Waning interest?

[MazingerZND]

Oh please. Anybody who declares a product a flop before it’s spent a single day being sold outside of the USA when said product’s entry price point is just shy of $3,500 and the manufacturer of said device is only planning on producing less than a million units in year one globally is clueless and doesn’t understand the difference between a product meant to appeal to the masses and one that isn’t.

Don’t you have better things to do with your time than post on a sub forum dedicated to a product you don’t like, have never owned and don’t intended to buy? What’s the point exactly? So you can proclaim you were right about predicting that a product clearly not meant to appeal to you is a failure? Congratulations for engaging in a self-fulfilling prophecy!!!!! Would you like a round of applause and a cookie?

The Apple Vision Pro isn’t targeted at the mass consumer electronic device market in the way the Zune was. That’s why you can say the Zune was a failure. Microsoft designed it with eyes on competing with other MP3 players like the iPod that were selling millions of units a quarter. The Apple Vision Pro isn’t targeted at the mass consumer electronic device market. Not by a long shot. Not at that price point and not by producing as few units as they are planning on producing globally this year. This device represents Apple playing the long game with a platform they hope will turn into something that will have mass market appeal 5 to 10 years from now assuming that battery, display, camera and processing technology all take big leaps forward and prices for those components comes down, etc. It’s not meant to be that kind of the device now nor in the short or medium term future. So comparisons to the Zune are about as off base as you can get right now. Try harder next time ….

Why do people take a critique of A PRODUCT so personally? You guys need to get offline a bit and remember these are products. Just products. And we can all have opinions about them. You are the ones turning it personal by attacking anyone who dislikes the AVP or has a negative opinion about it in any way.

Take a chill pill.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Why do people take a critique of A PRODUCT so personally? You guys need to get offline a bit and remember these are products. Just products. And we can all have opinions about them. You are the ones turning it personal by attacking anyone who dislikes the AVP or has a negative opinion about it in any way.

Take a chill pill.

Why do people pretend their inflammatory trolling is constructive critique? Such “doctors” might consider their own prescriptions.

 

[MazingerZND]

Why do people pretend their inflammatory trolling is constructive critique? Such “doctors” might consider their own prescriptions.

An opinion doesn't need to be "constructive critique". Neither does it need to be trolling. It can just be an opinion.

These are the types of reactions that have made other people call Apple users "fanboys" for so long. We can enjoy Apple products but also be able to criticize them, can't we?

 

[fatTribble]

I have “Waning Interest” in this thread

 

[Roller]

An opinion doesn't need to be "constructive critique". Neither does it need to be trolling. It can just be an opinion.

These are the types of reactions that have made other people call Apple users "fanboys" for so long. We can enjoy Apple products but also be able to criticize them, can't we?

Criticism is appropriate, and many people in this forum have voiced strong opinions about things Apple should be doing better with the AVP, such as producing and releasing more content and filling gaps in visionOS. But coming here to say the AVP is a flop without supporting evidence or likening the AVP to Zune just comes across as mean-spirited.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

An opinion doesn't need to be "constructive critique". Neither does it need to be trolling. It can just be an opinion.

These are the types of reactions that have made other people call Apple users "fanboys" for so long. We can enjoy Apple products but also be able to criticize them, can't we?

But why criticize so vehemently? Many of us are so tired of it we feel like coming down like a truckload of boulders. Don't like a product or Apple, fine, state your opinion ONCE and move on. It's not constructive what's going on in this discussion. Bully's don't have a place here.

Know where "fanboy" REALLY came from? People who keep beating down Apple and their products without justification. People like us get tired of it so we defend. I'll call Apple out when needed. But more often than not, there are people who do whatever they can to try to tear down Apple, its products, and the people who like them.

 

[tomtad]

I'm convinced that monitors and cables are going to be phased out within 5 years.

You're in for a surprise then

 

[MazingerZND]

Criticism is appropriate, and many people in this forum have voiced strong opinions about things Apple should be doing better with the AVP, such as producing and releasing more content and filling gaps in visionOS. But coming here to say the AVP is a flop without supporting evidence or likening the AVP to Zune just comes across as mean-spirited.

Noted, it wasn't my intention. Thanks for your civil words.

