$$$$... WD Enterprise HD - 2TB RE4 vs 2TB RE4-GP (x4) for RAID 6

[nanofrog]

true i never thought about it on such a large scale (silly me). save 1-2w per drive, if you have 1000 of then that is a massive savings.

Then take into consideration very large corporations (mulit-nationals), have more than one data center. You want to spread it out for several reasons, such as redundancy (at least n+1, if not better for critical data like billing/account information).

ahh i see. i thought that would have been up to the HDD manufacturer to make them work properly. clearly not - they just make the thing then leave the others to make it work.

It is up to them as well. When there's a problem, both ends work on it. As information develops, they both play "it's the other guy's fault" crap, as neither wants to take the blame. But often on new drives, it's the drive firmware that's faulty, rather than the card, as they're released after they get it to work on a main board controller consistently (well, maybe just sort of). But it's not tested out extensively on RAID controllers before they ship. Not even enterprise drives from what I've seen (though there may be some, just not complete).

Situations like the GP drives though, would very likely be on both, as the card would need it's power management and possibly even it's recovery schemes to be updated. The link you gave has some support on this, particularly with the Areca's update to v.1.47 (which is what I'm running). I just haven't experienced any issues, as I don't use any GP drives at all. I'm running a single system, not a bunch of data centers, and I could care less about an extra 32W or so (assuming the difference is even 4W per drive @ 8x). Everything was chosen for performance and reliability.

tbh the airflow is non-existent. the rubber (which i assume is to stop vibration) is glued onto some metal that has some really good airholes (0.5cm in diameter) every 1cm or so. but the rubber glued to it doesnt do anything of course. to fix this i am simply not going to stick the rubber back on, the results will be good i hope.

Leave some of the rubber, at least on the corners/edges of the drive for vibration.

BTW, are there any holes/vents in the top for convection airflow?

a singluar capacitor is so hard to find around here let alone the higher end ones. ebay wont work in this case as i want quality.

Try places like Farnell (UK based), Digikey (US), Mouser Electronics (US), and Allied Electronics (actually Farnell in the US). But most, if not all of them, ship internationally IIRC. These places will sell in either quantity or onesey - twoseys for prototyping. Other sources I'm aware of are parts brokers or direct to the manufacturer, so large quanities only.

There may be some other sources in AU, but I'm not sure of where else to tell you. I don't have anything in that high a voltage, let alone have any that would suffice for what you're doing.

Ahh. so yuo are gvinig me a vrey cpmiolaicted tset to do?

No, it's that repairs to a poor design are a PITA. It tends to be too small a space to fit the proper parts, and if you can, you have to be concerned about things such as cooling. Issues of zero airflow, even convection, causes the use of way higher grade parts than should have been necessary. It can get rather expensive, and definitely a headache when it means more than an equivalent part replacement.

with that large number of drives, maybe the firmware versions are different, im assuming thats a bad thing as they may handle data differently.

Sometimes. There are occasions where a specific firmware revision is needed to make a specific drive operate, but usually, the latest will continue to work with devices previous versions were already working with properly. It's like the firmware just keeps adding cards it can work with. Usually in difficult cases, it falls on the card maker to adjust their own firmware, which is why the above typically holds true.

But it's a PITA waiting around for both the card maker and drive maker to sort it all out, as it usually means you've someone really pissed off at you because the system isn't up and running or won't be on time, even if there was decent planning involved before starting.

reading the article again, he states in the intro that he is using firmware "04.05G04". no idea if thats the latest at the time (21st september 2009).

I don't either, and you have to deal with WD directly to find out. They don't make the firmware publicly available. There's a particular site, and it requires a proper address to access it, which last I needed, was sent to me in an email after completing a phone conversation. It's been awhile, so it may even have to be done strictly on the web now. I've not had firmware issues with WD's enterprise line in some time, but that's been helped by me not trying to use drives not on the lists.

haha funny story. i accidentally touched the live wires. it was charged at 130v. boy, did i feel alive!

DOH! I hope this was before I told you to use a DMM to check....

its a fairly high powered capacitor, 400v IIRC. i daresay it needs a certain type of resistor. i will research.

i searched! youtube said i should use a light diode.

