MP All Models want your honest thoughts on MP possibilities

[td2243]

Hello,

I’d love to hear people’s opinion on the likelihood of Apple releasing a budget version of the MP. I’m already banking on getting a refreshed iMac when that happens, but I’m so bloody sick of the clutter that comes with the iMac. I have four external HDs, a card reader (because my computer is few feet away and reaching around back is so unnecessarily inconvenient), and many others things requiring cables all over.

I can’t afford, nor do I need, $6K MP, but a mini tower would be perfect. What does the forum community think the possibility is? I’d buy a decked out Mac Mini, but then, more cables everywhere and no Graphics Card to do any decent FCP editing, which I find myself doing almost daily now. Logic Pro is already a daily thing for me.

Apple sometimes get things so right, but seems to ignore the abundance of cables needed to use their computers. It’s quite aggravating.

Obviously, we don’t know what Apple will do, but I figured people who have been in the Apple ecosphere longer than I could chime in. Thoughts?

Daniel

 

[tsialex]

Hello,

I’d love to hear people’s opinion on the likelihood of Apple releasing a budget version of the MP. I’m already banking on getting a refreshed iMac when that happens, but I’m so bloody sick of the clutter that comes with the iMac. I have four external HDs, a card reader (because my computer is few feet away and reaching around back is so unnecessarily inconvenient), and many others things requiring cables all over.

I can’t afford, nor do I need, $6K MP, but a mini tower would be perfect. What does the forum community think the possibility is? I’d buy a decked out Mac Mini, but then, more cables everywhere and no Graphics Card to do any decent FCP editing, which I find myself doing almost daily now. Logic Pro is already a daily thing for me.

Apple sometimes get things so right, but seems to ignore the abundance of cables needed to use their computers. It’s quite aggravating.

Obviously, we don’t know what Apple will do, but I figured people who have been in the Apple ecosphere longer than I could chime in. Thoughts?

Daniel

Zero chances.

Apple will move to ARM processors soon, they won’t develop and release a new model of Mac during this transition time.

We’ll see refreshes of the current models, seems iMac and iMac Pro refreshes will arrive sooner than later, but the chance of a totally new model between Mac mini and Mac Pro is slim to none.

 

[Moonjumper]

Unlikely, but I would like Apple to repurpose the previous Mac Pro design as something in-between the Mac Mini and Mac Pro. Use the cylinder, but with cheaper materials and finishes, plus go down to i7 and i9 processors. The design wasn’t suitable thermally for the latest Xeons, but should be fine with something lesser. Replace the 2nd GPU space with slots for RAM and SSDs.

 

[archimacpro]

Yeh - an updated trashcan w one GPU, i9 or 3960x would be great. I do love the trashcan. Perfect for what I want. Just out of date. I love the finish on it. It looks so professional.

 

[td2243]

funny how people hated the trash can design until the newer MP doubled the entry fee. it’s too bad they didn’t keep it refreshed.

Even just an empty new Mac Pro tower would be cool. Only gradually invest in the things I need. The endless cables hooked up to my 2013 iMac irritate me to no end.

 

[td2243]

I didn’t even realize that the new model comes with 256ssd. that’s just stingy and rude.

 

[MisterAndrew]

It is a shame they doubled the entry fee, and it gets close to $10k for a configuration you would prefer. It's also a shame there really is no other Mac I would want to buy right now. The Mac Pro 5,1 is too old and not supported. The 6,1 is also old, can't be upgraded, and also creates a mess of external stuff. The Mac mini almost comes close, but the GPU is a joke and an eGPU doesn't seem to be an ideal solution. The closest thing I would consider is the iMac Pro, but it also can't be upgraded. Although the hardware in it is fairly decent for the time being. The regular iMac has thermal and noise issues so I wouldn't want one of those.

 

[ssgbryan]

Not going to happen.

AFA Apple is concerned, the only "professionals" are video production houses. Everybody else gets to deal with either an AIO or a potato.

If you need horsepower, and are not chained to OSX, you really need to look to the AMD platform. It has a future; Apple computers, not so much.

 

[minifridge1138]

Greater than zero, but not by much.

 

[Macsonic]

Zero chances that Apple will release a midrange budget Mac Pro. Thru the years, Apple has focused more on their bread and butter, the iPhone, MacBook Pro, and iMac Pro.

 

[mattspace]

There was "Zero" chance Apple would release a slotbox when the 2013 Mac Pro and iMac Pro were the "Pro" desktop Macs, according to one school of thought here. I'm sure there was also "Zero" chance the iPad would get mouse support.

Don't bet on the "wisdom" of the past to predict the future.