But why criticize so vehemently? Many of us are so tired of it we feel like coming down like a truckload of boulders. Don't like a product or Apple, fine, state your opinion ONCE and move on. It's not constructive what's going on in this discussion. Bully's don't have a place here.

Know where "fanboy" REALLY came from? People who keep beating down Apple and their products without justification. People like us get tired of it so we defend. I'll call Apple out when needed. But more often than not, there are people who do whatever they can to try to tear down Apple, its products, and the people who like them.

I am a long time Apple user who is disappointed with many of the decisions the company has made in the past few years, and find it especially aggravating how they try so market some of their latest products almost as world-changing, when they really aren't. So I guess most of my strong opinions come from a place of disappointment. But I am never attacking the product's users, as I myself am a big fan of many of Apple's 'flops'.
I understand where you come from and will try to engage differently in the future, thanks.

 

[Torty]

Why do people take a critique of A PRODUCT so personally? You guys need to get offline a bit and remember these are products. Just products. And we can all have opinions about them. You are the ones turning it personal by attacking anyone who dislikes the AVP or has a negative opinion about it in any way.

Take a chill pill.

I think the higher the price the higher the emotional attachment to it. So a critique to a product is felt as personal critique.
And maybe it’s the environment. Instead of admiring looks and asking “can I try it?” people ask pitifully “what, you bought that thing for that much money?”

who knows...

 

[Jim Lahey]

Why do people take a critique of A PRODUCT so personally?

Because in recent years society has been successfully programmed to believe that all disagreement is 'hate' and a personal affront. Polarised and unable to accept different views. Now add in the requisite $4,000 price of admission for Apple Vision Pro, and you may as well be disrespecting someone's entire bloodline if you so much as look at it funny.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Yea, because saying something 'sucks,' without insight, is not the 'amazing value add' some think it to be...

 

[DMG35]

It does seem like to me that after the inital launch hype that the AVP has pretty much dropped off the radar. I visted my Apple store yesterday and while it was crowded, there wasn't a single person doing a demo. In the first launch week I went twice to the same store. Once to demo the AVP and the second time to pick mine up. Both times there were tables full of people doing the demos. Seemed strange that there wasn't a single person doing one yesterday.

I asked a store associate at the demo section how interest in the AVP had been and he even said that after the first couple of weeks of launch that the traffic had massively died down. I asked him how many demo's he had done this week and he had worked 4 times and he said a couple of days no one did one and two of the days it was two or three people.

 

[DMG35]

My interest has gone below zero and I think I actively hate using the device now after nearly 2 months. Every time I put it on, the paper cuts turn into mortal wounds and it just feels like I'm an idiot and this is a waste of time. It's getting worse at eye tracking, typing is terrible, and using iPad apps to do anything other than view content is terrible. The lack of content, QOL updates, and overall vision from Apple post-launch has been insulting for a $4K future-facing device that needs all the help it can get. The biggest issue is Apple's interest has waned/hasn't peaked. Even Apple's most favorable reporters are asking what the hold up is because it's genuinely becoming embarrassing for the $3 trillion company to whiff a launch this big. People should be experiencing fomo right now, but Apple currently lacks the wherewithal, the sway, and the developers to deliver the classic Apple fomo-laden launch. At best, this is a $4K home theater replacement if you live alone, appreciate lens glare, and don't want a full-featured sound system, or any way to easily access your high-quality Blu-rays on the best display within a 10-mile radius. Oh wait, perhaps it's even bad for that too. I see the potential and I initially did have some breakthrough experiences when it came out, but the hardware and software are failing the vision, massively, and I feel like an idiot for not seeing it sooner. My excitement for trying something "new" was misplaced. I'm not trying to call vision pro owners idiots, because I am one, I am calling myself an idiot for not predicting my feelings sooner and not predicting this reality. It was foolish to expect much more from Apple in hindsight, and they still over-delivered on so, so many fronts. It is a very conflicting device, especially if you own one and don't love it. I promise I am not trying to intentionally insult anyone but I think it's fair to say this launch has been less than ideal and it's got some pretty severe downstream effects. I truly hope WWDC and the rest of the year have me eating my words and regretting this post.