You can. Even an incandecant light bulb will work. They take varying degrees of time, as they each have their own currents.

Just follow Ohm's law. Don't try to put more power through it than it's rated, or the discharge device will blow out, and the remainder of charge still be there waiting for to to screw up. Hint hint...

 

[UltraNEO*]

hmm.. nano, think you've missed my reply... hehe

 

[nanofrog]

hmm.. nano, think you've missed my reply... hehe

Can you clarify what I've missed? Not seeing it, but I am looking rather quickly.

EDIT: Nevermind. I didn't see the one on the CalDigit found a new home.

The ARC-1680ix24 is crazy fast. So are the others (same parts), just not as many ports to make it nuz.

You should be really happy with it. But a little trick (ahem... <looks around for Areca personel>), you can mod a smaller one with the needed parts and flash the firmware that matches the port count. Hmmm... did I say that?
Of course the warranty is then invalid, but I've not had one die either.

 

[DoFoT9]

had a nice big reply for you nano... then the uni's internet died and i got a time out... now my reply has gone bugger!! sorry if its blunt.

It is up to them as well. When there's a problem, both ends work on it. As information develops, they both play "it's the other guy's fault" crap, as neither wants to take the blame. But often on new drives, it's the drive firmware that's faulty, rather than the card, as they're released after they get it to work on a main board controller consistently (well, maybe just sort of). But it's not tested out extensively on RAID controllers before they ship. Not even enterprise drives from what I've seen (though there may be some, just not complete).

game of cat & dog then. nobody wants to take the blame because they want to keep their "image". why dont they try that when they make a mistake with customer service instead of denying it!?!?

Situations like the GP drives though, would very likely be on both, as the card would need it's power management and possibly even it's recovery schemes to be updated. The link you gave has some support on this, particularly with the Areca's update to v.1.47 (which is what I'm running). I just haven't experienced any issues, as I don't use any GP drives at all. I'm running a single system, not a bunch of data centers, and I could care less about an extra 32W or so (assuming the difference is even 4W per drive @ 8x). Everything was chosen for performance and reliability.

well yea, 32W extra is only a few bucks a month - compared to them saving hundreds of thousands (even millions) per year.

Leave some of the rubber, at least on the corners/edges of the drive for vibration.

im not that silly hahaha! im taking out all the rubber, buying some rubber feet to put them there, and leaving the metal there for airflow. this picture might show the airflow that is possible, those little holes cover the whole bottom.

BTW, are there any holes/vents in the top for convection airflow?

the picture above shows the only holes (which are normally covered by rubber haha).

Try places like Farnell (UK based), Digikey (US), Mouser Electronics (US), and Allied Electronics (actually Farnell in the US). But most, if not all of them, ship internationally IIRC. These places will sell in either quantity or onesey - twoseys for prototyping. Other sources I'm aware of are parts brokers or direct to the manufacturer, so large quanities only.

There may be some other sources in AU, but I'm not sure of where else to tell you. I don't have anything in that high a voltage, let alone have any that would suffice for what you're doing.

never heard of those stores lol. i might search for an australian store for each and see if they are around.

No, it's that repairs to a poor design are a PITA. It tends to be too small a space to fit the proper parts, and if you can, you have to be concerned about things such as cooling. Issues of zero airflow, even convection, causes the use of way higher grade parts than should have been necessary. It can get rather expensive, and definitely a headache when it means more than an equivalent part replacement.

i think that if i try my method with the no rubber at the bottom then all the cooling issues will be resolved. no need to buy the "best" capacitors as the heat will be lower. there is not much room for the caps, the PSU is very tiny.

Sometimes. There are occasions where a specific firmware revision is needed to make a specific drive operate, but usually, the latest will continue to work with devices previous versions were already working with properly. It's like the firmware just keeps adding cards it can work with. Usually in difficult cases, it falls on the card maker to adjust their own firmware, which is why the above typically holds true.

in this case i guess this update would be a pretty significant firmware update, the speed "changes" would need lots of algorithms and whatnot to work efficiently.

