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Don't panic

macrumors 603
Jan 30, 2004
5,541
697
having a drink at Milliways
This is a series I really like.

The first book - The Lies of Locke Lamora - was excellent - absolutely brilliant. Just rollicking and gripping from start to finish.

In 'Red Seas', granted, it started somewhat slowly, but I'd argue that once they put to sea the book really took off, and became that cliché of a book that could not be put down. And, besides, I must say that I loved Zamira Drakasha - the pirate stuff and sea battles were outstanding. And Jean's relationship with Ezri Delmastro was wonderful.

Re Republic of Thieves, hm. I find myself sort of agreeing with you. While I love the backstories, - especially anything which includes Chains - I prefer them to have some sort of heft.

What could you not stand about Sabetha? Their relationship doesn't bother me, because I like the fact that Scott Lynch is capable of having a completely screwed up hero. And what are your thoughts about Locke's background?

--some spoilers to follow--

i found her very disappointing (maybe it was unavoidable) after the build-up in the first two books. but she is annoying as heck, very shallow and overall unlikeable. and i am not sure it was written to be like that on purpose. plus, to be this great love story there is no chemistry between the two.

as far as the revelations about locke origins, i think they detract a lot from his character, who goes from being a smart kickass nobody who raises on his own merits, to being the Secretely Predestined Hero™.
how cliche'. and totally unnecessary and out-of-tune with the rest of the story. i am guessing it is going to be central to the next book(s), but that completely changes the bases of the story.
i didn't like the finale because it renders the entire actions of the Gentleman Bastards completely pointless. they were already not very relevant because basically there was nothing at stake for them, except bragging rights vs sabetah, but even the final outcome of the contest, which could have been interesting to explore in the light of how the bondsmagi would have reacted to the forced tie, was voided but patience's massacre. and then you have the out-of-the-blue awakening of the falconer, which has no premises in the rest of the story. a deus-ex-machina with the sole intent to set up the next book

the writing is good, and some parts are clever, but the overall storyline -especially the 'present' one- is extremely weak
 
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Macky-Mac

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2004
3,704
2,796
Just starting "Spring Snow" which is the first of Yukio Mishima's "The Sea of Fertility" four part series
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
--some spoilers to follow--

i found her very disappointing (maybe it was unavoidable) after the build-up in the first two books. but she is annoying as heck, very shallow and overall unlikeable. and i am not sure it was written to be like that on purpose. plus, to be this great love story there is no chemistry between the two.

as far as the revelations about locke origins, i think they detract a lot from his character, who goes from being a smart kickass nobody who raises on his own merits, to being the Secretely Predestined Hero™.
how cliche'. and totally unnecessary and out-of-tune with the rest of the story. i am guessing it is going to be central to the next book(s), but that completely changes the bases of the story.
i didn't like the finale because it renders the entire actions of the Gentleman Bastards completely pointless. they were already not very relevant because basically there was nothing at stake for them, except bragging rights vs sabetah, but even the final outcome of the contest, which could have been interesting to explore in the light of how the bondsmagi would have reacted to the forced tie, was voided but patience's massacre. and then you have the out-of-the-blue awakening of the falconer, which has no premises in the rest of the story. a deus-ex-machina with the sole intent to set up the next book

the writing is good, and some parts are clever, but the overall storyline -especially the 'present' one- is extremely weak

Very interesting.

One of the things I like about Scott Lynch is his ability to write good, strong female characters - and not necessarily nice ones, but quite believable ones. A great many male authors completely screw up when attempting to write women, even when they start with the best of intentions.

Anyway, re romance, is it that there has to be chemistry in a 'great love story', or, rather, is this some sort of obsession that Locke has been nursing and nurturing for years that might not quite be returned in the way he imagines?

Reading the book, I never got the sense that Sabetha returned Locke's regard to anything like the same extent; they were colleagues, competitors, friends, with a bit of frisson and sort of fancying each other - because they were both so good at why they did. But I am not so sure that this is Sabetha's great passion - she 'gets' Locke, and connects with him, and has some fondness for him, but nothing I read suggested that she loved him, whereas he has been obsessed with her for years. Sometimes, those who are obsessed see what they want to see rather than what is in front of their eyes.

Besides, I think it possible that Scott Lynch is one of those writers who may not do 'romantic' love terribly well, - or, it is not the focus of his relationships - or, rather, I think he portrays other forms of relationships and love a lot better, - friendships, family love (I loved Zamira Drakasha's scenes with her children, that was brilliant), loyalty, respect, fear, coercion, - and is able to conceive of a world where women - or, rather, heroines - are not defined solely by their role as someone fancied by the hero.