In the same boat. I honestly don't even use mine now as its more of a chore to put it on, get everything set up, and then deal with the uncomfortable weight on my head. I'm calling this thing for what it is, a nice way to view movies by yourself. Its an isolating device and there is no debating that. I've found that while at home with my wife and kids the last thing I want to do is put the device on. It cuts you off from the world and I get no joy out of wearing it. I'll honestly most likely end up selling it for a pretty big loss as I really don't see the point of the device after the initial wow fact wore off.

 

[Mr_Ed]

It does seem like to me that after the inital launch hype that the AVP has pretty much dropped off the radar. I visted my Apple store yesterday and while it was crowded, there wasn't a single person doing a demo. In the first launch week I went twice to the same store. Once to demo the AVP and the second time to pick mine up. Both times there were tables full of people doing the demos. Seemed strange that there wasn't a single person doing one yesterday.

I asked a store associate at the demo section how interest in the AVP had been and he even said that after the first couple of weeks of launch that the traffic had massively died down. I asked him how many demo's he had done this week and he had worked 4 times and he said a couple of days no one did one and two of the days it was two or three people.

Waiting to see if someone jumps in here just to say they don’t believe you. 😄
I reported the same observation at an Apple Store when I visited a few weeks ago in a different thread here in MR. No one even curious enough to step up to the AVP table for a closer look at the device.

I was with my 12 year old at the time, who does not keep up with Apple at all. He saw the AVP and asked me “is that an Apple VR headset?” I said “yeah. It’s $3500.” and he just said “whaaa….?” and made one of the most hilariously contorted faces I have ever seen him make. Probably the same reaction a lot of adults have 😆

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Noted, it wasn't my intention. Thanks for your civil words.


I am a long time Apple user who is disappointed with many of the decisions the company has made in the past few years, and find it especially aggravating how they try so market some of their latest products almost as world-changing, when they really aren't. So I guess most of my strong opinions come from a place of disappointment. But I am never attacking the product's users, as I myself am a big fan of many of Apple's 'flops'.
I understand where you come from and will try to engage differently in the future, thanks.

Because in recent years society has been successfully programmed to believe that all disagreement is 'hate' and a personal affront. Polarised and unable to accept different views. Now add in the requisite $4,000 price of admission for Apple Vision Pro, and you may as well be disrespecting someone's entire bloodline if you so much as look at it funny.

I agree with this statement in general. The behavior has been seen here in this forum. People don’t know how to agree to disagree and there’s no middle ground. If you back up your position with facts, it’s “fake news”. I thank Trump and the anti-Vaxxer’s for this. Not looking to turn this political, just pointing out that their behaviors became accepted and normalized.

Have an opinion, back up why you have it. Be civil. Check your facts against reliable sources. Not those known to sensationalize or spout crazy conspiracy theories.

The other thing people seemed to have lost is comprehension and an ability to have realistic expectations. Like this thread. People seem to think because Apple is such a large company and they’ve been working on the VP for years, they should have all kinds of a new type of content. I work for a company with what many would call a large IT department. The business frequently express how they don’t understand how we can have so many people, but it takes so long to get anything done. What they frequently fail to understand is we’ve had demands they and other divisions have placed on us we are already working on. IN addition, we have a LOT of assets (hardware and software) that require care and feeding to keep alive and working. It’s not “size” that matters here. It’s available resources and workload, and in recent years, supply chain.

It does seem like to me that after the inital launch hype that the AVP has pretty much dropped off the radar. I visted my Apple store yesterday and while it was crowded, there wasn't a single person doing a demo. In the first launch week I went twice to the same store. Once to demo the AVP and the second time to pick mine up. Both times there were tables full of people doing the demos. Seemed strange that there wasn't a single person doing one yesterday.

I asked a store associate at the demo section how interest in the AVP had been and he even said that after the first couple of weeks of launch that the traffic had massively died down. I asked him how many demo's he had done this week and he had worked 4 times and he said a couple of days no one did one and two of the days it was two or three people.

Makes sense to me. A lot of people fought to get in to demo the VP. It was new and people wanted to see what it’s all about. Some walked away buying one (like me the second time). Those who had interest in it are done for now. Whenever I’ve gone in to an Apple Store, it’s rare to see people playing with the MacBook Pro’s or other Macs but they do sell them. Thinking that would the norm for a while is unrealistic.

