MP 7,1 What are the best upgrade options for my 2019 MP?

[realLucaR]

Hello everyone,

So I'm planning on buying a base-model Mac Pro 7,1 with the 8-core Xeon, 96GB of Ram and a Radeon Pro 580X MP. I mostly want to use it for webdesign, editing 8K video in Final Cut and coding in macOS. Also I want to dual boot Windows 11 to play some 4K games.

My plans are to install the 28-core Xeon because I found one for under 3,000$. Also, I want to install the maximum RAM possible. Here I'm also trying to figure out: Is the maximum possible really 1.5TB or can I also install 8x256GB? On the 5,1 MP I was able to install 256GB on Windows and with OpenCore also getting it recognized in macOS. So is it theoretically possible to install more than 1.5TB of memory? According to Intel the CPU supports 2TB of RAM.

As a GPU I was planning to replace the stock 580X with a 6900XT with 16GB of VRAM. Is this GPU currently supported in macOS and is there anything better I could possibly install? Also, what are the downsides of not using a MPX module like the Vega II? Furthermore, could I possibly install a MPX GPU and a normal GPU at the same time?

Also, are there any other MPX RAID modules besides the one from Promise? Paying over 2000$ just for a housing and drives seems like a veryyy bad deal. I want to install 32TB of HDD storage. If possible, I wanted to split these between 4 8TB HDDs, but I'm not too sure because this is the only MPX module I know of and it's really expensive.

Next, what Thudnerbolt PCI cards can you guys recommend? I need more ports and wanted to install some PCI solution.

And finally, what pcie solutions are there for SSDs? I want to keep Windows physically separated from macOS if possible.

Would be really glad if someone could help me out, still new here ^^

Thanks!

 

[avro707]

RX6900XT is the newest supported GPU on the MacOS side. Under Windows you have no such restrictions, though you have to measure the length of the GPUs to make sure they don't exceed the physical space inside the machine.

I imagine without the MPX module you lose a lot of thunderbolt ports. I have the W6800X 32GB MPX and decided to upgrade to dual W6800X Duo MPX (128GB total). If you use an off-the-shelf Radeon GPU you must have the power-cable set as well.


For PCI-E SSD go for this: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m2-4x4-pcie-card/overview.html

Stack it with up to 4 NVME SSDs. That's what I run on mine for Windows 11 Pro for Workstations.

 

[Regulus67]

Is this guy for real? Joins the forum and asks how to build a maxed out Mac Pro 2019

 

[realLucaR]

Is this guy for real? Joins the forum and asks how to build a maxed out Mac Pro 2019

Yeah I wanted to join macrumors for a long time now, I've read lots of articles here and decided to finally join and ask a question^^ But why is it strange to build a maxed out Mac Pro? Just wondering

 

[StuAff]

The 2TB limit is the absolute maximum for that CPU (Intel set that). No idea if that would actually work in a 2019 (don't have one, don't know if anyone's tried it). However, that configuration would require mixed sized pairs of RAM and therefore loses the performance advantage of the six-channel memory setup.

For hard drives, the R4i sounds like a waste of money to me. Just stick the hard drives in an external enclosure, or have a couple of them attached to the internal SATA.

 

[Regulus67]

Yeah I wanted to join macrumors for a long time now, I've read lots of articles here and decided to finally join and ask a question^^ But why is it strange to build a maxed out Mac Pro? Just wondering

I've seen some create an account and start a discussion. Then stop showing up.

Welcome to the forum, and it sure makes sense to join when you have a good reason to 👍
It is cool to build a maxed out Mac Pro. I think most of us who have chosen an Intel machine, did that because of the upgrade ability.

 

[Regulus67]

So I'm planning on buying a base-model Mac Pro 7,1 with the 8-core Xeon, 96GB of Ram and a Radeon Pro 580X MP.

If you live in the US, why go for a base model, when you can get a good start for a low price?
We have been discussing market offers the past month

Buy cheap 7,1 or Studio

I have not installed them yet. Still using the Vega II. Will make the change when I have the second 7.1. Also just purchased Windows 10 Pro, because I had the home version (to see if I thought Windows is ok). And I suspect Windows will ask for activation again, because of major hardware...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[StuAff]

Apart from the sage folks on here, Greg Gant's blog offers an excellent summary....

The Definitive Mac Pro 2019 7,1 Upgrade Guide

The largest/most-complete guide to all possible Mac Pro 2019 upgrades covering OS, Firmware, GPU, CPU, Storage, USB, THunderbolt and Network upgrades.

blog.greggant.com

 

[Regulus67]

Unless you find a very cheap base system, I would consider at least 16-core for a start.
A 16-core CPU could most likely be sold later. But who would buy an 8-core? I sure would not.