We never saw what motivates Sabetha; although that is something which may become clearer in later books.
 
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Don't panic

macrumors 603
Jan 30, 2004
5,541
697
having a drink at Milliways
I agree that she is locke's obsession, rather than proper love, but in some parts she seems like she is in love, in other she doesn't care or is completely manipulative, and she really doesn't get him (e.g., she goes on and on -even after 20 years!-, about the redhair thing as the reason he wants her). but it is not part of a well-developed, conflicted character, and not particularly fun to read, a part for a few witticisms.
unlike some of the other (excellent) female characters, who are quite well developed and engaging even in much smaller 'parts' (zamira ezri, but also selendri or nazca) , she gets a full book, but we barely know her. maybe he should have written the 'play' storyline mostly from her POV, that would have been more interesting
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
I agree that she is locke's obsession, rather than proper love, but in some parts she seems like she is in love, in other she doesn't care or is completely manipulative, and she really doesn't get him (e.g., she goes on and on -even after 20 years!-, about the redhair thing as the reason he wants her). but it is not part of a well-developed, conflicted character, and not particularly fun to read, a part for a few witticisms.
unlike some of the other (excellent) female characters, who are quite well developed and engaging even in much smaller 'parts' (zamira ezri, but also selendri or nazca) , she gets a full book, but we barely know her. maybe he should have written the 'play' storyline mostly from her POV, that would have been more interesting

But I think we haven't yet seen her point of view; and my sense is that she is fond of him, is happy to have a fling with him - they 'get' one another - or, rather, Sabetha 'gets' Locke - in a way that nobody else (apart possibly from Jean) does, but I don't see her as actually loving him, or being in love with him.

To me, the guarded relationship between Jean and Sabetha was interesting.
 

JoshMKB24

macrumors 6502a
Jan 5, 2013
520
44
Midwest
I am now on "The Residence: Inside the Private World Of the White House"

Its stories from the White House staff about the 1st families over the years. Not surprisingly they all hated Hillary and the Secret Service to punish their own would assign them to her detail haha
 

Don't panic

macrumors 603
Jan 30, 2004
5,541
697
having a drink at Milliways
But I think we haven't yet seen her point of view; and my sense is that she is fond of him, is happy to have a fling with him - they 'get' one another - or, rather, Sabetha 'gets' Locke - in a way that nobody else (apart possibly from Jean) does, but I don't see her as actually loving him, or being in love with him.

To me, the guarded relationship between Jean and Sabetha was interesting.


i guess we have a difference of opinion on this one :)

meanwhile i finished reading (electronically, not my preferred medium)
Seveneves, Neal Stephenson

113.jpg


another great book by Stephenson (and another big one).
great science fiction and society development. very thought-provoking.

Cryptonomicon remains my favorite if his books, but Anthem and this are also very good.
i like how each is so very different from the others.

and this one has a ton of important female characters

there are some logical flaws (IMO) and the 3 different parts of the book could be balanced better, but a great read
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
i guess we have a difference of opinion on this one :)

meanwhile i finished reading (electronically, not my preferred medium)
Seveneves, Neal Stephenson

113.jpg


another great book by Stephenson (and another big one).
great science fiction and society development. very thought-provoking.

Cryptonomicon remains my favorite if his books, but Anthem and this are also very good.
i like how each is so very different from the others.

and this one has a ton of important female characters

there are some logical flaws (IMO) and the 3 different parts of the book could be balanced better, but a great read

Not a fan of electronic media for reading books, either, (newspapers are different) although I can see the convenience of such a device.

Haven't read - or seen - this, although I have liked quite a few of the books written by Neal Stephenson. And agreed, Cryptonomicon was superb.
 

AVBeatMan

macrumors 603
Nov 10, 2010
5,968
3,849
Not a fan of electronic media for reading books, either, (newspapers are different) although I can see the convenience of such a device.

Haven't read - or seen - this, although I have liked quite a few of the books written by Neal Stephenson. And agreed, Cryptonomicon was superb.

A bit off topic here but I pick up on your comment re newspapers and electronic devices.

I currently subscribe to the Times and Telegraph but am thinking of ditching both for the free Apple News and Flipboard (etc). It's (and is) taken me ages to switch from the physical newspaper to digital and I still find I read more with a physical paper than digital (I find it harder to know where you're up to!)