I don't either, and you have to deal with WD directly to find out. They don't make the firmware publicly available. There's a particular site, and it requires a proper address to access it, which last I needed, was sent to me in an email after completing a phone conversation. It's been awhile, so it may even have to be done strictly on the web now. I've not had firmware issues with WD's enterprise line in some time, but that's been helped by me not trying to use drives not on the lists.

WHY!? why do they make it so STUPID! that just makes no sense at all to me... geeeez

DOH! I hope this was before I told you to use a DMM to check....

nah this was a few days before lol. i was attempting to pull back the plastic to see the bottom of the board and ZAAPP. funny as.

You can. Even an incandecant light bulb will work. They take varying degrees of time, as they each have their own currents.

and because the light bulb runs on 240v and the cap is charged at 130v there should be no issues with it?

Just follow Ohm's law. Don't try to put more power through it than it's rated, or the discharge device will blow out, and the remainder of charge still be there waiting for to to screw up. Hint hint...

i was going to get a light diode to do it, but the incandecant one sounds alright. i might just do that

p.s. shutup about the zaap jokes it was an honest mistake

 

[UltraNEO*]

Hey ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ YOU ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ .... Quit hi-jacking my thread!

Can you clarify what I've missed? Not seeing it, but I am looking rather quickly.

EDIT: Nevermind. I didn't see the one on the CalDigit found a new home.

The ARC-1680ix24 is crazy fast. So are the others (same parts), just not as many ports to make it nuz.

You should be really happy with it. But a little trick (ahem... <looks around for Areca personel>), you can mod a smaller one with the needed parts and flash the firmware that matches the port count. Hmmm... did I say that?
Of course the warranty is then invalid, but I've not had one die either.

Yeah... I got a few notes for the CalDigit, better than discarding the thing into a box for storage; never to be seen again... Though, it's never been troublesome for me, regardless of what you warn me. Guess i'm lucky!

As to the Areca. What solution do you suggest in getting all those internal ports, external? Is there a MiniSAS thing to take the place of the back plate? As you know already, this MacPro is stuffed to the brim with drives... and soon to be hardware too.

 

[DoFoT9]

sorry geeeeez

i say just get the RE4's (not the GP ones) and go on with it.

you do video editing right? the requirements for this would be pretty high and i dont think the extra $1 or two would effect your pockets THAT much in a month.

p.s. how did you do them upwards arrows?

 

[nanofrog]

had a nice big reply for you nano... then the uni's internet died and i got a time out... now my reply has gone bugger!! sorry if its blunt.

No biggie.

game of cat & dog then. nobody wants to take the blame because they want to keep their "image". why dont they try that when they make a mistake with customer service instead of denying it!?!?

They're too afraid of the blow back. Unfortunately, I really think they're firm believers in the idea the public is totally stupid (and assume they don't do a search for similar issues). It can work if they get a solution out quickly, but in cases of drive firmware, the update isn't automatic. The user has to persue it, so they're going to find out anyway at some point.

With professionals, they know they don't have a choice in many cases but wait for a fix (they're already stuck with the drives). But can't get over their pride, so they lie and go for the "blame the other guy" approach here as well. The only thing I can figure, is either they don't actually know themselves there's an issue (no emails to keep them updated, not taken many such cases themselves,...), or they're embarassed about appearing as an @ss to the IT/pro on the other end of the line/email.

well yea, 32W extra is only a few bucks a month - compared to them saving hundreds of thousands (even millions) per year.

A major difference between consumers, or even pros on workstations vs. enterprise customers. Single users don't have the power concerns that they do. Period. But if you owned 10k systems in a data center/s, you'd worry about it too.

im not that silly hahaha! im taking out all the rubber, buying some rubber feet to put them there, and leaving the metal there for airflow. this picture might show the airflow that is possible, those little holes cover the whole bottom.

I'd just figure out where the drive sits (edges of the case), and start cutting the middle out, and maybe some slots where it meets the edge of the enclosure. Nothing to buy, and it might actually work better. Hard to say, as I don't have one to disassemble, and poke around the guts.

never heard of those stores lol. i might search for an australian store for each and see if they are around.

