ECC and say an Intel I9 processor with two-three PCI slots they could attract a bigger chunk of 3D artists, prosumers and even gamers. Then have Xeons and ECC on the medium and high-end machines. Win-win for everybody!
 
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Biped said:
Given the recent significant slide in their stock, and overall cooling in buying trends in general; it will be interesting if Apple decides to capitulate to users and give us something we want to buy, versus what they think we need sprinkled with their usual anti-user seasonings at an ever increasing premium.
Click to expand...

I don't think that makes any sense to assume. Apple's slide in their stock has nothing to do with their Macs (which basically would have remained steadily profitable if they kept them updated) and everything to do with fearmongering about the iPhone (which we go through every year... only last year the iPhone X was a terrible failure based on supply chain and analyst reports until, whoops, it was actually the best-selling phone the entire year.)

The reality is that from a balance sheet standpoint the Mac Pro is basically a rounding error in their charts, even if it was supported well rather than being left on the vine. Arguments for the Mac Pro from a financial standpoint have to draw on the "halo car" analogy because in pure dollar terms there's not much point unless you chopped Apple into separate much smaller companies until the pro hardware business became a significant source of revenue.

From a pure stockholder perspective, I'm sure they'd rather Apple produce fire-and-forget iMac Pros that they think will encourage more frequent buying rather than Mac Pros that people hold onto for a decade :)

---

For my own budgeting I did spend time specs'ing out the costs of an iMac Pro versus a Mac mini. While I'd prefer an upgrade to 8 cores from my W3680 Mac Pro and the ECC RAM, the cost of a well-equipped i7 mini plus an eGPU enclosure and a Vega card would still be $2K less than the iMac, and as I don't really need or have room for the 5K display and don't need as much storage it'd make more financial sense to just upgrade more frequently with the savings than holding onto the iMac for 6+ years. I really hope Apple doesn't abandon the $2.5K–$4K area with the Mac Pro because their lineup could use it.
 
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fuchsdh said:
For my own budgeting I did spend time specs'ing out the costs of an iMac Pro versus a Mac mini. While I'd prefer an upgrade to 8 cores from my W3680 Mac Pro and the ECC RAM, the cost of a well-equipped i7 mini plus an eGPU enclosure and a Vega card would still be $2K less than the iMac, and as I don't really need or have room for the 5K display and don't need as much storage it'd make more financial sense to just upgrade more frequently with the savings than holding onto the iMac for 6+ years. I really hope Apple doesn't abandon the $2.5K–$4K area with the Mac Pro because their lineup could use it.
Click to expand...

Will the mini be enough for your needs, especially if you will be using 4k+ displays? (regarding the integrated GPU)
 
The only thing upgradable for this 2019 mac pro is your spending wallet. That’s upgradable.
“I need to spend 10k to experience high quality gpu glitch.”
 
fuchsdh said:
I don't think that makes any sense to assume. Apple's slide in their stock has nothing to do with their Macs (which basically would have remained steadily profitable if they kept them updated) and everything to do with fearmongering about the iPhone (which we go through every year... only last year the iPhone X was a terrible failure based on supply chain and analyst reports until, whoops, it was actually the best-selling phone the entire year.)

The reality is that from a balance sheet standpoint the Mac Pro is basically a rounding error in their charts, even if it was supported well rather than being left on the vine. Arguments for the Mac Pro from a financial standpoint have to draw on the "halo car" analogy because in pure dollar terms there's not much point unless you chopped Apple into separate much smaller companies until the pro hardware business became a significant source of revenue.

From a pure stockholder perspective, I'm sure they'd rather Apple produce fire-and-forget iMac Pros that they think will encourage more frequent buying rather than Mac Pros that people hold onto for a decade :)

---
Click to expand...

It's not an assumption, rather a rhetorical question. If overall computer sales start slumping, is there a point where Apple changes their tune in regards to their entire macos lineup ( not just macpro ). I'd have to think that what constitutes a 'value add' will change. Consumers may not continue to buy computers that Apple shareholders want to produce ( the fire-and-forget ). The only meaningful value add left might just be macos, and ecosystem; utility over vanity.

There are other valid marketing motivations aside from the 'halo car', illusions of choice as one example. 'Halo cars' are vanity objects, opulent purchases ( even though motivations for development and manufacture might be different and plenty ). I fear this is a bit of a false equivalence, framing the argument improperly before even starting it. There is plenty of utility value for a macpro in one guise or another, however if the price premium outweighs the utility value, it becomes a vanity purchase.