Just wondered what your view is and did you make a similar transition?

I bought an iPad mini to take to work with me for this purpose. I think newspapers and their digital editions are struggling and free digital news will be the way forward.
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
A bit off topic here but I pick up on your comment re newspapers and electronic devices.

I currently subscribe to the Times and Telegraph but am thinking of ditching both for the free Apple News and Flipboard (etc). It's (and is) taken me ages to switch from the physical newspaper to digital and I still find I read more with a physical paper than digital (I find it harder to know where you're up to!)

Just wondered what your view is and did you make a similar transition?

I bought an iPad mini to take to work with me for this purpose. I think newspapers and their digital editions are struggling and free digital news will be the way forward.

Well, when I am at home, when and where possible, I prefer to read print versions of a paper; physically, it is far nicer, and much more enjoyable. More relaxing on my eyes, too.

Moreover, you read the print editions differently, you can savour them, and think about them while reading - whereas, online, you devour a page, but you tend to 'enjoy' the actual physical experience of reading a lot less (at least, I do).

Now, I had an iPad mini - actually I had two, at different times, as colleagues had praised it so highly, but I gave them both away, one to each brother. Yes, it is a nice device, but I found it infuriating to use.

If I must read something online, I will read it from my trusty MBA.

No, I did not make a similar transition - and nor would I ever contemplate obtaining my news in its entirety from a business such as Apple.

Besides, I value being able to access a great many different sources when checking out a news story.

Re subscriptions, while I am an avid reader of the Guardian (and may yet subscribe), - I buy hard copies when I am at home - I will admit to mulling over a subscription to the Telegraph. This is because, although I disagree with much of what it writes, at the same time, a lot of it is beautifully written, and it does touch on stuff that you will not find elsewhere, and give a political perspective that you will not find if you remain in the intellectual company solely of those whose arguments you find more congenial.

As long as Mr Murdoch owns The Times, he will not receive anything from me.

Now, I do subscribe to both the Economist and Foreign Policy, and that means that I can receive material in print, and in online formats. However, there are other sources I subscribe to which are strictly online.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Catcher in the Rye, one of three classics I'll be reading for my Critiquing Literature class. It's perfect for the high school, young college entrant and very interesting to read as someone well past that age.

'Someone well past that age'. I know the feeling.

Well, I have no doubt that had I read that book as an alienated teen, I would have thought someone was speaking directly to me with devastating and searing honesty and insight.

However, I didn't read it for the first time as a teen; instead, I read it in my mid twenties, and I will confess that my instinct on closing the book was to apply a well placed boot to the backside of Holden Caulfield.

Not only did I no longer - and could I no longer - identify with him, in point of fact, worse still, he intensely irritated me. That was the day (well, actually, night, to be honest) when I ruefully realised that I could no longer describe myself as an adolescent in my mind.
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
A book which arrived with the post, and one which I had my eye on.

Called "Six Weeks - The Short and Gallant Life of the British Officer in the First World War" it is written by John Lewis-Stempel.
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Currently I am reading two books:

A Passage to India by E. M. Forster

Palimpsest, a memoir by Gore Vidal

A wonderfully interesting - and thought provoking book by E. M. Forster.

Re Gore Vidal, I always thought he was one of these funny, clever, and exceedingly acerbic individuals, possessed of a sharp tongue and sharper pen; surface wit, and evident taste and flair, but little depth and no compassion whatsoever.
 

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macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
I would argue that there is depth, but I agree he is not very compassionate--he comes off as cold in almost everything he writes. But I think maybe that's why I like him.

Well, I think there is a certain distinct difference to be drawn between 'cold' - where 'cold' means rational and detached (which I also tend to like sometimes) - and 'cold' as a way of expressing contempt for the human condition. My sense is that Gore Vidal falls into the latter category.

I read some of his books a good few years ago, and decided, that I didn't much like him;

I don't mind writing that acknowledges and owns nastiness - nastiness is human, - and I welcome his almost sadistically gleeful delight in puncturing cultural icons - but I do mind writing that elevates clever nastiness while almost entirely lacking in a sense of compassion.
 

ThisBougieLife

Suspended
Jan 21, 2016
3,259
10,664
Northern California
Oh I have no doubt that Vidal was a misanthrope (I'm not, but I can enjoy the writing of one to some extent). He may never have been so blunt about it, but I believe it shows through his writing.
 
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