Depending on you plan, it could just as well be more sensible to go for a 28-core. If the combined cost is no higher than purchasing the CPU and adding it to the system.

Apple 2019 Mac Pro 28-Core Xeon W-3275M 96GB RAM 1TB SSD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB | eBay

Apple 2019 Mac Pro 28-Core Xeon W-3275M 96GB RAM 1TB SSD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB.

www.ebay.com

 

[Regulus67]

So is it theoretically possible to install more than 1.5TB of memory? According to Intel the CPU supports 2TB of RAM.

... what are the downsides of not using a MPX module like the Vega II? ...

Also, are there any other MPX RAID modules besides the one from Promise? Paying over 2000$ just for a housing and drives seems like a veryyy bad deal. I want to install 32TB of HDD storage.

I have not heard of more than 1.5TB memory.

With the MPX cards you get Thunderbolt support, even on the port next to the power button.

I only know of the Promise Pegasus R4i for 32GB internal storage. And I saw one a few months ago in the US, without any HDs. Was a good price, so you might want to look out for a similar offer. If you are not in a hurry

 

[realLucaR]

I've seen some create an account and start a discussion. Then stop showing up.

Welcome to the forum, and it sure makes sense to join when you have a good reason to 👍
It is cool to build a maxed out Mac Pro. I think most of us who have chosen an Intel machine, did that because of the upgrade ability.

Yeah that's a problem in lots of forums that people just ask once and then never show up again. But I want to join and also reply to posts and everything, since I never really shared my "knowledge" before

And yes, I wanted to go with the Intel Mac Pro because I really discourage what Apple did with the new Mac Pro M2. It's the first Mac Pro ever to not have a upgradable CPU and RAM. Also, limiting it to 192GB of RAM and not allowing any third party GPUs when most high-end GPUs can easily crush the M2 Ultra in performance is a very limiting decision. And not having Bootcamp to be able to play some high-end games is also not my thing!

 

[realLucaR]

Unless you find a very cheap base system, I would consider at least 16-core for a start.
A 16-core CPU could most likely be sold later. But who would buy an 8-core? I sure would not.

Depending on you plan, it could just as well be more sensible to go for a 28-core. If the combined cost is no higher than purchasing the CPU and adding it to the system.

Apple 2019 Mac Pro 28-Core Xeon W-3275M 96GB RAM 1TB SSD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB | eBay

Apple 2019 Mac Pro 28-Core Xeon W-3275M 96GB RAM 1TB SSD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB.

www.ebay.com

Thank you so much for that suggestion, I found a Mac Pro with a 16-core CPU for 2.399€, the one with the 8-core CPU starts at 2.299€, so only a merely 100€ difference. Also, the 16-core machine is in a mint condition so no scratches, something that the base model and a lot of Mac Pros have for whatever reason.

I might be able to sell the CPU for a couple hundred € then after I found a cheaper 28-core Xeon, because 5.000€ is really a hefty price from what I found on eBay.

I cannot find any 28-core machines at reasonable prices unfortunately, only for 13.000€ plus which is insane. Only 24-core machines are a bit cheaper, they go for around 8.000€. But selling that CPU will probably result in a loss and keeping the CPU also wouldn't allow me to fully max out the Machine

 

[realLucaR]

I have not heard of more than 1.5TB memory.

With the MPX cards you get Thunderbolt support, even on the port next to the power button.

I only know of the Promise Pegasus R4i for 32GB internal storage. And I saw one a few months ago in the US, without any HDs. Was a good price, so you might want to look out for a similar offer. If you are not in a hurry

Connecting display on the front is really inconvenient, but probably for the people that want to install 8 displays or so. On the definitive upgrade guide StuAff mentioned it said that the 28-core Xeon supports up to 2TB. Unfortunately I can't find anyone that tried that out though, probably because only a few people need it and it's usually too expensive for a little project.

The R4i is what I was looking for, but in Germany or Europe I cannot find any without drives and at reasonable prices, they mostly go for around 2.500€. Also I'm not too sure if the drives in the J2i for example are new, because from something I read online these are drives that lie around for 1-2 years, making them more unsafe to store important files on them.

Something I was wondering about though: Is the R4i similar to the RAID PCI Apple sold for the classic Mac Pros?

 

[Regulus67]

I cannot find any 28-core machines at reasonable prices unfortunately, only for 13.000€ plus which is insane. Only 24-core machines are a bit cheaper, they go for around 8.000€. But selling that CPU will probably result in a loss and keeping the CPU also wouldn't allow me to fully max out the Machine

I assumed you were in the US, as you quoted price in $. But I see now you are in Germany 👍

There is one Mac Pro for sale in Germany with 28-cores and 8TB SSD. I have been debating with myself if I should contact him and ask if he would ship to Sweden. A very rare combination for €5.500.

