Went to Microsoft Store and Apple Store right after--thoughts.

[Frisco]

I went with my friend to the Mall today--wanted to test out the Surface Pro 3 in a Windows friendly environment (Best Buy & Staples displays them like trash).

Anyway about me: Current Windows 7 user--previous Windows XP, Mac Jaguar, Panther and Tiger.

My friend--Mac only user--is a graphic artist and only uses Macs at work and at home.

First off the Windows Store was at a prime location in this busy mall--MS must have paid a fortune for this space.

Me and my friend played with the Surface Pro 3. I liked it, but the track pad was a killer for me. The physical keys are okay, but the cloth keyboard will stain easily and I can easily see it getting ripped where it attaches. The one in Staples was already ripped and many online users complaining about that.

Windows 8 interface (I only have about 3 days of prior Win 8 experience) is a nightmare! 2 Versions of OneNote Open--2 versions of IE open--confusing. I know about Start 8 and classic Shell and they are a must on Win 8.

But my friend and I were impressed with all of the computers (including SP3) touch screens. I never thought I would like a touch screen on a PC, but we both did. They had the all-in-one iMac copycats which were great with the touch screens. And the ultrabooks touch screen made them seem like tablets because of their light weight.

My friend liked the digital pen on the SP3 and sketched a nice drawing in OneNote.

I am currently in the market for an ultrabook and my friend and I agreed that the XPS 13" with Infinity was the best one. I didn't buy yet.

And my friend was impressed with the Windows Phone--Blu something? Compared to his 5S.

Next we hit the Apple Store to play with the new trackpads. After just coming from the Windows Store we were both trying to touch the screen. My friend asked one of the Apple employees how come Apple doesn't make it touch? He responded Apple is probably waiting for the technology to be perfected.

My friend mentioned that there were so many more people at the genius bar than there were checking out Apple products. And what's the deal with not including written model and specs of what computer or device you are looking at. Instead there are iPads which next to them that display this info, but customers were playing around with them and changing them. So to find out what computer I was on I had to go to the Apple Menu>About this Mac. So confusing in a store! If it weren't for my prior Mac experience I would have not known to do that.

We were both confused on whether it was retina or not. Oh and new track pads are nice. Hard to believe the button isn't physically moving.

Bottom line is that I think I am going to buy the Dell XPS ultrabook and install Start 8 and prey Windows 10 gets released soon. And Apple needs to make OS X touch--I am sure they are secretly working on it.

Take care--just wanted to share!

 

[maflynn]

I have Start8 on my Surface Pro 3, and that improves the win8 experience dramatically.

Tbh, I'm fine with the MS store experience, the people seem fairly knowledgeable, no better or worse then those who work at the apple store. and the products are fine.

Personally on the SP3, I really like mine, yeah the trackpad is not as good, but then I'm going to be using a small travel mouse when I have the type cover on it. The keyboard on the type cover is fine, its just the track pad for me.

 

[PDFierro]

Touch screen on OS X is the last thing many of us want. I actually consider it an advantage that Macs don't have it.

 

[maflynn]

Touch screen on OS X is the last thing many of us want. I actually consider it an advantage that Macs don't have it.

I thought the same thing, but the surface pro, changed my mind on it. My wife has an HP AIO computer that is also touch screen. Its really nice to use the touch screen. With the AIO, you don't constantly use the touchscreen, but it comes in handy.

With the SP3 and the pen, its a powerful tool, that I think apple is missing out on.

 

[Frisco]

Well I just found out that the Dell XPS has severe fan problems and the Asus Zenbook has hinge problems. Dell Fan issues

This is why I didn't buy yesterday--I don't trust Dell. But now back to square one.

 

[ozaz]

Windows 8 interface (I only have about 3 days of prior Win 8 experience) is a nightmare! 2 Versions of OneNote Open--2 versions of IE open--confusing. I know about Start 8 and classic Shell and they are a must on Win 8.

It is weird that there are two versions of certain apps (esp IE) but in practice it's not a big deal. On my PC I have IE set to always launch the desktop IE (so I never see the modern IE), and I only have the desktop version of OneNote installed.

I think the start screen is something that people can grow to like if given time. I spent my first one or two months trying various start menu apps (like start8) to get it back to something like Windows 7, but eventually I started to like the full start screen. I like the flexible way you can organise things and find the calendar live tile very useful for an at-a-glance look at my upcoming agenda. I might even continue to use full start screen mode in Windows 10.

I am currently in the market for an ultrabook and my friend and I agreed that the XPS 13" with Infinity was the best one. I didn't buy yet.

Very nice looking machine and pretty decently priced.
But are you ok with the weird webcam placement?

 

[Frisco]

It is weird that there are two versions of certain apps (esp IE) but in practice it's not a big deal. On my PC I have IE set to always launch the desktop IE (so I never see the modern IE), and I only have the desktop version of OneNote installed.