You access them online. Though IIRC, you can walk in, it's a single location, and I don't live near any of them. I have to order everything.

If you do go this route, watch the minimum order amount. It's not that high, but it can get you if you really only need a single part or so. Just a note of caution, so check it out.

i think that if i try my method with the no rubber at the bottom then all the cooling issues will be resolved. no need to buy the "best" capacitors as the heat will be lower. there is not much room for the caps, the PSU is very tiny.

It will depend on what the capacitance/temp curve looks like. 105C parts will retain a greater charge at 60C than an 80C part will, and that's where the physical space constraints come in. You may end up with a larger value 80C part, and it won't fit.

Check out some capacitor data sheets for various lines, and pay attention to the curves and physical dimensions. You should see what I'm talking about (assuming it has that information, so look for parts by say Nichicon, Panasonic/Matsushita (owns Panasonic), United Chemi Con for examples).

in this case i guess this update would be a pretty significant firmware update, the speed "changes" would need lots of algorithms and whatnot to work efficiently.

Maybe. In the case of the GP drives, I've a feeling it's going to come down to both the card and the drive needing updates.

Firmware can be tough, as "the devil's in the details". Sometimes it's not that bad, other times, you want to break something.

WHY!? why do they make it so STUPID! that just makes no sense at all to me... geeeez

They don't want users self diagnosing thier issues, assume it's drive firmware, and flash it with the wrong firmware. Best case in their minds, is nothing goes wrong (doesn't cause DOA). But they're presuming it does (and the statistics would likely support this), and it increases thier RMA rate. Sucks, but there it is.

It makes sense on the consumer side IMO, but oddly enough, you can find firmware for external drives far easier than an internal one, no matter if it's a consumer or enterprise model.

and because the light bulb runs on 240v and the cap is charged at 130v there should be no issues with it?

i was going to get a light diode to do it, but the incandecant one sounds alright. i might just do that

None (I don't imagine the current will exceed the W rating of the bulb, but you can figure it out mathmatically by testing the bulb's resistance, and using Power = Voltage * Current, sub in Ohm's law for R, to get P = (Voltage^2)/R ).

Just make sure you test with the DMM for zero voltage rather than assume it's fully discharged, as when it gets low, the bulb can stop glowing, but still be heating up.

p.s. shutup about the zaap jokes it was an honest mistake

Too late. I'll never let you live it down.

 

[nanofrog]

Hey ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ YOU ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ .... Quit hi-jacking my thread!

But it's sooo fun!

Yeah... I got a few notes for the CalDigit, better than discarding the thing into a box for storage; never to be seen again... Though, it's never been troublesome for me, regardless of what you warn me. Guess i'm lucky!

No, you waited long enough, they got their sh*t straightened out. But in general, it seems to apply to their other product lines as well. Combine all of it, I just don't trust CalDigit with a 10' pole, and am extremely hesitant to seriously recommend their products. I'm just that way, when companies mishandle something that badly.

As to the Areca. What solution do you suggest in getting all those internal ports, external? Is there a MiniSAS thing to take the place of the back plate? As you know already, this MacPro is stuffed to the brim with drives... and soon to be hardware too.

Remove a PCI cover, and run an internal to external cable. As you're using SAS, you can go up to 8.0m. Example (but only 2.0m, which is the more common max length you'll find). Beyond that, you'll need to special order it (where the vendor you buy from then sends the order via email to China, and they direct ship to you), but they can be had.

But if you ever want to put a SATA drive on it, you can't use anything that long. 2.0m max, for active signals, and 1.0m for passive ones (most common). Rather short, but it will work. You just need room enough next to the MP to set the external enclosure.

 

[dr. shdw]

I didn't read the whole thread but the RE4 is faster and is able to handle more load cycles. Get the RE4.

 

[UltraNEO*]

sorry geeeeez

i say just get the RE4's (not the GP ones) and go on with it.

you do video editing right? the requirements for this would be pretty high and i dont think the extra $1 or two would effect your pockets THAT much in a month.

p.s. how did you do them upwards arrows?