Apple Mac Pro 2019-28 Core, 32GB RAM, Radeon Pro 580X, 8TB SSD | eBay

Entdecken Sie Apple Mac Pro 2019-28 Core, 32GB RAM, Radeon Pro 580X, 8TB SSD in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

 

[avro707]

cannot find any 28-core machines at reasonable prices unfortunately, only for 13.000€

If those 28 core machines are the ones I’m thinking of, they are upgraded with QS CPUs. Avoid them!

It’s not said what ram you must use to get 2.0TB. Is it DDR4-3200 256GB LRDIMM? Is that supported by the processor and the Mac Pro?

Also those chips are USD$1400 ***each*** so that’s a very, very expensive gamble.

The Macrumors post on CPUs which quotes those RAM limits is very old and so far as I can tell nobody has verified the 1TB or 2TB capability in a Mac Pro 7,1.

 

[realLucaR]

If those 28 core machines are the ones I’m thinking of, they are upgraded with QS CPUs. Avoid them!

It’s not said what ram you must use to get 2.0TB. Is it DDR4-3200 256GB LRDIMM? Is that supported by the processor and the Mac Pro?

Also those chips are USD$1400 ***each*** so that’s a very, very expensive gamble.

The Macrumors post on CPUs which quotes those RAM limits is very old and so far as I can tell nobody has verified the 1TB or 2TB capability in a Mac Pro 7,1.

I also just found these the 28-core Xeon also as a "confidential" CPU, however I found a seller from China that sells these QS CPUs for around ~350USD. Why are these so cheap and why should you avoid them? The prices are really cheap so I'm wondering why these are so cheap. I also found a non-QS CPU for around 1,300$.

But I'd really like to know what's wrong with the QS CPUs as I never heard of them before and the prices are insanely cheap 😅

Here's one of the CPUs I found:

Intel Xeon Platinum 8280 ES LGA3647 CPU Processor QQ87 2.5GHz 28Core 205W 38.5MB | eBay

If you are unsure about compatibility issues.

www.ebay.com

 

[realLucaR]

I assumed you were in the US, as you quoted price in $. But I see now you are in Germany 👍

There is one Mac Pro for sale in Germany with 28-cores and 8TB SSD. I have been debating with myself if I should contact him and ask if he would ship to Sweden. A very rare combination for €5.500.

Apple Mac Pro 2019-28 Core, 32GB RAM, Radeon Pro 580X, 8TB SSD | eBay

Entdecken Sie Apple Mac Pro 2019-28 Core, 32GB RAM, Radeon Pro 580X, 8TB SSD in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

I also looked at that machine, however I'm gonna ask him if there's a QS CPU installed, because I wouldn't buy something that someone tampered with as I had that problem in the past that people didn't know what they're doing and then send out damaged machines, but 5.500 euros seems like a very good deal!

If you want to buy the Mac Pro you can just ask him, I only know from experience that shipping to Sweden especially with these high-value items can be very expensive

 

[Regulus67]

I also looked at that machine, however I'm gonna ask him if there's a QS CPU installed, because I wouldn't buy something that someone tampered with as I had that problem in the past that people didn't know what they're doing and then send out damaged machines, but 5.500 euros seems like a very good deal!

If you want to buy the Mac Pro you can just ask him, I only know from experience that shipping to Sweden especially with these high-value items can be very expensive

These are test CPUs, called ES (Engineering Sample) and QS (Quality Sample), for pre-production of the final product.
It is also illegal to sell those. And there is no guarantee they will function properly.
So I would also avoid those CPUs, as avro707 said.

I am also very sceptical of a trader in France that sells "new" machines on eBay. But looks suspicious, as the boxes are opened. Why would anyone open a box just to look at it, or take photos? Perhaps modified like avro707 mentioned.

I am not going to ask the German seller, as I have ordered a 24-core CPU. And that leaves only the 8TB SSD of value to me. I'll keep an eye out, and see if I can find an 8TB SSD kit one day instead.

 

[Regulus67]

Here's one of the CPUs I found:

Xeon Platinum 8280 Processors are different, and only boost to 4GHz anyway.

Cascade Lake Xeons are going to be the final LGA3647 Xeons for workstation and server Systems . It's end of the road and no upgrading will be possible .

Some PC boards support both the Cascade Lake and the earlier Skylake Xeons , so it's possible to go backwards in the PC space .

Your best bet is to wait the three to five years from date of first deployment for data centers to muster out the old Systems and wait for used Cascade Lake Xeons to wind up on eBay when liquidators / recyclers part out these Systems . Then , you'll get some affordable silicon .

