Water cooled vs. Air cooled

[maflynn]

Not as lucky on the silicon lottery this time roun

I forget which Yter said it, but they found that the CPUs that Microcenter sell, tend to have less flexibility in over-clocking. I think it might have been Jayztwocents. He likes to OC a lot, and he observed that nearly every CPU from microcenter he's bought wasn't able to push as hard as others.

It could be a coincidence but yeah, maybe there's a reason why Microcenter's CPUs are cheaper then most others ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No regrets, I love my setup and its cool, and fast for my needs.

 

[diamond.g]

Shelving the idea of a custom loop for now. Decided to play around with the CPU clock settings, rather than running on stock which seems to over volt (up to v1.481) a lot causing my high temps and noise.

A Brief play with the Precision Boost Overdrive settings, had it somewhat at a nice spot. Limiting the CPU package power to 115w, during Cinebench I could all core boost 4.48-4.51Ghz (pass 10min run), but during single core at 4.81Ghz it crashed. Tried relaxing the curve optimiser but got a lower all core boost and high temps and voltages. If I took the time to iron it out I'm sure I could get it good, need to do some research on it.

For now settled on a manual clock @4.5GHz all core @v1.2. Pretty happy with the temps and noise now. Will take the single core hit. When gaming my temps were ~80-88C, now ~68-71C and the fan doesn't have to go as hard (using the same fan curve I originally had, didn't change after either).

Spent the money else where ahah..

For CO did you raise the setting on your best two cores? I think I am running -30 on all but my best two cores they run -10 or -5 I forget what I set it to, lol.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

For CO did you raise the setting on your best two cores?

I just did them all together, tried -30 first then -20. If I have another go I'll try individual cores, OCD me wants them all even.

 

[diamond.g]

I just did them all together, tried -30 first then -20. If I have another go I'll try individual cores, OCD me wants them all even.

Yeah the Core Optimizer is supposed to reduce (or increase) core voltage. The best performing cores on the chip tend to need more power than the others, so to get a stable single core OC you would have to give them more power than the others.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

Yeah the Core Optimizer is supposed to reduce (or increase) core voltage.

Ah, I see. When I was doing the single core bench, I saw 4 or so alternating between it's max boost, didn't pay close enough attention if it was the same cores consistently. Will do more research on it, just YouTube'd a quick and dirty guide to get the gist of PBO.

 

[mmomega]

Haven't had a SFF build since my 2004 build in a Shuttle XPC SN95G5 rocking a Athlon 64 3500+ and X800 XT PE. That thing had a 92mm Delta fan screaming away, was like a jet..

OML the X800XT brings back some memories.
The first pre-built computer I was able to buy. Alienware before Dell bought them, and I spec'd the computer for Half Life 2 launch.
Even Raid0 36GB WD Raptor drives, pre Velociraptor. With some aftermarket sleeved parallel ATA cables to make them rounded instead of flat. At the time that thing was ridiculous.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

OML the X800XT brings back some memories.
The first pre-built computer I was able to buy. Alienware before Dell bought them, and I spec'd the computer for Half Life 2 launch.
Even Raid0 36GB WD Raptor drives, pre Velociraptor. With some aftermarket sleeved parallel ATA cables to make them rounded instead of flat. At the time that thing was ridiculous.

Great times, I was playing mostly CS:S with this build.

I originally had a Maxtor HDD which ran hot to physically touch, then later changed to a WD Sata drive, was good getting rid of the ribbon, though still had one for the optical drive. I remember wanting a Raptor drive, prob would have overheated.

 

[rezenclowd3]

PC Part Picker Build List+more pics

Sometimes this thing draws 800W. I had an AIO, and ended up going custom due to excess noise. Even with 2x360 Rads I am now adding an external 420 (140mmx3) radiator with quick disconnects. Temps in this still get warm, mainly due to ambient, but I want it quieter when working, and currently on a mildly warm day here for sunny SoCal, water temps stay at 40ºC with fans at 100%, at night will go down to 35-37ºC.

I typically let it mine ETH 24x7 except when doing video work which so far has paid for the card and waterblock, which is part of the reason for the heat and noise.

For me, quiet is VERY important. I do love running multiple VMs so family members THINK they have their own computers, plus some dockers for WebODM and retroarch to the living room TV. Really amazing as to the power one can buy now for *relatively cheap.

