Waiting for modular Mac Pro 2019

[Aldaris]

...the MacBook isn't so "new". Same basic case design from the 2015 MB is being sold as the 2017 model. They all have the same "we painted ourselves design wise into a corner" flaw...

Point being Apple DID release a product without thunderbolt and continued to release a revision in June 2017 without one. Thunderbolt isn’t a guarantee. Especially having the same physical connector, with Apple on the thunderbolt committee I’m sure they would have advanced knowledge on his, how to fit a thunderbolt 3 chip/module on the board of the 12” MacBook.

You originally stated

Those platforms don't have built in Thunderbolt. That's why they can't just ship the same platform as HP or Dell does.

That doesn't mean they won't do something funny. But at a basic level, a rebadged HP or Dell style 6 month ship sort of thing was never ever an option and we should stop pretending it was.

Apple's committed to Thunderbolt. They won't ship a machine without it.

All I did was point out Apple DOES ship a machine without thunderbolt, even a revision less than a year old without it.

 

[goMac]

All I did was point out Apple DOES ship a machine without thunderbolt, even a revision less than a year old without it.

Sure. But they ship it without Thunderbolt because it's not a pro machine, and it's likely to get Thunderbolt in the future.

We can debate this all day, but Apple won't ship a Mac Pro without Thunderbolt. It won't happen. It's why the 2013 happened. There just isn't any way that happens. Anyone here can want it to happen or say they don't need Thunderbolt, but it's just not happening, so any time spent on it is wasted.

There just is no timeline or roadmap where they ship a 2019 Mac Pro without Thunderbolt. It's not a thing that will ever happen.

If they had to pick PCIe vs Thunderbolt they'll pick Thunderbolt. And I say that as someone who wants them to include PCIe. But I know the score.
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I've not closely tracked it, but I think its safe to say that the prices of the SSDs on the 2013 Mac Pro (6,1) haven't really budged since 2013 ... while the overall SSD markets prices have fallen by easily 50% in that time.

This. It's because all the Apple SSD's either can sit at a premium, or are being pulled from old machines. And Apple is soldering the new ones into the new machines. So there is a lack of supply that even companies that make their own can take advantage of.

All the "standard" SSDs I've been buying have been getting cheaper and cheaper. It's even reached the point I actually have a bunch of spares on my desk because they've come down so much and I've been buying so many.

 

[vailr]

Apple won't ship a Mac Pro without Thunderbolt. It won't happen. It's why the 2013 happened. There just isn't any way that happens. Anyone here can want it to happen or say they don't need Thunderbolt, but it's just not happening, so any time spent on it is wasted.

There just is no timeline or roadmap where they ship a 2019 Mac Pro without Thunderbolt. It's not a thing that will ever happen.

If they had to pick PCIe vs Thunderbolt they'll pick Thunderbolt. And I say that as someone who wants them to include PCIe.

Would it be so terrible if they simply stuck in a TB3 dual-port PCIe card?
Along with 2 or 3 additional PCIe slots, for good measure.
If all you're worried about is for them to include "video signal from a computer's TB port to a monitor's TB port", then I don't consider that feature as being all that valuable or necessary.

 

[mattspace]

Errr. How could it not be obvious? If you see it is a MacBook Pro or iMac Pro that is hooked to the eGPU .... what other connection is it going to be???? Your presumption seems to hinge on being close enough to see a eGPU box but not close enough to see what the eGPU box is hooked to? That's a big leap.

Test mule - new hardware in a one-off modified / hacked together older enclosure, the original intel developer kit hacked inside a g5 tower, for example. Or just “this is a machine (in whatever enclosure) you don’t talk about seeing”

There isn't another reason option. "external PCI-e" while technically is a standard it pragmatically isn't standardized in deployment. Most PCI-e break out expansion boxes come with their own card and cable to managed the communication between the two boxes. Apple delivering some hard embedded card (and switch) that external vendors had to match probably won't get many takers ( if any).

You’re arguing Apple wouldn’t do a solution that’s better than a standard everyone else uses, without any actual downside, because it would be proprietary?

 

[beccas]

Would it be so terrible if they simply stuck in a TB3 dual-port PCIe card?
Along with 2 or 3 additional PCIe slots, for good measure.
If all you're worried about is for them to include "video signal from a computer's TB port to a monitor's TB port", then I don't consider that feature as being all that valuable or necessary.

