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What Camera?
- Thread starter Dark
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Dark said:
You would get the same results from the d70 as its the same sensor (80% sure its the same sensor anyway, cant be bothered to look).
The Nikon d70 is slightly bigger and slightly better build quality (it also looks really, really nice), the canon has more features and better picture quality (As shown above). When i first read about the d70 being better build quality i went to check them out side by side, i was expecting the Canon to be awful quality, when it REALLY isn't, its sturdy but light, It feels a lot better with the grip on it, not that much worse then the 20D (although smaller) the D70 is equal in terms of feel to the 20D and a Bit better than the 350D.
In terms of noise and ISO the Canon wins fairly convincingly, although I' sure the nikon fans will say this is false. One thing is that you dont even get ISO100 on the Nikon, thats not a great thing in my opinion.
When people say there is Zero Difference between 6 and 8 megapixels, they are wrong. There isnt a huge difference but there IS a difference
Although every time i here Ken Rockwells hideous comments about 4 and 16 megapixels being roughly the same... i have to chuckle.
Canon and Nikon have some really good lenses, however i feel canon are much better at the long end and equal at the wide end (Better if you want to spend LOTS of money).
EDIT: Although, Nikon have released the D200 that might be worth a look. Either way you get a good camera. I would wait to buy this until you see the results though as they have crammed another 4 million pixels onto the same size sensor (Probably increasing already 'not great' noise levels)
DISCLAIMER: the above recommendation is based on fact but is to be taken as opinion only. If you disagree with this opinion good... Please ignore this and don't bother to quote me.
Well I didn't LITERALLY mean zero difference, but if you look at the sample images, its just 300 pixels or so in the horizontal and vertical directions. If we were comparing 6MP (D70s) against a 10 or 12MP camera, then sure, that would be something to consider very closely.
And yeah, the 20D is much better quality and much MUCH nicer to hold. I held it when I went to Sydney to look at cameras, which I described earlier. I'd get definitely get THAT one if I were to get a Canon.
You're really not going to lose with either camera. Opinions are split quite evenly as well judging from my experience going to 7 stores in one day, and from this board, and so 50% of photographers are going to disagree with you no matter what.
Anyway, hope you enjoy the Rebel XT.
You've gotta post photos you take here so that we can criticize you. 
i just got myself a nikon d50. why? Because i have nikon lenses. If i had Canon lenses i would get a Canon.
I don't think it makes much of a difference to the amateur or semi-pro.
The most important part of the camera is the lens.
The most important part of photography is light.
Before you get a camera, get a book. One that shows you, for example, what an f-stop is and how to use it properly.
If you don't learn the theory behind the basic functions of a d/slr, you'll just shoot in automatic mode, and you might as well get a compact if you want to do that.
I don't think it makes much of a difference to the amateur or semi-pro.
The most important part of the camera is the lens.
The most important part of photography is light.
Before you get a camera, get a book. One that shows you, for example, what an f-stop is and how to use it properly.
If you don't learn the theory behind the basic functions of a d/slr, you'll just shoot in automatic mode, and you might as well get a compact if you want to do that.
I am quite thrilled with the specs of the Nikon D200. We have yet to see a gallery of images from a production version of the D200 at various ISOs, particularly at 400, 800, and 1600 where it really gets interesting. Nikon went with a CCD at 10.2 MP, developed a new CAM-1000 autofocusing system that might rival the D2X, redeveloped the user-interface with high-quality fonts and menus, and boosted just about every other spec known to mankind. All for $1699. If image quality holds up, this becomes a no-brainer and becomes the digital version of my F100 film camera. Now we wait until December 15...
ITASOR said:
I just posted some comments on my search for a new camera that may be interesting. In a nut shell, what is good depends a lot on your goals. I want point and shoot size with full manual controls, AA batteries, great sensor and perfect lens. Oh, and not very expensive. Gotta make some compromizes on that list I think...