 

[mmomega]

Here is the current build, been putting this together for a year now. Almost finished. GPU waterblocks are the last pieces of the puzzle, hoping a couple weeks on those.

011Dynamic XL, Custom dual D5 pump distrobution plate, 3 - 360mm rads and a 120mm, 16 - Lian Li Uni-AL fans, EVGA 1300 PSU, Ryzen 5950X w/ der8aur CPU bracket, ASUS Dark Hero, Optimus CPU block, Optimus barb fittings and clamps, EKWB Zero Maintenance tubes, GSkill Royal 3600C14 RAM, 2 - EVGA Kingpin 3090, 2TB 980Pro, 2TB Auros gen4 nvme, remote control power on/reset keyfob .

Idle temps are high 20's to low 30's on the CPU and mid to low 20's on both GPU's.
Full beans mining w/ both GPU's @ 100% over 24hrs and fans around 1250rpm temps are low to mid 40's, currently 45C.

The PSU 'could' be under-powered, the GPU's have 3 different bios. 1 - 480w, 2 - 520w, 3 - 1000w each.

The GPU waterblocks I am waiting on are from Optimus and have front and rear active cooling and power delivery cooling so they are going to be some THICK waterblocks.

 

[rezenclowd3]

How well does the EVGA Kingpin 3090s cool the VRAM? I would assume not well enough if you are already replacing the Kingpin blocks. The EKWB hybrid block actually works very well considering but my active backplate today to take care of the same problem.

 

[icanhazmac]

Work in progress as I ruined several tubes in my first attempts and had to order more.

Lian Li Dynamic
AMD 5800x
Gigabyte Aorus Elite
Gigabyte Aorus Waterforce 6900xt (yes, I sent the 3080TI back)
Corsair h305i cooling kit
Corsair RM850x
Crucial 4x8 3600

The RGB is an ***** rats nest!

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Air is better! Sry, wrong forum.

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[rezenclowd3]

Well wanted more cooling, so I finally installed my EKWB 3090 FE active backplate, and another external 420 Radiator with lossless quick disconnects:

 

[kamikazeeMC]

I though about an external rad setup for my ITX case, this makes me want to do it.

 

[Lihp8270]

I love water cooling purely for the style.

I’ve done numerous water builds, but I’m currently on air.

There are very few scenarios where water cooling out performs air in pure thermal performance. At the end of the day, the limitation of cooling is how much heat your environment can soak.

With water you’re still restricted by the ambient air as you’re still exchanging heat with a radiator to the air.

However the main Benefits for water is that it can be more suitable to compact builds, by being able to move the radiator out of the way etc. Water builds also have a greater thermal mass and thus are able to deal with short high usage loads better before having to ramp up fans.

 

[rezenclowd3]

There are very few scenarios where water cooling out performs air in pure thermal performance. At the end of the day, the limitation of cooling is how much heat your environment can soak.

Interesting, and not the observations many have made whether it be air cooled vehicle or computer.....

I have some jobs that take 1-2 weeks to render/compile. On air this would be painfull even with my "larger" case.

 

[Lihp8270]

Interesting, and not the observations many have made whether it be air cooled vehicle or computer.....

I have some jobs that take 1-2 weeks to render/compile. On air this would be painfull even with my "larger" case.

Even with water you’re still cooling with air.

You heat the water, and then transfer to the air via a radiator. You have the same physical limitation as an air cooler.

As I said with water you get more thermal mass, running for 1-2 weeks I’m sure you’ll have fully saturated that mass so you’re relying on the radiators.

Then it’s a case of the design and efficiency of the heat exchanger.

I think the big issue is that there are a lot of Cheap and Nasty air coolers around which get compared to custom loops with triple rads etc

 

[Thysanoptera]

Even with water you’re still cooling with air.

Even with air, you’re still cooling with water. All those heat pipes. Although, that adds a phase change, which has massive benefit, but no forced circulation kills it somewhat.

I use air cooler in home server, but my gaming rigs have water. Radiator provides massive heat exchange area with air while maintaining high temperature gradient. dT and dA rule. My main rig pulls 800W+ in spikes from the wall and I can’t hear it.