I think the start screen is something that people can grow to like if given time. I spent my first one or two months trying various start menu apps (like start8) to get it back to something like Windows 7, but eventually I started to like the full start screen. I like the flexible way you can organise things and find the calendar live tile very useful for an at-a-glance look at my upcoming agenda. I might even continue to use full start screen mode in Windows 10.



Very nice looking machine and pretty decently priced.
But are you ok with the weird webcam placement?

Well I really don't use webcams. I tested it and it was awkward--it was showing under my chin. But I am not buying because of the fan issues I mentioned above.

 

[zhenya]

Most people have a poor first reaction to Windows 8, which is probably why Microsoft is changing so much in Windows 10. It's too bad, because once you give it a chance, it's the best OS Microsoft has made - Windows 7 is very dated once you get used to 8, for example. And a lot of what they appear to be changing in Win 10 is actually going to be missed. That duality that you complained about actually makes sense when you use it daily on a convertible tablet. When you use it on a regular desktop or laptop, it's trivial to ignore. The 'Start Screen' can really just be treated like a large Start Menu, but with the benefit of live updating tiles. Since Win 7 I have never really used the mouse to open programs anyhow. Win-key and start typing - enter opens the program far faster than a mouse ever can.

Honestly, the Genius Bar is one of the smartest things Apple ever did in their stores. What better than to turn the people who need assistance with their computer into foot traffic in the store? That must generate a huge amount of additional sales.

Owning a Surface Pro 3, I still don't really get the point of touchscreens on laptops. It's fine, but there is almost always a hit in weight and battery life that doesn't justify the usefulness to me. On the other hand, my little kids are growing up in a world where they expect every screen to interact to touch, so I'm sure it will be standard in the future.

 

[ozaz]

Well I really don't use webcams. I tested it and it was awkward--it was showing under my chin. But I am not buying because of the fan issues I mentioned above.

If you're irritated by fan noise (I am too), I can recommend ThinkPads. Keeping these quiet seems to be a priority for Lenovo (makes sense I guess given their main usage is in business settings).

I had been disappointed by HP, Toshiba, Dell, and Sony Windows laptops before trying and settling on ThinkPads. One of the main reasons is they have been much quieter in use than my prior laptops.

 

[Frisco]

If you're irritated by fan noise (I am too), I can recommend ThinkPads. Keeping these quiet seems to be a priority for Lenovo (makes sense I guess given their main usage is in business settings).

I had been disappointed by HP, Toshiba, Dell, and Sony Windows laptops before trying and settling on ThinkPads. One of the main reasons is they have been much quieter in use than my prior laptops.

Yeah but what about Lenovo Superfish Malware? Link

 

[zhenya]

Yeah but what about Lenovo Superfish Malware? Link

Never affected the Thinkpad lineup.

Thinkpads are the most reliably high-quality Windows laptop you can get.

 

[roadbloc]

Touch screen on OS X is the last thing many of us want. I actually consider it an advantage that Macs don't have it.

I disagree. I used to think that way until I used Windows 8.1 on a touchscreen. It's real refreshing to be able to reach out and manipulate the GUI with touch, and even though there some minor GUI issues (such as the strange splitting up of settings between two apps), Windows 10 looks set to fix them. Using a touchscreen on a laptop and/or desktop is great and Windows 8.x does it well.

I have always stated that Windows 8 is the best OS Microsoft has made to date and I stand by that. I find it much more stable and faster than OS X at the moment.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Don't not buy an XPS because of the fan. I have one, and my fan is perfect. Its hands down the best laptop I've ever used. If you get one with a bad fan, return it for a different model. I run windows 10 on mine, and it fixes a lot of the "double" programs open issue.

As far as the stores go, I agree. The apple store is always so much busier, but I like the ms store better - its more laid back, and ironically, because they're not used to people buying anything ever, there's less "how can I help you" and more "how are you today?"

 

[spinedoc77]

I have Start8 on my Surface Pro 3, and that improves the win8 experience dramatically.

Tbh, I'm fine with the MS store experience, the people seem fairly knowledgeable, no better or worse then those who work at the apple store. and the products are fine.

Personally on the SP3, I really like mine, yeah the trackpad is not as good, but then I'm going to be using a small travel mouse when I have the type cover on it. The keyboard on the type cover is fine, its just the track pad for me.

Classic shell is nice also, you can easily make it exactly like Win7 start, or customize it to your liking. Seeing the complete and utter atrocity that the Win10 start button is going to be I'll be sticking with classic shell for the foreseeable future.

MS store experience is great, they are always happy and willing to help. I'm always impressed with Apple also though, even when they are completely mobbed it seems you can always find someone to help you within minutes. I agree about the SP3 with the ripping keyboard (mine is startint to) and I can't say I'm thrilled with the trackpad, it's so difficult to get a tap (not click) to register. Still, the SP3 is so far ahead of any other tablet/laptop out there, nothing even comes close.

 

[Michael Goff]

I thought the same thing, but the surface pro, changed my mind on it. My wife has an HP AIO computer that is also touch screen. Its really nice to use the touch screen. With the AIO, you don't constantly use the touchscreen, but it comes in handy.