So, does Apple maintain their hubris and produce computers less people find value in, given a changing market context ?
 
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filmak said:
Will the mini be enough for your needs, especially if you will be using 4k+ displays? (regarding the integrated GPU)
Click to expand...

With the eGPU it would be, but of course an integrated one has advantages still. The Mac mini getting desktop-class processors but losing the decent laptop iGPUs is definitely the annoying tradeoff of the 2018 incarnation, but I suspect for most people it's the right one.
 
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LT as himself yet again...
[doublepost=1543519099][/doublepost]I also don't think ARM will be an option in the short run.
I would like to see x86 gone though, for a long time now. Mentioned it before here, and Aiden was kind enough to let the dogs loose on me at the time :)
The thing that used to be a value add in x86 (OK, x64) - legacy - has been, in my opinion, a major slow down.
Apple had the b@lls to switch and it went (insert something here) well.
Too bad Itanium didn't make it, maybe a desktop variant would be wildly used today.
Maybe if Intel would start with a clean slate (well, it never really is clean) and go RISC this time around. Gone are the glorious days of RISC workstations...
Or AMD start with something new.
Although starting a new platform is always a daunting task, I believe it's now easier than ever. And it's about time.
Patching up forever decades old legacy stuff seems odd these days.
Maybe Apple is secretly developing something brand new, not even ARM based. Probably not though, but they would be the ones with the means to do it.
[doublepost=1543519206][/doublepost]On the 11th we'll see how Intel hopes to keep things afloat with CCL-AP and maybe a hint at Artic Sound.
 
ManuelGomes said:
LT as himself yet again...
[doublepost=1543519099][/doublepost]I also don't think ARM will be an option in the short run.
I would like to see x86 gone though, for a long time now. Mentioned it before here, and Aiden was kind enough to let the dogs loose on me at the time :)
The thing that used to be a value add in x86 (OK, x64) - legacy - has been, in my opinion, a major slow down.
Apple had the b@lls to switch and it went (insert something here) well.
Too bad Itanium didn't make it, maybe a desktop variant would be wildly used today.
Maybe if Intel would start with a clean slate (well, it never really is clean) and go RISC this time around. Gone are the glorious days of RISC workstations...
Or AMD start with something new.
Although starting a new platform is always a daunting task, I believe it's now easier than ever. And it's about time.
Patching up forever decades old legacy stuff seems odd these days.
Maybe Apple is secretly developing something brand new, not even ARM based. Probably not though, but they would be the ones with the means to do it.
[doublepost=1543519206][/doublepost]On the 11th we'll see how Intel hopes to keep things afloat with CCL-AP and maybe a hint at Artic Sound.
Click to expand...
Switching from x86 to x86 is... not problematic at all.

Switching from x86, to any other microarchitecture will always be problematic.
 
I'm curious to see what Apple will deliver on the GPU side, since they are progressing quite fast on that, too.
 
ManuelGomes said:
Right, but they've done yet before. Long and bumpy road but aren't we happy campers now?
Click to expand...
Yes, because x86 is good architecture, that allows for both: power efficiency, and high performance.

If anyone is interested: Apple A13 is condemaned Cebu, and has Lightning and Thunder Cores.

Whatever that is ;).
 
They're doing their homework alright. But I believe it's a work in progress, still some more work to be done before it's ready for prime time.
Maybe in a secret lab, some levels bellow ground, they have a mean beast prototype that will blow us all away :) And guess what, it will be on the mMP...
[doublepost=1543521550][/doublepost]Yep, saw that too. Small name style change for now.
 
Kpjoslee said:
Oh, there will be. A12X has convinced me that ARM switch is not that far away.
Click to expand...

A12x does a much better job of showing 7 nm vs 14 nm instead of ARM vs Intel.

I still think it will happen, but people are taking the wrong message from the A12x benchmarks. A 7 nm Intel i7 CPU would likely blow A12x out of the water.

I am fairly certain the next Mac Pro will not be ARM. Eventually the Mac Pro might be ARM, but it's going to be a while. I think we'll been on both ARM and x86 Macs at the same time for a while.
 
goMac said:
I still think it will happen, but people are taking the wrong message from the A12x benchmarks. A 7 nm Intel i7 CPU would likely blow A12x out of the water.
Click to expand...

Considering a 7nm intel anything is probably 2-3 decades away. I would certainly hope it would blow a current A12x out of the water.
 
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