Resolved Weird situation

[kenoh]

So.

Strange one. I went into out local shopping centre and there is a branch of Boots who do photo processing.

To my dismay, they have got one of my portrait photos up on display! Printed on canvas.

It is a photo I let my neice print and it is of her son and daughter.

Should I go in and tell them to take it down? As they dont have license to display it.

I cant decide. She has let them put it up as she is flattered it is her kids. I get that but I am narked that my work is helping Boots sell canvases now.

Whats the thoughts here? Be chuffed or annoyed?

 

[DeltaMac]

Boots didn't make the portrait, they just reproduced it.

Are you a professional - making money through your photos?

Seems like you could ask at the store, explain that the original shot is yours.
Maybe the store could post a label with the portrait, identifying you as the photog?
Your niece may be able to help out with that, too, if she was the one that allowed Boots to put up the portrait.
Free advertising is good, eh?

 

[kenoh]

Boots didn't make the portrait, they just reproduced it.

Are you a professional - making money through your photos?

Seems like you could ask at the store, explain that the original shot is yours.
Maybe the store could post a label with the portrait, identifying you as the photog?
Your niece may be able to help out with that, too, if she was the one that allowed Boots to put up the portrait.
Free advertising is good, eh?

I am just a hobbyist. I am erring on the side of flattered here to be honest but just wondering what people thought

 

[Apple fanboy]

So.

Strange one. I went into out local shopping centre and there is a branch of Boots who do photo processing.

To my dismay, they have got one of my portrait photos up on display! Printed on canvas.

It is a photo I let my neice print and it is of her son and daughter.

Should I go in and tell them to take it down? As they dont have license to display it.

I cant decide. She has let them put it up as she is flattered it is her kids. I get that but I am narked that my work is helping Boots sell canvases now.

Whats the thoughts here? Be chuffed or annoyed?

When they asked your niece, didn't she mention it to you? I'd be more annoyed at her for not thinking to check with you.
See if they will give you credit on the photo, otherwise ask them to take it down.
Or take a photo of it in the window and stick as used by Boots on your business card!

 

[tomnavratil]

That's definitely a tough one especially with an involvement of your niece too.

As @DeltaMac suggested above, I would go in and explain the situation and try to work out some sort of a deal for sure. Label is the least you should want, I would try to get some sort of licensing fees although it might be tricky.

I can understand your niece's thought process though, she doesn't have the knowledge of the industry and how copyright law works plus, because it's a nice image, she's flattered, absolutely understandable. I would try to go through her and simply explain that you really appreciate the extra exposure and the that both her and Boots like the image however now it's helping Boots only with absolutely no benefit to yourself.

I would try to deal some sort of licensing fees as a starting point with having a label displayed as a second choice. If they simply refuse both, I would ask them to take it down as they've never had a licence to display it in the first place.

Btw I would like to know if they've even asked if your niece is the author of the images or they simply didn't bother at all? Doesn't sound very professional IMHO, people get all sorts of prints there, even from protogs, so the staff always assumes that the person who brings them in is the author and they can simply display them?

 

[kenoh]

That's definitely a tough one especially with an involvement of your niece too.

As @DeltaMac suggested above, I would go in and explain the situation and try to work out some sort of a deal for sure. Label is the least you should want, I would try to get some sort of licensing fees although it might be tricky.

I can understand your niece's thought process though, she doesn't have the knowledge of the industry and how copyright law works plus, because it's a nice image, she's flattered, absolutely understandable. I would try to go through her and simply explain that you really appreciate the extra exposure and the that both her and Boots like the image however now it's helping Boots only with absolutely no benefit to yourself.

I would try to deal some sort of licensing fees as a starting point with having a label displayed as a second choice. If they simply refuse both, I would ask them to take it down as they've never had a licence to display it in the first place.

Btw I would like to know if they've even asked if your niece is the author of the images or they simply didn't bother at all? Doesn't sound very professional IMHO, people get all sorts of prints there, even from protogs, so the staff always assumes that the person who brings them in is the author and they can simply display them?

No they didnt ask her at all. She is mortified I even asked her. She thought I gave her the picture to print so it was hers to do what she wanted with it. She didnt even understand what single use license means and that while I let her have the image, it wasnt so she could send it to all her mates either.

She thought I was being a bit rotten even having the conversation.

Nevermind, lessons learned. From now on, I print and give them out so no one gets access.

Boots should have checked the exif and would have seen my copyright info.

 

[adversus]

I'm a hobbyist, who occasionally will do impromptu things for friends in a pinch (I shot a wedding once when they're hired photographer bailed and they were planning on handing out disposable cameras to the guests...) and in every instance, the printing place wanted a signed release to do anything with the image.