I ended up ordering the FujiFilm FinePix E900 this afternoon and will have by next week so I can offer some feedback then. This is an inbetween camera. The thread below explains my reasoning:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1925753#post1925753
i vote for a 10d on the canon side...for 700 bucks u can get the body PLUS a battery grip which can be so important....
remember...its usually the indian...and not the arrow...
but on that note...remember to buy good glass!
remember...its usually the indian...and not the arrow...
but on that note...remember to buy good glass!
I really like my Rebel XT. Like others have said though, regardless of which camera you buy, don't cheap out on the lens. Get a good lens!!!
Dark said:
For someone who's going to be at least a serious amateur or go Pro, when it comes to SLR's, your pragmatic choice is between Nikon or Canon product lines, since these are the two companies with very broad and deep product lines.
Best bet here is to look firsthand at the current body offerings and see what "fits your hand" best, as well as the design of the controls interface...see what you like and what doesn't make sense for you.
It is important to look at both, because what you're really doing isn't buying a camera: you're really buying into a lens system for the next 10-20 years, and if you get into it seriously, you can very quickly have more money invested in your lenses than in your camera bodies.
Personally, I made the jump from an old manual SLR (a Pentax K-1000) to an autofocus SLR around 10 years ago, and I ended up going with Canon over the Nikon, so my lens mount was chosen for me at that time.
Over the past several years, I've slowly bought around $1500 worth of glass for that film camera, so that became a cost factor when I decided to get a dSLR quite recently: it was a question of "Spend X for Canon Y versus Spending (X+$1500) for Nikon Z?".
From this perspective, the technical performance differences between the Canon vs Nikon dSLR's would have to be great enough for me to overcome the value of my existing lens investments...as time goes on and I buy more (and more expensive) lenses, this bar gets raised higher and higher.
So while I'm using Canon ... and will continue to buy Canon in the future ... there's a financial reason underlying why I'm doing so. Fortunately, Canon's arguably as good as Nikon (or better), so its not a hard decision to make.
You're approaching this with a clean slate, so this isn't a constraint for you - - that is, until you buy any system. As such, you'll want to consider the future in your decisions now, with a lot of it being to prevent a brand that might be a dead-end or have limited future flexibility/utility. This is why so many people end up choosing Canon/Nikon.
Getting to specific recommendations, since you already have a non-SLR digitial camera, I'd be inclined to suggest that you might want to actually consider a film 35mm SLR. There's a lot of great stuff that a digital camera can do today because of its immediacy of feedback and ability to easily correct bad exposures and so forth (including your current point-n-shoot), but shooting film may help you for the very reason that it doesn't have these things, so it will force you to be more thoughtful and disciplined about your composition and exposure choices. Think of it as "Tough Love" to really make you learn the craft.
Also, the technology on film cameras is quite mature and hasn't changed much over the past few years much: a good body is a good investment that won't depreciate overnight and be completely obsolete in 18 months. This is why the item that's now on the top of my "short list" is an EOS-3 body.
Finally, there's some very good how-to books written by John Shaw. The basic introduction section in each book is pretty much identical, but he covers some really good ground, plus has some great tips for less common subjects (snow, etc). Look through what Amazon has and put a couple of them on your Wish List for Christmas.
-hh
PS: I'm also in New Jersey (northwestern), so if you do end up getting the Rebel XT, let me know...I can loan you some of my lenses if you want to experiment and/or go up to the Water Gap or someplace for a photo shoot.
Rebel XT on order...
I've a Rebel XT black body and Sigma lens on order at a local camera shop, since most reviews suggest the std canon lens isn't very good. I'll then be able to judge the D70s and Rebel XT together for myself. This combo actually works out slightly cheaper than the standard Canon kit.
I had a play with the D70s last week and it felt very solid, fairly heavy in fact and a little on the large side. Size is a real consideration for me as I want to be able to pack it easily on rides and trips - as far as I can tell from pictures, the Rebel's quite a lot small than the D70s.
I had a 35mm Minolta SLR until I gave it to my Dad last year. It took nice pics, but I could never remember the manual settings I'd used for the 'cool' pics. I'm hoping I'll learn quicker with the digital.
I've a Rebel XT black body and Sigma lens on order at a local camera shop, since most reviews suggest the std canon lens isn't very good. I'll then be able to judge the D70s and Rebel XT together for myself. This combo actually works out slightly cheaper than the standard Canon kit.