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　↘↘　　　　　　　　　　　　　↙↙

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　☞　　　just type them in.... ヽ(^^　ゞ

 

[informatimago]

Don't use CD/DVD/Blueray for critical backups.

please don't use disk (even if it's redundant) for critical backups...

Actually, I used to have a lot of backups and archives on CD. When I _had_ to read them back six months later, two thirds of them couldn't be read, and it took three days to swap the CDs in the drive!

This is silly to make backups on this kind of media, that can rot with a little humidity and heat, or a little scratch on their _unprotected_ surface, that requires so much human effort to backup and restore, and that is so slow to write and to read.

Do ALL your backups, overmost your critical backups on the fastest, cheapest, surest media, the hard disk.

Of course, external hard disks, a lot of them.

But it is much easier to hook a 2TB HD to your red, to back it up unattended in a couple of hours, and to swap the backup disk for the next day.

2TB are 40 bluerays at 50 GB, and cost about 440¤.
A 2TB HD highest quality like the RE4 WD2003FYYS 2 TB costs about 300¤.

The MTBF of the hard disks is much better than the readback rate of the optical media over time.

The ease of use is much greater (until we have robots to manipulate the optical disks).

So it is much better to have half a dozen hard disks on which to make your backups than thousands of bluerays.

Clearly, you haven't thought it thru, or you are just spreading disinformation.

--
informatimago

 

[DoFoT9]

bluray discs are at 500GB now info. they seem to be pretty stable life time wise. how do they compare?

nice thread revivial btw.

 

[UltraNEO*]

Actually, I used to have a lot of backup and archive on CD. When I _had_ to read them back six months later, two third of them couldn't be read, and it took three days to swap the CD in the drive!

This is silly to make backup on this kind of media, that can rot with a little humidity and heat, or a little scratch on their _unprotected_ surface, that requires so much human effort to backup and restore, and that is so slow to write and to read.

Do ALL your backup, overmost your critical backups on the fastest, cheapest, surest media, the hard disk.

Of course, external hard disks, a lot of them.

But it is much easier to hook one 2TB HD to your red, to back it up unattended in a couple of hours, and to swap the backup disk for the next day.

2TB are 40 bluerays at 50 GB, and cost about 440¤.
A 2TB HD highest quality like the RE4 WD2003FYYS 2 TB costs about 300¤.

The MTBF of the hard disks is much better than the readback rate of the optical media with time.

The ease of use is much greater (until we have robots to manipulate the optical disks).

So it is much better to have half a dozen hard disks on which to make you backups than thousands of bluerays.

Clearly, you haven't thought it thru, or you are just spreading disinformation.

--
informatimago

doesn't it largely depend on where you buy BluRay and capacity? The media is getting really cheap now and you needn't worry about something being physically damaged - such as the controller board, connectors.

 

[hunter3740]

tape backup vs disk backup

please don't use disk (even if it's redundant) for critical backups...

Got me a Habey DS-1530A, bunch of WD RE4 2TB (considered the RE4-GP, but as nice as "green" is, performance has to give, right?), and a 3ware 9690SA-8E-KIT and setup as RAID 6 (with a server that has two network cards bonded together, registered RAM, multi-core, redundant power, attached to UPS, on a backup generator outlet)--a rockin' system (and only cost like $5k but I've got all the good stuff); but, that's no solution for backup.

Have two Quantum Superloader 3 (LTO3), but ones flaking out and the other may follow; so, thinking why stick with tape backup? I have a few old 2TB and 4TB RAID 5 arrays and a server; I could use that as the backup. Have users store their data on their computers and/or have them store it on the server, and backup their computer and the server to disk and even use Windows for shadow copy (you know, for previous version); heck, buy some 2TB USB drives for $85.27 (ST320005EXA101-RK) and $14.05 USB card (F5U220-NC) and make an octopus of a setup on an old server or desktop and software raid that stuff together, or not (i.e. whatever it takes to match your performance production space) and run a nightly rsync or robocopy--it will *undoubtedly be cheaper* than a robotic tape library and tapes (and sure, that first backup would be a killer drag). I will still use my tape library (while it lasts, as those things are moving parts hell) to make offsite backups like monthly, but I could easily put the old server (with the octopus external stuff) in a second location for that kind of redundancy.