In the same boat. I honestly don't even use mine now as its more of a chore to put it on, get everything set up, and then deal with the uncomfortable weight on my head. I'm calling this thing for what it is, a nice way to view movies by yourself. Its an isolating device and there is no debating that. I've found that while at home with my wife and kids the last thing I want to do is put the device on. It cuts you off from the world and I get no joy out of wearing it. I'll honestly most likely end up selling it for a pretty big loss as I really don't see the point of the device after the initial wow fact wore off.

I keep seeing statements like this but disagree. It doesn’t cut you off from the world unless you want it to. With pass through, you are there. You can see what they see. You can engage them with conversation. You can sit there watching the same show on TV while you do other things. I know, as I’ve been doing this as a norm. My family doesn’t seem to be impacted by it. The biggest issue I have is when they come in to a room I’m in, working, and they stand behind an app. Can’t see them until I move it out of the way.

We can agree to disagree here, but I and others I know, use this daily. I pick it up to use more than my MacBook Pro or iPad Pro. I’m using it now to write this post. When I do go to use my other devices, the VP and features it offers are missed. To me, it’s better than a multi monitor setup as I can put apps all around me. Even in different rooms. The VR experience we’ve had available on other devices is SO MUCH better with this. Watching videos is a rarity for me.

Sorry you don’t get joy in using it. Really is a neat device that offers a lot with what’s available today. And I’m excited about the future.

 

[John90976]

I appreciate all of the perspectives. After a week I have performed a 180. I am glad the tech press are saying a lot of what we are saying. I think it has forced Apple to be more proactive, it was excellent to see Apple release a new, I think groundbreaking feature and announce that new immersive content is coming. None of that has really changed my opinion because my wants have always lived adjacent to Apple's marketing. Here's the deal. I had very specific ideas of how I would use Vision Pro that I haven't seen anyone else talk about BUT HMD Enthusiast Brad Lynch (I believe he was linked somewhere in this thread, I have been following him for some time, crazy to see how sold he is on AVP but I get it) has basically lived out a lot of my Vision Pro hopes but not my main wish. I wanted to have a dual workstation-type setup because I don't want a KVM (too many issues with what I want to do) and 5/6K displays are low refresh so my main monitor is a 4K 165/240HZ 32". Apple Vision Pro was fixing to be the most versatile high refresh and largest Mac display yet. The headset was to provide the Apple layer, Mac in the center, iPad and iOS apps surrounding the work, and passthrough providing the PC layer with the existing triple monitor setup, so I could basically fade between both as needed. In reality, the passthrough is so poor that I can't use the monitors for much, let alone enjoy the fact that it's 4K. I certainly wasn't expecting 1:1 with the refresh rate. So now I'm chasing a way to have a dual Mac display+moonlight running my PC at 4K 90fps. On the first launch, it seemingly causes audio latency. This kind of dual high refresh setup is very much worth the money for me considering it's mobile and integrates my Apple and PC ecosystems into a single system. I always loved boot camp, but having them run simultaneously is even better! Just climbing the mountain of getting this mess of connections set properly, with the lowest latency, with unified inputs, is a lot to do and consider. But I think it's worth it. I really wish Apple made a MacBook base without a screen because 1) it would be cool 2) that's the best way to use a keyboard and trackpad in Vision Pro. I tried the Twelve South thing, I tried a plastic holder that simulates the MacBook layout with my huge magic trackpad and the magic keyboard slotting in. All too bulky and finicky. A true MacBook base would be excellent. I may be forced to make one if I can find an Air for cheap, hopefully with a busted display. The moral of the story is, you will love Apple Vision Pro if you think of off-the-wall, needless things to do with it. Considering the losses I would take selling it, I would rather just go all in and see what I can get out of it. if Apple releases a 5/6K 120/240HZ MiniLED or OELD Mac display in June for less than $5K, then yes I will kick AVP to the curb instantly, but I don't see that happening.

 

[DMG35]

Makes sense to me. A lot of people fought to get in to demo the VP. It was new and people wanted to see what it’s all about. Some walked away buying one (like me the second time). Those who had interest in it are done for now. Whenever I’ve gone in to an Apple Store, it’s rare to see people playing with the MacBook Pro’s or other Macs but they do sell them. Thinking that would the norm for a while is unrealistic.