I had a play with the D70s last week and it felt very solid, fairly heavy in fact and a little on the large side. Size is a real consideration for me as I want to be able to pack it easily on rides and trips - as far as I can tell from pictures, the Rebel's quite a lot small than the D70s.
I had a 35mm Minolta SLR until I gave it to my Dad last year. It took nice pics, but I could never remember the manual settings I'd used for the 'cool' pics. I'm hoping I'll learn quicker with the digital.
I have to second the XT...it's a great camera. The D70s is really competing with the 20d so they don't really compare well. In any case, don't order from expresscameras. Do a search on resellerratings for any place you might order from. I wouldn't recommend buying from bestbuy as you'll end up spending much more than you'd like. Order from someplace like buydig.com and then buy a mack warranty to cover the camera if you're concerned about it. I second the getting a good lens...the kit lens is really not very good (not bad and will get you started but you'll be upgrading eventually). I've had a dSLR for 5 months and started with a kit lens...now I have:
Tamron 28-75 XR Di LD
Tamron 19-35
Canon EF 50 1.4
Tamron 28-75 XR Di LD
Tamron 19-35
Canon EF 50 1.4
I will share a few thoughts, and this will be very biased because I have never used the Nikon D70 or any other Nikon DSLR. I did however get to spend the evening with the Canon Rebel XT last homecoming my ex-yearbook advisor came and asked me to get some photos of her granddaugther. I took various photos while I had use of that camera, the camera was set in its "Program" mode. It has the basic (35-55mm lens I believe) lens kit on it. I have MUCH MUCH to learn about photography, but I really liked the Rebel XT. It did end up taking great photos, a lot better than other cameras that I have used. Too bad I can't afford one myself.
Friday I got a Fuji FinePix E900. I like it. It is a good pocket camera. After I've used it a bit more I'll post comments.
On the pre-order list at my local camera store for the D200....this has been a long time coming and I hope that none of us will be disappointed! Certainly from everything I've read so far this new camera will be a very nice addition to the Nikon line and will bridge the gap between the D70/D70s and the D2x... I think that there are many of us out here who have loved the D70/D70s and who are now ready to move upward beyond that but who aren't exactly willing to plunk down $$$ for a professional-level camera body. And, as has been noted in this thread, once you get into a DSLR and lenses, you're really not talking about a "camera," you're talking about a "system," and that usually means a substantial investment....therefore many people who have been using the D70/D70s have not decided to jump ship and go to another brand (ie, Canon) because of all the money already put into Nikon lenses. Others, like me, remain loyal to Nikon because we just plain prefer the way Nikon cameras feel and respond and/or are happy with the selection of lenses available....
This isn't to say that Nikon or Canon or any other manufacturer doesn't make mistakes here-and-there: I've got some unused Coolpixes sitting in the camera closet that just never did fulfill my needs (while others --older models -- did).... This past summer when I was in a situation where I wanted to buy a small P&S camera I moved away from the Nikon Coolpix line altogether and went with a Casio. Point here being that while brand loyalty is nice, sometimes you DO have to realize that a particular manufacturer may not be producing what you really need...and so you look elsewhere.
The bottom line here is that choosing a camera and system is a very individual decision based on many factors and is not one to be taken lightly.
OTB
This isn't to say that Nikon or Canon or any other manufacturer doesn't make mistakes here-and-there: I've got some unused Coolpixes sitting in the camera closet that just never did fulfill my needs (while others --older models -- did).... This past summer when I was in a situation where I wanted to buy a small P&S camera I moved away from the Nikon Coolpix line altogether and went with a Casio. Point here being that while brand loyalty is nice, sometimes you DO have to realize that a particular manufacturer may not be producing what you really need...and so you look elsewhere.
The bottom line here is that choosing a camera and system is a very individual decision based on many factors and is not one to be taken lightly.
OTB
On the Brink said:
Nice. A ways above my experience. The Rebel XT I have on order will take some growing into personally. I've a friend who loves his D70s, but it's too 'big' and heavy for my needs - which the Rebel XT seems to address well.