I guess my point is this: why does the type of backup matter (i.e. worry about your main production space (e.g. decide to get RE4 and not RE4-GP) and just have a backup)?

 

[nanofrog]

Got me a Habey DS-1530A, bunch of WD RE4 2TB (considered the RE4-GP, but as nice as "green" is, performance has to give, right?), and a 3ware 9690SA-8E-KIT and setup as RAID 6 (with a server that has two network cards bonded together, registered RAM, multi-core, redundant power, attached to UPS, on a backup generator outlet)--a rockin' system (and only cost like $5k but I've got all the good stuff); but, that's no solution for backup.

Have two Quantum Superloader 3 (LTO3), but ones flaking out and the other may follow; so, thinking why stick with tape backup? I have a few old 2TB and 4TB RAID 5 arrays and a server; I could use that as the backup. Have users store their data on their computers and/or have them store it on the server, and backup their computer and the server to disk and even use Windows for shadow copy (you know, for previous version); heck, buy some 2TB USB drives for $85.27 (ST320005EXA101-RK) and $14.05 USB card (F5U220-NC) and make an octopus of a setup on an old server or desktop and software raid that stuff together, or not (i.e. whatever it takes to match your performance production space) and run a nightly rsync or robocopy--it will *undoubtedly be cheaper* than a robotic tape library and tapes (and sure, that first backup would be a killer drag). I will still use my tape library (while it lasts, as those things are moving parts hell) to make offsite backups like monthly, but I could easily put the old server (with the octopus external stuff) in a second location for that kind of redundancy.

I guess my point is this: why does the type of backup matter (i.e. worry about your main production space (e.g. decide to get RE4 and not RE4-GP) and just have a backup)?

Use whatever works, and is low cost. But I do agree with the idea that if you don't have to use tape, skip it due to the complexity.

If you're after cheap DAS backup storage, you could go with an eSATA card and Port Multiplier enclosure + consumer grade green drives for a cheap solution, and it's better than USB (faster and less clutter). 4 bay kit example (just add drives; BTW, these also come in black).

 

[hunter3740]

cheap backup

Use whatever works, and is low cost. But I do agree with the idea that if you don't have to use tape, skip it due to the complexity.

If you're after cheap DAS backup storage, you could go with an eSATA card and Port Multiplier enclosure + consumer grade green drives for a cheap solution, and it's better than USB (faster and less clutter). 4 bay kit example (just add drives; BTW, these also come in black).

EXACTLY! $712 can get you <12TB (e.g. your enclosure, 4 x 3TB drives, and an eSATA card; your backup can be simple and cheap and doesn't have to perform, just be there in case.

 

[nanofrog]

EXACTLY! $712 can get you <12TB (e.g. your enclosure, 4 x 3TB drives, and an eSATA card; your backup can be simple and cheap and doesn't have to perform, just be there in case.

If you go for the Sans Digital enclosures (4 bay example is, and they make an 8 bay as well; TR8MP), you don't even need to get an eSATA card. Just get the enclosure (it's a kit = enclosure + card that works under OS X via drivers), and add disks. Simple.

4 bay unit + 4x 3TB Green Hitachi's (or WD) works out to $690 (free shipping on all of it).

As per HDD's, I've had better results from WD's disks lately than Hitachi (since Hitachi moved their facilities to China, their QC seems to have dropped significantly than that of the older Malaysian made disks - I'm talking about the consumer grade models).

But it may not matter much longer anyway, as WD is in the process of buying Hitachi (not sure what this will mean for reliability, as it will depend on what vendor tech/IP and facilities are used).

 

[hunter3740]

cheap backup

you don't even need to get an eSATA card. Just get the enclosure (it's a kit = enclosure + card

Oops (and apologies nanofrog); good quality control on my oversight (and drops your price like $20)! That 8 bay and 8 x 3TB is totally right for backup (<24TB for *like* $1.5k).