Any place that doesn't seems shady.

 

[kenoh]

I'm a hobbyist, who occasionally will do impromptu things for friends in a pinch (I shot a wedding once when they're hired photographer bailed and they were planning on handing out disposable cameras to the guests...) and in every instance, the printing place wanted a signed release to do anything with the image.

Any place that doesn't seems shady.

Weird thing is, Boots are the UK equivalent of someone like CVS or Walgreens. They arent some little private place. They should know better.

 

[tomnavratil]

No they didnt ask her at all. She is mortified I even asked her. She thought I gave her the picture to print so it was hers to do what she wanted with it. She didnt even understand what single use license means and that while I let her have the image, it wasnt so she could send it to all her mates either.

She thought I was being a bit rotten even having the conversation.

Nevermind, lessons learned. From now on, I print and give them out so no one gets access.

Boots should have checked the exif and would have seen my copyright info.

I see, that's unfortunately what many people think when you give them 300dpi versions for print.

That's a shame but I've learnt this the hard way as well, no I clearly specify what they can use the image for and there's my info in the EXIF as well, of course. People are surprised that when process images for them, you still own them and they only have a licence for them.

Quite simply a shocking mistake by Boots to be honest, they should really know better.

I'm a hobbyist, who occasionally will do impromptu things for friends in a pinch (I shot a wedding once when they're hired photographer bailed and they were planning on handing out disposable cameras to the guests...) and in every instance, the printing place wanted a signed release to do anything with the image.

Any place that doesn't seems shady.

Exactly, that's how it should be handled, and as @kenoh mentions, Boots is a large UK retailer who does prints for a long time now, this is a terrible standard they've shown.

Weird thing is, Boots are the UK equivalent of someone like CVS or Walgreens. They arent some little private place. They should know better.

Absolutely, still can't understand it.

 

[anotherscotsman]

Kenoh, depends on what motivates you here:

1. desire for revenue
2. desire for acknowledgement
3. desire for privacy with respect to your family members

You are the copyright holder regardless of whether or not your niece gave them permission.

Regardless of motivation, I'd go and explain the situation and what follows depends on what you want to achieve: a take-down for (3), acknowledgement notice for (2), license fee for (1).

It doesn't seem that you are overly concerned with the privacy aspect and if it were me I'd be chuffed and go for the acknowledgement route.

 

[Doylem]

Take a photograph of your pic being used for advertising/publicity purposes. Establish whether the pic is being used in one branch of Boots or many. Think of a sum that would recompense you for a) unauthorised use of your pic, and b) the embarrassment caused by an entirely personal pic being appropriated without request or acknowledgement. Double that sum. Double it again. Send them a bill and demand immediate payment.

 

[kenoh]

Take a photograph of your pic being used for advertising/publicity purposes. Establish whether the pic is being used in one branch of Boots or many. Think of a sum that would recompense you for a) unauthorised use of your pic, and b) the embarrassment caused by an entirely personal pic being appropriated without request or acknowledgement. Double that sum. Double it again. Send them a bill and demand immediate payment.

Thanks guys, I think it is Option 4 actually - I dont think it is good enough to be shown in public and so I am embarrassed that is it there.

I dont want money for it. It is a picture of family members and it is a crappy low res print out. The response I got from her was that "It's not your profession so didnt think it mattered".... !

 

[Apple fanboy]

I had some nice A3 prints done at work. I went home to find out Mrs AFB had given them to her her dresser who comes round. I couldn't believe she hadn't even exchanged them for a hair cut!

 

[kenoh]

I had some nice A3 prints done at work. I went home to find out Mrs AFB had given them to her her dresser who comes round. I couldn't believe she hadn't even exchanged them for a hair cut!

It is amazing how little anyone appreciates the effort to take a photo. Even my bloody wife who has to put up with my moods when I cant get the shot I want.

I have been practising for years! Spent thousands on equipment. Spent countless hours studying books to progress from pathetic to barely capable.

And yet all they see is point, click, print....

I feel a pompous arse for getting annoyed but I work in software so to me it is the same thing as when some sheister copies our products and shares keys.

 

[DeltaMac]

The Boots branch might like the print, because of the subject matter. The quality of the image may concern you, but may still be a great picture.
If you want a label with your name, as the photog, then ask for it.