With the SP3 and the pen, its a powerful tool, that I think apple is missing out on.

I disagree. I used to think that way until I used Windows 8.1 on a touchscreen. It's real refreshing to be able to reach out and manipulate the GUI with touch, and even though there some minor GUI issues (such as the strange splitting up of settings between two apps), Windows 10 looks set to fix them. Using a touchscreen on a laptop and/or desktop is great and Windows 8.x does it well.

I have always stated that Windows 8 is the best OS Microsoft has made to date and I stand by that. I find it much more stable and faster than OS X at the moment.

Neither of you seem to be taking into account that OS X is not made to be touch friendly. A touch screen on a Mac right now would be horrible in my opinion. As for why Apple doesn't do it, they probably make more money on iPads than on Macbooks.

 

[Tsuchiya]

Next we hit the Apple Store to play with the new trackpads. After just coming from the Windows Store we were both trying to touch the screen. My friend asked one of the Apple employees how come Apple doesn't make it touch? He responded Apple is probably waiting for the technology to be perfected.

My friend mentioned that there were so many more people at the genius bar than there were checking out Apple products. And what's the deal with not including written model and specs of what computer or device you are looking at. Instead there are iPads which next to them that display this info, but customers were playing around with them and changing them. So to find out what computer I was on I had to go to the Apple Menu>About this Mac. So confusing in a store! If it weren't for my prior Mac experience I would have not known to do that.

We were both confused on whether it was retina or not. Oh and new track pads are nice. Hard to believe the button isn't physically moving.

Next time you get a chance, have a look through the iPad displays. The exact model you are using is usually highlighted in the product lineup near where the price is listed.

Also, while well-meaning, Specialists can only speculate when it comes to Apple design choices (e.g. touchscreen) They aren't really told any more than anyone else. They are on the "inside", but not really.

 

[Martin29]

If you think you'll like touch screens, just take a look at your tablet screen after a few hours use.. Then read the threads here about how the non reflective surface on retina screens is wearing off..

I'm certain that I'd be forever cleaning my screen, probably every hour or two, and after a short time I'd be complaining that the protective coating had worn off..

You can keep your touch screens except for the handheld devices where they are practical.

 

[Michael Goff]

If you think you'll like touch screens, just take a look at your tablet screen after a few hours use.. Then read the threads here about how the non reflective surface on retina screens is wearing off..

I'm certain that I'd be forever cleaning my screen, probably every hour or two, and after a short time I'd be complaining that the protective coating had worn off..

You can keep your touch screens except for the handheld devices where they are practical.

So the fact that Apple messed up with their non-reflective surface means touch screens on laptops are bad? That's some messed up logic.

 

[Martin29]

I don't believe they 'messed up'. It's a matter of fact that a screen coating will wear off if constantly cleaned.

Apple's screens are as good as if not better than any others I've worked with, and all I'm saying is that it would annoy me to see grubby finger marks all over mine. And if I was to clean them several times a day then they wouldn't retain the anti reflective coating for the lifetime of the machines.

And my reference was for the op to check out all the issues reported here when considering the issues.

 

[Rodster]

Never affected the Thinkpad lineup.

Thinkpads are the most reliably high-quality Windows laptop you can get.

My 2007 ThinkPad T60 is still going strong and has NO problems running Windows 8.1 with 3GB of memory. It even has a built in keyboard light.

 

[bruinsrme]

Windows 8 is very functional especially with a swipes.
There are multiple programs that allow you to switch back and forth to a windows 8 or 7 gui.

 

[maflynn]

Neither of you seem to be taking into account that OS X is not made to be touch friendly. A touch screen on a Mac right now would be horrible in my opinion. As for why Apple doesn't do it, they probably make more money on iPads than on Macbooks.

That doesn't mean Apple cannot make it touch friendly. I mean they've done some amazing stuff with OS X and iOS integration, I think they can extend the OS to really make a touch interface pretty great.

 

[Michael Goff]

That doesn't mean Apple cannot make it touch friendly. I mean they've done some amazing stuff with OS X and iOS integration, I think they can extend the OS to really make a touch interface pretty great.

They could, but they haven't shown that they want to. As I said at the end, they'd rather you buy an iPad and make more money that route.

 

[PDFierro]

That doesn't mean Apple cannot make it touch friendly. I mean they've done some amazing stuff with OS X and iOS integration, I think they can extend the OS to really make a touch interface pretty great.

On a laptop form factor? No way.

----------

Well I just found out that the Dell XPS has severe fan problems and the Asus Zenbook has hinge problems. Dell Fan issues

This is why I didn't buy yesterday--I don't trust Dell. But now back to square one.

That's another thing you get with Macs, really high build quality. That and the OS are why some of us could never go to Windows.

 

[gotluck]

On a laptop form factor? No way.

I think Apple can do it and I wager they will eventually

Integrate touch into OSX I mean