The 3TB WD would be better if newegg.com dropped the SATA card that comes with them for a $5 discount (and note: they only offer 3 year warranty on those drives, unlike WD black or the totally awesome RE4, which have 5 year warranty; i.e. all manufacturers make a cheapy and a better quality--I try not to confuse the two: my backup is price driven, where my production is performance driven; and, everything should be simple!).

Happy Friday!

 

[nanofrog]

The 3TB WD would be better if newegg.com dropped the SATA card that comes with them for a $5 discount (and note: they only offer 3 year warranty on those drives, unlike WD black or the totally awesome RE4, which have 5 year warranty; i.e. all manufacturers make a cheapy and a better quality--I try not to confuse the two: my backup is price driven, where my production is performance driven; and, everything should be simple!).

As per price, you could always look around other sites, as newegg isn't always the cheapest.

Unfortunately, most consumer grade disks have shifted to 3 year warranties (can't recall a consumer grade Green drive that's greater than 3 years). The Caviar Black series is an exception these days at 5 years.

 

[hunter3740]

warranty doesn't say it all

As per price, you could always look around other sites, as newegg isn't always the cheapest.

Unfortunately, most consumer grade disks have shifted to 3 year warranties (can't recall a consumer grade Green drive that's greater than 3 years). The Caviar Black series is an exception these days at 5 years.

I'm lucky to have GovConnection and CDW-G, but you're right about newegg.com: they can be beat (e.g. by buy.com or amazon.com or whatever), but they are good for reviews and pictures and consistent deal makers.


About warranties: Seagate Barracuda XT also has a 5 year warranty (and I would think it's a consumer product, or is the "XT" mean enterprise?!); anyway, Seagate in general is a notorious 5 year warranty company. To all who might read and are thinking about saving dollars on their production space: get above the consumer grade, don't just pay attention to warranty, look for dual processors (on the drive), dual actuators, the motor shaft being fixed to both sides of the drive (and super fast rpm), logic stuff for adjusting whatever on the fly and working well in a RAID array, and a 24x7 rating, like the WD RE4 (just not sure if you want to go into the actual enterprise class, like with a Seagate Cheetah--but who's crazy enough to drop hundreds of dollars on a smaller capacity drive (that doesn't even work inside any desktop or even "workstation")?). If it's for backup, be disloyal to your favorite website, don't worry about specs (other than capacity), and save whatever dollars you can.

 

[nanofrog]

About warranties: Seagate Barracuda XT also has a 5 year warranty (and I would think it's a consumer product, or is the "XT" mean enterprise?!); anyway, Seagate in general is a notorious 5 year warranty company.

That disk is 5 years. But since the 7200.11 series, they've been having trouble (seen issues with both the enterprise series and the 7200.12 series aren't that great either; when I take a look at newegg's customer review section, the DOA/failure rate for the 7200.12 series is high; ~31% or so, and I took into account the 5 egg ratings that were the result of newegg's customer service in terms of returns).

BTW, the XT series is 7200 RPM, not slower (i.e. 5400 - 5900 as is the case with Green drives). So it's more comparable to the Caviar Black series from WD.

To all who might read and are thinking about saving dollars on their production space: get above the consumer grade, don't just pay attention to warranty, look for dual processors (on the drive), dual actuators, the motor shaft being fixed to both sides of the drive (and super fast rpm), logic stuff for adjusting whatever on the fly and working well in a RAID array, and a 24x7 rating, like the WD RE4 (just not sure if you want to go into the actual enterprise class, like with a Seagate Cheetah--but who's crazy enough to drop hundreds of dollars on a smaller capacity drive (that doesn't even work inside any desktop or even "workstation")?).

If you're running on a hardware RAID controller, enterprise grade disks are a necessity for stability reasons alone (differing recovery timing data, as they're no longer under the control of the ICH/consumer grade controller + OS). As per things like fly height adjustments, that's usually limited to the enterprise disks (additional sensors + different firmware).

If it's for backup, be disloyal to your favorite website, don't worry about specs (other than capacity), and save whatever dollars you can.

Well, for the most part I agree. But not all disks are the same, even if in the same category (i.e. consumer grade, or consumer green). So it's always a good idea to do some research before buying disks.