 

[pierrox]

This kind of thread appears every six months - sorry to OP, it's not a personal attack, it's just a comment. And I'm with everyone here: 0 chances.
The current Covid/Corona situation change could be a major game changer for the way we buy stuff - 10 million Americans unemployed so far - but if it might only/mainly affect the superfluous stuff (who needs a new $1000+ phone every year?), I don't think it'll change the DNA of Apple as we now know it.
And @tsialex has a major point: if Apple is working on a ARM project, there's no way they're spending a dime on a professional-friendly affordable machine.

 

[startergo]

It is a shame they doubled the entry fee, and it gets close to $10k for a configuration you would prefer. It's also a shame there really is no other Mac I would want to buy right now. The Mac Pro 5,1 is too old and not supported. The 6,1 is also old, can't be upgraded, and also creates a mess of external stuff. The Mac mini almost comes close, but the GPU is a joke and an eGPU doesn't seem to be an ideal solution. The closest thing I would consider is the iMac Pro, but it also can't be upgraded. Although the hardware in it is fairly decent for the time being. The regular iMac has thermal and noise issues so I wouldn't want one of those.

Not only the regular iMac. The new MacBook pro's and air all have thermal constrains. So what good is the advertised turbo speed if you can never reach it. What is worse for the new air, even if you spin the fans at full speed they are not lowering the temperature below certain level.

 

[throAU]

funny how people hated the trash can design until the newer MP doubled the entry fee. it’s too bad they didn’t keep it refreshed.

Even just an empty new Mac Pro tower would be cool. Only gradually invest in the things I need. The endless cables hooked up to my 2013 iMac irritate me to no end.

To be fair, the trash can increased the entry price over the classic mac pro. Which is probably the best desktop apple ever made. They should have just updated the internals of it.

 

[ssgbryan]

To be fair, the trash can increased the entry price over the classic mac pro. Which is probably the best desktop apple ever made. They should have just updated the internals of it.

That would be what the customer wants - Tim knows better.

 

[tsialex]

That would be what the customer wants - Tim knows better.

Weird that now so much people love the late-2013 Mac Pro form factor. Nothing like the hefty price tag of 2019 Mac Pro to change minds…

 

[th0masp]

There was "Zero" chance Apple would release a slotbox when the 2013 Mac Pro and iMac Pro were the "Pro" desktop Macs, according to one school of thought here. I'm sure there was also "Zero" chance the iPad would get mouse support.

Don't bet on the "wisdom" of the past to predict the future.

Agreed. You just never know. Apple often seems to go against the grain anyway.

I mean in which universe would it make sense to move to yet another architecture when you can expect a lot of software won't bother following your niche platform's latest mood swing? Dropping you back to some late 1990's exotic Unix flavour software availability level. Yet this is what's being predicted around here.

 

[tsialex]

Agreed. You just never know. Apple often seems to go against the grain anyway.

I mean in which universe would it make sense to move to yet another architecture when you can expect a lot of software won't bother following your niche platform's latest mood swing? Dropping you back to some late 1990's exotic Unix flavour software availability level. Yet this is what's being predicted around here.

Just follow what Apple has being doing.

• Apple removed 32-bit support with Catalina,
• added Catalyst,
• BridgeOS runs behind macOS and several functions live HEVC encoding, disk encryption and camera/audio management work from the T2 side. Some would say that with the BrideOS Macs, the Intel processor is a co-processor for the T2 architecture.
• Even the EFI firmware is stored inside the T2 and loaded/validated by it.

ARM support with macOS is the ultimate Apple goal.

 

[th0masp]

I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it appears to go against the grain or at the very least makes zero sense (to me, but then I care about cross-platform compatibility and only took an interest in the Mac after it moved to Intel).

If Apple really end up doing it, they may as well shift their strategy on computers once again. Especially in a projected economic downturn where it may end up a bit difficult to justify the current MP even for businesses.

 

[mattspace]

ARM support with macOS is the ultimate Apple goal.

A midrange slotbox, which can take off-the-shelf or MPX GPUs in a PCI / MPX slot, that offers processor performance compatible to the core-series iMac machines (assuming such a thing is actually possible, and not an artefact of the testing protocols on iPads), is not mutually exclusive with a move to ARM (or AMD).

 

[tsialex]

A midrange slotbox, which can take off-the-shelf or MPX GPUs in a PCI / MPX slot, that offers processor performance compatible to the core-series iMac machines (assuming such a thing is actually possible, and not an artefact of the testing protocols on iPads), is not mutually exclusive with a move to ARM (or AMD).

I don't disagree with you about the need of a mythical xMac, even it being niche, my point is that Apple won't do until the ARM migration.