In that case, wouldn't they just include maybe 2 thunderbolt I/O and then dedicate the remaining lanes to PCIe slots?

But I agree, Apple would most likely only use Thunderbolt and completely forgo PCIe slots. It would keep the design of the machine small (which Apple seems to favor).

 

[profdraper]

Seems obvious with the recent and ongoing MacOS eGPU development that this is exactly what will be offered with a 'modular' 2019 mac pro. TB3 & the obvious rest similar to a headless iMac Pro: small form factor with onboard SSD (various BTO sizes), onboard base AMD GPU (BTO options) etc. 2019 updated for GPU models, perhaps .M2, the co-pro etc. In this scenario, I imagine that the primary design point would be in how many *independent* TB3 ports /processing are provided & one would expect more than what was provided for TB2 on the trashcan. Otherwise would simply have better thermals, based on what had been done in the iMac Pro. Personally, it would seem a no-brainer as to what they're going to do, save for the usual 'one more thing' gimmick.

 

[barmann]

You’re arguing Apple wouldn’t do a solution that’s better than a standard everyone else uses, without any actual downside, because it would be proprietary?

Proprietary solutions are a massive downside .
Arguably Macs were at their best when they where the most standard , in the golden years right after the Intel switch .

Apple went from different + it just works to just different in recent years .

 

[-hh]

-hh wrote:
I've not closely tracked it, but I think its safe to say that the prices of the SSDs on the 2013 Mac Pro (6,1) haven't really budged since 2013 ... while the overall SSD markets prices have fallen by easily 50% in that time...

...
SSD price for new devices haven't fallen by 50% from the manufacturers. You may find retailers dumping bloated inventory that is burning a hole in their pocket anyway, but that isn't Apple. Apple has some of the lowest inventories in the industry.

The general computer part retail industry doesn't apply to Apple. The general bargain hunting notion of just "waiting them out" because their inventory costs will start killing them, is in the vast majority of contexts a flawed inference.

The real relevancy is with comparisons of new to new at the starts of the sales lifecycle; not the end. For the last 25+ % of that lifecycle Apple's market factors are different. Folks don't want them to be different but they are.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that Apple doesn't follow the general computer part retail industry's patterns on pricing, but I think my underlying point is being missed.

My point was that the "commodity" SSD prices are indisputably coming down. For example, I can recall paying ~$500 for an 160GB Intel X25 (back in 2009), whereas Intel's retail price for 1TB today is $400, so a 160GB is worth roughly $65 (80% cheaper). This is happening regardless of Apple's choice of retail pricing policies.

And IMO, goMac is tracking on this too:

...
This. It's because all the Apple SSD's either can sit at a premium, or are being pulled from old machines. And Apple is soldering the new ones into the new machines. So there is a lack of supply that even companies that make their own can take advantage of.

All the "standard" SSDs I've been buying have been getting cheaper and cheaper. It's even reached the point I actually have a bunch of spares on my desk because they've come down so much and I've been buying so many.

(indeed ... I just did a "familymember PC repair" on an Octogenarian's PC: rather than just using another 1TB drive, I bought a 256GB SSD instead. Their old PC now boots up much faster, is now more reliable, etc).

Continuing, and point being ...

Apple does benefit from these supply side price reductions over time when they buy their components from their suppliers.

Because Apple don't cut their Retail MSRPs (or increase content) as a product ages, they're not passing along any their savings to their customers. With lower build costs, their profits are actually increase as a product ages.

(FWIW, this is precisely why, as deconstruct60 points out, "best value" occurs at the start of the product's sales lifecyle).

Overall, Apple's SSD prices have become pretty nakedly and shamelessly out of line with the overall market - - and yes, they're currently "getting away with it" because they can (and glued-up computers helps them too .. which makes their environmental 'green' claims a duplicitous sham too). And as (I forget who) pointed out, this pricing decision has also backed them into a corner where they can't just get rid of hard drives because of how they've gotten used to the substantially higher profits that they're pulling from the SSD markups.

In the end it is going to bite them with lost customers - - there's a limit to the value placed on the differentiation of OS X, and this segment will stop paying the premium and go back to buying Windows PCs.