But only the W-series Cascade Lake Xeons will work properly in our Mac Pro 7,1 machines and those chips are rarer than other Cascade Lakes . Other installed Cascade Lake Xeons will not survive a NVRAM refresh .

The W series chips are so rare I sold the very first one on eBay . It sold at full Intel MSRP for a new processor in four days and was a previously used chip to boot . And , the buyer pleaded with me to sell him some more chips if I had them in inventory . I had only one .

So , these W series chips are going to be in demand for some time now ... which will push up the price higher than normal even for used processors .

I would avoid the Platinum CPU

 

[Regulus67]

Yeah , the W series C.L. Xeon processor is only for single processor system configurations . And higher performance single processor servers / workstations , too , due to the larger number of processor generated PCIe lanes ( 64 for the W Xeons vs 48 for all other C.L. Xeons ) .

 

[avro707]

also looked at that machine, however I'm gonna ask him if there's a QS CPU installed

QS and ES are non production model CPUs and may be unreliable.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Unless you find a very cheap base system, I would consider at least 16-core for a start.
A 16-core CPU could most likely be sold later. But who would buy an 8-core? I sure would not.

Depending on you plan, it could just as well be more sensible to go for a 28-core. If the combined cost is no higher than purchasing the CPU and adding it to the system.

Apple 2019 Mac Pro 28-Core Xeon W-3275M 96GB RAM 1TB SSD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB | eBay

Apple 2019 Mac Pro 28-Core Xeon W-3275M 96GB RAM 1TB SSD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB.

www.ebay.com

I dont remember if this is an issue. But the 24 and 28 core machines are the only ones that can handle 1.5TB or ram. I think the lower CPU options max out at 768GB. What I don't remember is this. Does that mean the non 24/28 core machines come with fewer ram slots? Or doe they come with as many ram slots, and just the addition of the 24/28 core CPU is enough to get more RAM.

Or in other words, if you start with a non 24/28 core CPU, and upgrade the CPU, do you have just half the RAM slots, and as such, will not be able to get above 768GB of ram because it has half the slots?

 

[avro707]

I dont remember if this is an issue. But the 24 and 28 core machines are the only ones that can handle 1.5TB or ram. I think the lower CPU options max out at 768GB. What I don't remember is this. Does that mean the non 24/28 core machines come with fewer ram slots? Or doe they come with as many ram slots, and just the addition of the 24/28 core CPU is enough to get more RAM.

No, all machines have the same 12 RAM slots, it's just that the non "M" CPUs don't support 1.5TB RAM (or 2.0TB according to Intel).

A W3245M 16 core would also take theoretically 2TB maximum RAM (or 1.5TB by Apple limits), but Apple doesn't include that CPU, they use only the W3245 which support 768GB (Apple) or 1TB (according to Intel).

Below the W3245M the other CPUs are all lower maximum RAM (W3245, W3235 and W3225).

Some of the lower CPUs also run with lower memory speeds too.

The available CPUs when ordering from Apple:

W3225 (8 core)
W3235 (12 core)
W3245 (16 core)
W3265M (24 core)
W3275M (28 core)

The "M" versions (W3245M, W3265M and W3275M) are all pretty rare and expensive.

Also note the W3175X does not work in the MP 7.1.

This following topic is good reading: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-mac-pro.2216212/?post=28081956#post-28081956

See how some of the unsupported processors (eg Xeon Gold 6212U) do work briefly but then stop completely later and the machine won't even start. So those are off the table.

 

[Regulus67]

Some of the lower CPUs also run with lower memory speeds too.

Only the W3225 8-core CPU run at the lower 2666MHz memory speed. And it Turbo Boost up to 4.0GHz.
The other Xeons in the W-serie Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
Apple installed 2933MHz memory in all the machines. You would have to purchase the lower speed from 3rd party.

Thanks for the link avro707. I had not read in full yet, only the last few postings, which put me off. But I see now it started pretty interesting

 

[avro707]

only the last few postings, which put me off

If you haven’t done the CPU upgrade yet, don’t be scared. Just follow Apple instructions to the letter and you’ll be fine.

Make sure you use a small adjustable torque wrench or the special Wera adjustable torque driver to tighten the heat sink screws.

The 7,1 is a beautifully designed machine that is very easy to work on.

This was the torque wrench I used for tightening the heatsink screws, straight from bicycle toolbox.:

From "Pro" brand which I think is within the enormous Shimano empire these days. Mine has adjustability from 1.0 to 15Nm.

The Torx bits were from Amazon and I used an adaptor to fit them. They are 150mm long, which is important. Also useful is a very bright light so you can see the tops of the screws - they are deep inside the heatsink and hard to see otherwise. I just used a 1600 Lumen bicycle light for that.

That process of fixing the heatsink back in place seems pretty crucial that it is done to specs.