Comparing people playing with MacBooks over doing the demo's is a massive, MASSIVE stretch. People know what Laptops are and how they work. The AVP is a completely new device that people have never used before and not having demo's for it is pretty telling on how sales are going.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Comparing people playing with MacBooks over doing the demo's is a massive, MASSIVE stretch. People know what Laptops are and how they work. The AVP is a completely new device that people have never used before and not having demo's for it is pretty telling on how sales are going.

Right. Not to mention, phones, tablets, and laptops are deliberately set up for people to go hands-on at the store without an associate, unless you happen to be talking to one and asking questions. On my last visit I was browsing and handling iPhones (the reason I was there) for a while and did not ask for assistance until I decided which one I was buying. The AVP requires a structured demo that includes fitting.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

You can enjoy your product every single day. Some people enjoyed listening to music on their Zunes, too.

Hey now! If the Zune is good enough for Star Lord, it’s good enough for me!

 

[Ubuntu]

I remember being very critical of the VP before launch but even now I continue to be surprised by how divisive it is. I have a few theories:
- it's probably the first "Android" experience for many people here, myself included. I've used a Quest for years, it's OK but in comes the AVP like it's the second coming of jesus when it's just another, better, more expensive alternative, resulting in a lot of "my quest already does that" arguments.
- the general arrogance from Apple, e.g. calling it spatial computing but locking it down to the App Store, charging developers $300 for the wired debugging privilege when they need third party devs to contribute and then sitting back & putting their feet up while people question where all the new content is.

I don't think it's a flop, but Apple could have put a lot more effort into the content.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Comparing people playing with MacBooks over doing the demo's is a massive, MASSIVE stretch. People know what Laptops are and how they work. The AVP is a completely new device that people have never used before and not having demo's for it is pretty telling on how sales are going.

You try to get a demo the first couple weeks? It was constant and in many cases, you had to schedule a time the following day. It was like everyone tried to get in there to see what the hype was all about. Name another VR / XR option with that much fanfare. If you go to a Best-Buy or similar store, do you see anyone looking at the competition? Nope. But they sell.

People claimed everyone who bought one was going to return it at the 14 day mark, but no evidence of that happening.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Right. Not to mention, phones, tablets, and laptops are deliberately set up for people to go hands-on at the store without an associate, unless you happen to be talking to one and asking questions. On my last visit I was browsing and handling iPhones (the reason I was there) for a while and did not ask for assistance until I decided which one I was buying. The AVP requires a structured demo that includes fitting.

Sure - but the phones are where most of the people are looking. EVERYONE has to have a phone. Not everyone has to have anything else. And yes, there are VPs out for display. You can't use them, put them on, etc. But people are looking at it asking questions. The time of everyone interested needing a demo to see what it's all about are over. Not seeing people getting a demo is not indicative of sales.

 

[DaPhox]

Criticism is appropriate, and many people in this forum have voiced strong opinions about things Apple should be doing better with the AVP, such as producing and releasing more content and filling gaps in visionOS. But coming here to say the AVP is a flop without supporting evidence or likening the AVP to Zune just comes across as mean-spirited.

What ”evidence” do you need?

 

[DMG35]

You try to get a demo the first couple weeks? It was constant and in many cases, you had to schedule a time the following day. It was like everyone tried to get in there to see what the hype was all about. Name another VR / XR option with that much fanfare. If you go to a Best-Buy or similar store, do you see anyone looking at the competition? Nope. But they sell.

People claimed everyone who bought one was going to return it at the 14 day mark, but no evidence of that happening.

That's the whole point. That occurred during the first couple of weeks and now its over. I have no idea what the return level is like for this device but I've seen multiple threads here and in reddit where people have returned them. I'm not saying most people did but there is certainly a decent amount of people that have returned it.

I just don't see it talked about much now. That's the point of the thread though. A much talked about product and now its kind of this sad device that sits in the corner that not many people outside of early adapters care about.

 

[Polinsky]

A much talked about product and now its kind of this sad device that sits in the corner that not many people outside of early adapters care about.

You bash the owners for bashing the haters and not accepting "criticism". And then you throw in the "sad" nonsense simply to irritate and inflame us. And you lose the very credibility you claim to have and to seek. Go to any front page thread about the VP (or almost any other topic). Over 75% of the posts are childish mean spirited nonsense. This is why I have stopped reading *all* front page discussions. Thankfully we have the ignore file.