Any photo processor should know about ownership and use of customer prints. They should be able to show you a release to use the photo (even if the releasor did not actually own the photo)

The "perfect" photo does not come from the equipment that you use - it's the composition, contrast, color, emotional response, (whatever, etc.) that makes a good photo.
Maybe your "crappy low res print out" still manages to get an emotional response from the viewer. (As it apparently does for you ) and is a better picture than you "see" from your perfectionist side

 

[kenoh]

The Boots branch might like the print, because of the subject matter. The quality of the image may concern you, but may still be a great picture.
If you want a label with your name, as the photog, then ask for it.

Any photo processor should know about ownership and use of customer prints. They should be able to show you a release to use the photo (even if the releasor did not actually own the photo)

The "perfect" photo does not come from the equipment that you use - it's the composition, contrast, color, emotional response, (whatever, etc.) that makes a good photo.
Maybe your "crappy low res print out" still manages to get an emotional response from the viewer. (As it apparently does for you ) and is a better picture than you "see" from your perfectionist side

but mate, seriously, I put int the effort but suck at this photog lark... ;-)

 

[DeltaMac]

Your pictures may be better than you think, assuming that you try to follow the usual ideals for taking a good picture.
Boots might tell you that you have a good eye, regardless of your personal opinion.
"beauty is in the eye of the beholder", or something like that...

 

[phrehdd]

Just an opinion - ask them if they have a written release from the photographer. When they say "no," then tell them it is yours and to take it down immediately or provide you compensation for use as promotion. Since photography is not your business nor do you particularly like the image itself, then you have lost nothing having them take it down.

The alternative is simply move on and forget about it. If it were one of my images (back when I did make a living doing graphics and photography), good or bad I would insist on compensation based on what I would normally charge for images made for promotion (usually news papers and magazines).

My guess is that they get away with this stuff because they assume an amateur made the image and would be flattered and excited to see it 'published.'

 

[kenoh]

Time to move on and smile at it... someone thought an image was good enough to want to pirate it.... guess I am not quite as crap at this as I thought...

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No one ruin my moment....
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Ah! there I am done now...

 

[Doylem]

It doesn't really matter whether the pic is 'good' or bad'; the issue is about copyright and attribution and using a pic - commercially - without payment or permission. Boots is a huge company; they can pay for the images they use (and generally do). Don't let them get away with it...

 

[Laird Knox]

It is amazing how little anyone appreciates the effort to take a photo. Even my bloody wife who has to put up with my moods when I cant get the shot I want.

I have been practising for years! Spent thousands on equipment. Spent countless hours studying books to progress from pathetic to barely capable.

And yet all they see is point, click, print....

I feel a pompous arse for getting annoyed but I work in software so to me it is the same thing as when some sheister copies our products and shares keys.

A couple of months ago I got some advice from a visitor to the gallery. He said that I could sell a lot more prints if I used cheaper paper and charged $40 for them instead of $280.

 

[Hughmac]

No you're not rubbish, Ken. I've seen you grow and mature greatly as a photographer, as I hope I have improved (a little) myself

The point is, you need acknowledgement from Boots, especially as they have rather cheekily posted one of your creations in at least one public shop without your permission.
Whether monetary compensation is required or not is up to you.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Hughmac]

A couple of months ago I got some advice from a visitor to the gallery. He said that I could sell a lot more prints if I used cheaper paper and charged $40 for them instead of $280.

Is he still alive?

Cheers

Hugh

 

[kenoh]

A couple of months ago I got some advice from a visitor to the gallery. He said that I could sell a lot more prints if I used cheaper paper and charged $40 for them instead of $280.

Priceless! Mate, $40 gets you a cheesy print in a crap frame from Home Depot... surprised he got out alive.

No you're not rubbish, Ken. I've seen you grow and mature greatly as a photographer, as I hope I have improved (a little) myself

The point is, you need acknowledgement from Boots, especially as they have rather cheekily posted one of your creations in at least one public shop without your permission.
Whether monetary compensation is required or not is up to you.

Cheers

Hugh

Thanks mate. Appreciate the positive comments. You have progressed massively.

I told them it was my picture and that they didnt have my permission for it. They said they have a deal with Google Images to use whatever images they want.

It didnt come from Google amd that deal with Google Images doesnt exist.

Anyway it is down now.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Priceless! Mate, $40 gets you a cheesy print in a crap frame from Home Depot... surprised he got out alive.



Thanks mate. Appreciate the positive comments. You have progressed massively.

I told them it was my picture and that they didnt have my permission for it. They said they have a deal with Google Images to use whatever images they want.

It didnt come from Google amd that deal with Google Images doesnt exist.

Anyway it is down now.

What a stupid reply. Was this from the manager? Maybe you should post the pic so we can see if it's in any other boots around the UK. I'd still ask them for a pay out. Maybe some free printing as way of compensation.