Apple won't do the same they did with G5 Macs again, a new line of Macs at this point in time is even worse than that. It's stupidly bad for business, it's bad for the clients. Apple will never get the ROI for developing a totally new line of Mac that won't be compatible with the new macOS releases two years later.

Btw, from 2019 Mac Pro gestation time, more than three years, a new desktop Mac line will take around that, AX processors will then have more performance than Intel, not just performance per watt, but brute force performance and without temperature constrains that they have today because of the mobile form-factor.

 

[jasonmvp]

the classic mac pro. Which is probably the best desktop apple ever made. They should have just updated the internals of it.

In your opinion. By all technical accounts, today's Mac Pro is the "best desktop Apple ever made." Even if you and others can't or don't want to afford it. It doesn't change the fact that it is vastly more capable than the Mac Pros came before it.
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I don't disagree with you about the need of a mythical xMac, even it being niche, my point is that Apple won't do until the ARM migration.

The ARM migration, if it's a reality, is going to bring a LOT of pain and suffering to MacOS. Not necessarily to the end users, but to the app developers. Every time we've gone through one of these transitions, it hasn't gone smoothly. The most recent one is one that a lot may not necessarily remember: the transition to Intel. It was the right thing to do at the time, but good grief was it a pain in the ass.

Let's hope the know-it-alls that are pining for this ARM are ... wrong. It's not going to be a good time to be a Mac developer or user during said transition, otherwise.

 

[tsialex]

In your opinion. By all technical accounts, today's Mac Pro is the "best desktop Apple ever made." Even if you and others can't or don't want to afford it. It doesn't change the fact that it is vastly more capable than the Mac Pros came before it.
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The ARM migration, if it's a reality, is going to bring a LOT of pain and suffering to MacOS. Not necessarily to the end users, but to the app developers. Every time we've gone through one of these transitions, it hasn't gone smoothly. The most recent one is one that a lot may not necessarily remember: the transition to Intel. It was the right thing to do at the time, but good grief was it a pain in the ass.

Let's hope the know-it-alls that are pining for this ARM are ... wrong. It's not going to be a good time to be a Mac developer or user during said transition, otherwise.

While not I'm not minimising all the transition problems that will sure happen, it's nothing new. It will be the fourth main migration that Apple will do with the processors used by Apple computers:

1. 1983: MOS 6502 → Motorola 68000
2. 1996: Motorola 68K → PowerPC 601
3. 2006: PPC → Intel Core

Apple have being doing this step by step over the years, the 64-bit only support with Catalina is a main step, no need to support legacy software at all with the new iteration of Rosetta down the road. Catalyst already is greatly facilitating the migration of iOS based software to the Mac.

 

[jasonmvp]

While not I'm not minimising all the transition problems that will sure happen, it's nothing new. It will be the fourth main migration that Apple will do with the processors used by Apple computers:

I know that exactly. And every one of them was a mine field of ... "fun". With a capital "F".

This isn't going to be the panacea folks are hoping for.

 

[JayKay514]

Btw, from 2019 Mac Pro gestation time, more than three years, a new desktop Mac line will take around that, AX processors will then have more performance than Intel, not just performance per watt, but brute force performance and without temperature constrains that they have today because of the mobile form-factor.

I'm sure Apple is designing their own chips, but as an example of what's possible, there's a company called Ampere that has created an ARM-based workstation/server chip; 32 cores at about 3.3GHz turbo with 8-channel memory, which is comparable to the AMD EPYC. Both ARM and EPYC are seeing wins in the cloud server space because of cores per CPU and for ARM, lower power usage in the data center. Neither are designed for crazy overclocking, but more for stable all-core performance in a server, running VMs and the like.

One company, Avantek, sells the Ampere in a workstation, but I'm guessing it's really more of a dev box for software that you'd deploy to Ampere-based cloud servers vs. something you could run commodity software on.

Without thermal / power / die size limits, you could probably get multicore A-series chips running at 4GHz easily.

For me, aside from price, the thing that gets me about the Mac Pro is that they were limited by Intel to PCIe 3.0, so they created a kludge to get higher bandwidth for PCIe cards, resulting in those double-connector MPX modules. It's such a niche market that I can't see companies thronging to adapt their products to that standard.

If there is to be an xMac slotbox based on ARM, I'd hope that Apple integrate PCIe 4.0 (with a firmware update, hopefully upgradeable to 5.0). It's literally twice as fast as 3.0, so you can move lots more data around the bus; and ideally, the implementation will be at least equal to EPYC's 128 PCIe lanes, with enough to provide 6-7 x16 slots, and provide connectivity for TB / USB / SATA etc without sacrificing speeds or lanes.